Chest

[ipsilateral]

Hey guys, need a little help with an iron strapped wooden chest. Trying to determine age and function. Wood seems to be hard with an unusual grain. Straps/hinges/handles look hand forged. Handles on sides are affixed with flathead screws. There is an unusual wooden wing on the back that must have some function in shipping(?). What is it? A strongbox? A shipping box? Any idea on the age based on hardware or styling? Measurements are metric. Approximately: 26" x 17.5" x 17".

Thanks! Nate

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Upgraded Night Vision Monocular Digital Infrared Monocular Telescope for 100% Darkness with 8X Zoom - Grab it through Amazon!

[Bigcypresshunter]

The box I found BTW is so strong that the owners could not pry open the mortise lock. Its a shame that they busted off a trim piece. I dont have the key either and have no idea whats inside. The point is that these solid hardwood chests with dovetailed corners are extremely strong.

I cant help to think that the metal bracing is overkill, made to look colonial. I could be wrong but I would like to see more research along with a better pic of the dovetails.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

How to Research for Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting From Lead Generation to Vetting - Grab it through Amazon!

[ipsilateral]

Well, I am glad to keep the discussion going on this for a bit. There are definitely areas where the wood has been handcarved and the tool marks are evident. I try to show that in two of these pictures. That being said, the wood is old and has a pretty gnarly patina on it. And, the box got cleaned up with oil enough to be allowed to bring it in the house... Also attached are a few more images of the dovetails. I know that there are some Indian repros of these chests, b/c I have one from Pier One that my wife brought to the relationship! It has similarities, but doesn't have nearly the decrepitude, wear and battle scars that this one has. So, if it's a repro it's either a really good one or a really abused one. Also, I bought it very inexpensively, so it wasn't likely there was any deception involved..

 

[ipsilateral]

PS: Let us know if there's something good in that box BigCy!!!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Well, I am glad to keep the discussion going on this for a bit. There are definitely areas where the wood has been handcarved and the tool marks are evident. I try to show that in two of these pictures. That being said, the wood is old and has a pretty gnarly patina on it. And, the box got cleaned up with oil enough to be allowed to bring it in the house... Also attached are a few more images of the dovetails. I know that there are some Indian repros of these chests, b/c I have one from Pier One that my wife brought to the relationship! It has similarities, but doesn't have nearly the decrepitude, wear and battle scars that this one has. So, if it's a repro it's either a really good one or a really abused one. Also, I bought it very inexpensively, so it wasn't likely there was any deception involved..

Its a very beautiful chest for sure but I would like to see more discussion on it or some examples posted. It doesnt look very strong even with all the metal. I think I could easily bust the top off. I heard something about dating by flat head screws but cant remember. Mainly the dovetails look more like the ones on my 20th century chest than the hand chiseled ones on antiques accoding to my links..

Im not saying its modern but Im not sure the dovetails fit the early 1800's description.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I hope you dont think Im putting down this beautiful chest or anyones experience and knowlege but I just want to make sure we got it right. Besides being of the utmost importance to get the correct ID, its a great learning experience for myself and anybody reading this thread. I would like to see some evidence presented.

Most of the nailheads look very crude but I also see more modern looking flat head screws. One thing thats bothering me is all the wood pieces. Why was it necessary to make the front out of 2 pieces of wood when wood was cheap and plentiful in the 1800's and it even appears to be a crooked joint? Is it an optical illusion? I drew what I think is a straight line in red. These chests are very popular. What would be the purpose here other than to make it look crude?

Is it a crack?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I apologize for piggybacking but I found my chest online. Its almost identical. I dont want to bust it open and damage it any more than it is. http://www.aspireauctions.com/auction55/details/10244.html



I would feel much better if someone would post a Mexican Colonial chest online similar to yours.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Notice the early dovetails on the 19th century chest that I just posted. And then look at the dovetails on my chest that I found and on the Mexican chest. There appears to be a very easily noticable difference. Do you see what Im looking at?





It appears my chest is 20th century with dovetails similar to yours.. I have an early 1800's desk in my warehouse. Ill take a look at the dovetails tommorrow.

 

[ipsilateral]

BigCy, this is good stuff. This is where we learn, man. I will not be offended by the questioning. I wouldn't ask the questions if I knew the answers! I appreciate everyone's time and energy who weighs in. It truly could be a replica. I really don't know. As far as the diagonals, no other boards are cut this way except the ones on the front.

 

[ipsilateral]

Here's one along the lines of What Breezie is talking about. They are calling this a 19th century Spanish colonial chest. Breezie listed several other examples..I can't get a picture to upload.


http://www.californiauctioneers.com...sh Colonial lift top chest w. iron straps.htm

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

After seeing a close up of the dovetails, I'm even more convinced it is Colonial Mexican. Check out these trunks:

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/1316675

http://californiauctioneers.com/California Furn pottery/ (row 7 and 8

http://www.ritualsdecor.com/index.p...ategory=Accessories&sub_category=Keepsake Box (last one listed)

Breezie

I just realized Breezie posted links. Ill have to study them.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here's one along the lines of What Breezie is talking about. They are calling this a 19th century Spanish colonial chest. Breezie listed several other examples..I can't get a picture to upload.


http://www.californiauctioneers.com...sh Colonial lift top chest w. iron straps.htm

Wow. I see a big difference in quality. The top is beveled, the wood has wormholes and is not so heavily varnished. I dont see any flathead screws. Ill have to study this all over. I could be wrong but I just wanted to bring these things to your attention. Im hoping to hear others opinions.

 

[ipsilateral]

I did take it to a local antiques dealer and she said she thought it was a shipping container and it was 1800's and European because the measurements are metric. I think those are all good observations on your part. We'll have to wait for some other opinions. I emailed the dude who wrote the dovetail article. I'll post whatever he responds.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I did take it to a local antiques dealer and she said she thought it was a shipping container and it was 1800's and European because the measurements are metric. I think those are all good observations on your part. We'll have to wait for some other opinions. I emailed the dude who wrote the dovetail article. I'll post whatever he responds.

It reminded me of a shipping container with the diagonal seam. Shipping containers were made out of any scrap wood that was available. They usually have numbers on them somewhere. I actually own an antique scraper thats sole purpose was to scrap off numbers to reuse the crate. http://www.handplane.com/219/stanley-no-70-box-scraper-plane/

My guess: Its was an old shipping container or made from shipping crate wood. It was later varnished over to sell as an antique. Its got a cool lock hasp. A Mexican antique trunk it may very well be but Im not sure its Colonial because of the dovetails.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I have been studying the links posted earlier. Even though the chest is overall beautiful looking, its not very well made as compared to all the others.. I guess it could be called a poor mans chest.

The trim on the bottom is very cheap and most likely just tacked on. The "wings" on the back also appear to be just tacked on with nails. The lid appears to be just a piece of wood, or several pieces glued together, but with no trim whatsoever. The edges are not even beveled. The front is made up of what looks like 2 scrap pieces. The only part of this chest thats well made are the dovetails. The small metal angle pieces on the dovetailed corners look cheap and do not add any strength. They appear to be different sizes possibly hand cut to size from a heavy steel strap. The hasp is cool looking however and is the best part of it but the bands are plain looking.. The side handles look cool.

Its very crude and cheaply made. That doesnt mean that it doesnt have value. It adds character. I love anything made of solid wood. We see so much plywood and particle board nowadays. These chests have become very popular as room decor. It would be cool to see the inside. It all seems to point to an old shipping crate with some metal braces and heavy varnish added sometime later or a poor mans home made chest made from scrap shipping crate wood.. I havent had a chance to get to my warehouse to look at some other dovetails. I was hoping to hear others opinions.

 

[ipsilateral]

OK, we have certainly gone back and forth on this chest, and I'm not sure it can be figured out at all. However, here is the opinion of the gentleman who wrote the dovetail article referenced above in the thread,

"If it is teak wood, which it looks like (it would be very heavy and hard, it doesn't float in water), it is probably a fairly recent reproduction from Indonesia, hand made by traditional wood and iron workers. It is all hand made with no power tools, rough hand cut dovetails, etc. The wrought iron is nicely aged. Yours is fairly small, I have seen them made in nesting sizes to save shipping. "

So, I think I am going to remove the green check until a really similar comp is found.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Im certainly not an expert and I was basically trying to keep the thread going for more opinions. I do know a little about carpentry work and it appears to be crudely made, not by a professional tradesman, or it was hand made in the old traditional way, as stated..

Its hard to tell from the pic but the metal looks brown. This may mean old browning (before bluing) of the metal or it was faked to look old. I agree the iron is nicely aged.

Is it varnished or does it just look that way in the pics? The top especially looks varnished. The rest looks at least stained.

I disagree with the assessment that its Teakwood. There would be no need to varnish Teakwood. Oil, varnish, and water sealers aren't recommended or necessary on teak wood furniture. The natural oils in the wood seal out water. Varnish chips and flakes on the wood.

I agree with removing the green check until someone can post a similar comparison. If it is Teakwood, it would make sense that it came from the Indonesian area but they do farm Teakwood in Mexico.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

... I love the trunk reminds me of the tool box I had to make in carpentry class in 1979 dovetail joints by hand!

Im curious did you cut the dovetails with a hammer and chisel or did you use electric power tools? Could you please explain the modern method of making dovetailed joints?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here is a short explanation on dovetail joints. It says "Once glued, a wooden dovetail joint requires no mechanical fasteners." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dovetail_joint

This is another of my many concerns about this box. The added iron corner pieces are not needed and do not add any strength. Are those rivets or tacks? They appear to have been added for looks only. I havent searched yet but I suggest to try to find another chest with these corner iron/steel pieces for comparison.

 

[allan]

Woodworking is not an easy way to date an item, anyone here see the work of Norm Abrahm? one thing that could possible narrow down the age is the screw's. On the %th picture down are screws, if one could be "carefully" taken out it is possible that we could narrow it down.Whatever the age it is a sweet looking box, I used to have a similar one I used for a coffee table.My ex still enjoy's it to this day lol

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Woodworking is not an easy way to date an item, anyone here see the work of Norm Abrahm? one thing that could possible narrow down the age is the screw's. On the %th picture down are screws, if one could be "carefully" taken out it is possible that we could narrow it down.Whatever the age it is a sweet looking box, I used to have a similar one I used for a coffee table.My ex still enjoy's it to this day lol

They have become very popular for home decor/coffee tables so it also means the criminals come out of the woodwork to cash in.

I agree to look at the screws/tacks/nails. Im trying to find out when those flat head screws (flush to surface) came into use.

This is not the quality work of Norm Abram's Yankee Workshop. Its a very simple made box although it does have dovetails. No professional furniture maker would use a nail like this to attach a trim piece. It also looks like it was hacked with a hatchet.



I hate to say it but its looking like the possibility exists that its not an antique. It may not even be North American.

Thanks for your suggestions/opinions. We need more participation to get this one solved.