Chest

[ipsilateral]

Hey guys, need a little help with an iron strapped wooden chest. Trying to determine age and function. Wood seems to be hard with an unusual grain. Straps/hinges/handles look hand forged. Handles on sides are affixed with flathead screws. There is an unusual wooden wing on the back that must have some function in shipping(?). What is it? A strongbox? A shipping box? Any idea on the age based on hardware or styling? Measurements are metric. Approximately: 26" x 17.5" x 17".

Thanks! Nate

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[taz42o]

is my eyes failing me in old age lol ?
what everyone is calling dovetail joints I am not seeing
a dovetail is cut at a slant so the 2 peices fit together and do not slip apart.
but the joints I see are square cut and no dove angle so it would have the have the straps there to give it strength.
the chest to me looks like one that would set in front of someplace to drop off things like milk , bread, or whatever in the old days when things was delivered and not one for traveling arround with.

Dove tail joints are square on one side and look like finger joints. The other side you see the angles.
If you look at post #15 in this thread you will see a good pic of the angled side.

Unless you can tell they are router cut (witch they are not) it is irrelevant to age because they are still hand cutting them now, so hand cut does not necessarily mean old but router cut does mean newer. It only works one way as a dating tool.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Diving for Pleasure and Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[Bigcypresshunter]

is my eyes failing me in old age lol ?
what everyone is calling dovetail joints I am not seeing
a dovetail is cut at a slant so the 2 peices fit together and do not slip apart.
but the joints I see are square cut and no dove angle so it would have the have the straps there to give it strength.

Dove tail joints are square on one side and look like finger joints. The other side you see the angles.
If you look at post #15 in this thread you will see a good pic of the angled side.

Unless you can tell they are router cut (witch they are not) it is irrelevant to age because they are still hand cutting them now, so hand cut does not necessarily mean old but router cut does mean newer. It only works one way as a dating tool.

Hello taz. What about the diagram I keep posting? The older dovetails appear to be quite different with the pins narrower than the dovetails but I may be missing something.

 

[ivan salis]

big cy in your post #31 * - there is a flur de lis type end design on the bands --not on the one being IDed ***--often "colonial era" mexican made chest have spanish type designs / patterns on them, is the point I was getting at.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

big cy in your post #31 * - there is a flur de lis type end design on the bands --not on the one being IDed ***--often "colonial era" mexican made chest have spanish type designs / patterns on them, is the point I was getting at.

Point taken the Spanish colonial chests have designed metal. This chest has none of that.

 

[taz42o]

is my eyes failing me in old age lol ?
what everyone is calling dovetail joints I am not seeing
a dovetail is cut at a slant so the 2 peices fit together and do not slip apart.
but the joints I see are square cut and no dove angle so it would have the have the straps there to give it strength.

Dove tail joints are square on one side and look like finger joints. The other side you see the angles.
If you look at post #15 in this thread you will see a good pic of the angled side.

Unless you can tell they are router cut (witch they are not) it is irrelevant to age because they are still hand cutting them now, so hand cut does not necessarily mean old but router cut does mean newer. It only works one way as a dating tool.

Hello taz. What about the diagram I keep posting? The older dovetails appear to be quite different with the pins narrower than the dovetails but I may be missing something.

That only tells you the dove tails are hand cut ,It does not mean its old . I could hand cut narrow pin dovetails right now. and many people still do.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Hello taz. What about the diagram I keep posting? The older dovetails appear to be quite different with the pins narrower than the dovetails but I may be missing something.

That only tells you the dove tails are hand cut ,It does not mean its old . I could hand cut narrow pin dovetails right now. and many people still do.

So it appears that someone has hand cut dovetails (according to you) but made them look like the modern type? Doesnt that tell us something? Im referring to the OPs chest in question.

Maybe you could explain because I must still be missing something. Thanks.

 

[taz42o]

Hello taz. What about the diagram I keep posting? The older dovetails appear to be quite different with the pins narrower than the dovetails but I may be missing something.

That only tells you the dove tails are hand cut ,It does not mean its old . I could hand cut narrow pin dovetails right now. and many people still do.

So it appears that someone has hand cut dovetails (according to you) but made them look like the modern type? Doesnt that tell us something? Im referring to the OPs chest in question.

Maybe you could explain because I must still be missing something. Thanks.

All I meant was handcut does not necessarily mean old. If that was the case those you tube vids would have to be pre 1860.
The chest posted appears to me to have scribe marks (not needed for a router) and over cuts (from a handsaw) making them handcut no matter what the width. but I could be seeing things wrong maybe scratches and cracks?
The only reason to make narrow pins that I know would be fewer hand cuts but if you want to take the time you can make evenly spaced cuts by hand same as with a router.
You cannot convince me something is old only because it has hand cut small pin dovetails.
That said ,I dont know if the chest is old or newer. But you are most likely right that its newer than 1860.
Hope you understand BigC ,I dont know how else to explain.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Hello taz. What about the diagram I keep posting? The older dovetails appear to be quite different with the pins narrower than the dovetails but I may be missing something.

That only tells you the dove tails are hand cut ,It does not mean its old . I could hand cut narrow pin dovetails right now. and many people still do.

So it appears that someone has hand cut dovetails (according to you) but made them look like the modern type? Doesnt that tell us something? Im referring to the OPs chest in question.

Maybe you could explain because I must still be missing something. Thanks.

All I meant was handcut does not necessarily mean old. If that was the case those you tube vids would have to be pre 1860.
The chest posted appears to me to have scribe marks (not needed for a router) and over cuts (from a handsaw) making them handcut no matter what the width. but I could be seeing things wrong maybe scratches and cracks?
The only reason to make narrow pins that I know would be fewer hand cuts but if you want to take the time you can make evenly spaced cuts by hand same as with a router.
You cannot convince me something is old only because it has hand cut small pin dovetails.
That said ,I dont know if the chest is old or newer. But you are most likely right that its newer than 1860.
Hope you understand BigC ,I dont know how else to explain.

I understand what you are saying but I thought the evenly spaced dovetails where a more modern style and that would help us date the chest, whether hand cut or not doesnt matter.


At this point I do not know for sure either way but I am trying to find any clues to help us date the chest.

One last question I hope you understand where Im going here. What type of dovetail is older?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Heres a link on dovetails I dont know if it helps any. http://www.harpgallery.com/library/dovetails.htm

 

[RELICDUDE07]

http://www.1stdibs.com/furniture_item_detail.php?id=487118

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

http://www.1stdibs.com/furniture_item_detail.php?id=487118

Thats the closest match we have had yet. Good work relicdude.

I can understand the corner brackets because there are no dovetails.

I also notice the staples underneath.

England
19th c.
A handsome Campaign-era British military officer's trunk of iron-bound wood.
Featuring iron bindings, hinges, handles, and latch as well as plank wood construction. Resting on raised feet.

Campaign-era trunks and coffers were the travel items of British military officers who bought and commissioned them for their campaigns abroad to India and Ceylon (The Raj); indeed, the whole of the British Empire. The officers, being predominately from the upper classes, were accustomed to a certain standard of living and found it unthinkable to travel without their necessaries.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

http://www.1stdibs.com/furniture_item_detail.php?id=387672

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

http://www.1stdibs.com/furniture_item_detail.php?id=387672

I was just getting ready to post that. Following your lead I see it has the old type dovetails.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Campaign-era British military officer's trunk of iron-bound wood.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

It appears the White Shaddow was correct as to it being British. The only thing left to determine is its authenticity. Im still not convinced of the style of dovetails. Chances are its real but I am still looking for an old chest with the evenly spaced dovetails and cant find one.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I have been trying to find out if evenly spaced, evenly sized dovetails is strictly a modern thing. Was it common for someone to take the extra time and effort to hand cut dovetails to look nice and even like the modern router type? I took a trip to my warehouse in hopes of answering my own question.

Pictured here is a known Chippendale drawer. I dont know how common the practice was but notice the hand cut dovetails are very evenly spaced on this old piece of furniture.




Im satisfied that ipsilateral's chest is most likely authentic. Pics can be deceiving and I apologize if I ever questioned it but as long as we get it right in the end.

Nice Campaign-era British military officer's trunk. Great ID relicdude07 and White Shaddow. Does this get a green check?

 

[ipsilateral]

Incredible! I am so sorry I missed the recent posts until now. Yes, it is a $200 mark on the bottom, but this must have been from a prior sale to someone else. The British pieces from 1stdibs are the closest we've found and I believe they are nearly identical. Thanks so much everyone, especially big cy who tirelessly likes to get answers! How cool! Thanks also to relicdude for finding the 1st 1stdibs example. The one trunk is sold, but there is another one that is close by the same dealer for $4,200 so it looks like I may have done pretty well for myself.

 

[ipsilateral]

I wouldn't be shocked if this trunk was made by the same maker as the example bigcy posted. They are incredibly similar, even diagonal wood cuts and same iron forged hardware..

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I wouldn't be shocked if this trunk was made by the same maker as the example bigcy posted. They are incredibly similar, even diagonal wood cuts and same iron forged hardware..

Relicdude found the link that solved it.

 

[ipsilateral]

Yes, I see that now. But you played a big role too. It's so rewarding when we close em out!