CEDAR COUNTY MISSOURI WAR CACHE LOST

[gldhntr]

Church Hollow was a small rural community with a church, a mill,
and a few houses located in a hollow with Cedar Creek to the west and
the Sac River to the east. In the early part of the Civil War three friends
from Church Hollow joined the Confederate Army, but before leaving
their homes they pooled their money and then they put the money into
a large kettle. The kettle full of money was so heavy that two men had
to carry and bury it. A rough stone map of a kettle was carved on a rock
with several symbols carved on other rocks. The three then left for the
war.

On August 10, 1861, at the Battle of Wilson's Creek, just southwest
of Springfield, Missouri, one of the three was killed and another died
a few days later. The survivor later returned home, but his mind was
so affected by the war that his recollections of the past were hazy and
fragmented. His friends helped him search for the kettle of money, but
they never could locate it. He said the kettle was "30 minutes east of
the church."

 

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[Mother Superior]

Totally agree with you mother superior,
If you watch a video "the disappointment, or force of credulity" by Brian Springer....It shows his father CW Springer, old and dirty, he was smiling just a little, but you could see his years of desperate searching with no reward in his face. I can't stand to think anyone would continue for years as he did when in fact...I found it. I'd feel very shitty if I said nothing and watched people dig for decades. In fact it's the glory of 3 years of hard work I'm after. I'm betting the govt will strip me of any gold I allow them to find on me...but my book will live on.

I salute your empathy and desire to spare others from useless suffering, but if you did find that cache then you already said too much. Quit while you're ahead.

 

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[Bugoutbusman]

According to the local county records, A. Pike was here, is there another A. Pike in the kgc?. He may not have been grandmaster at that point I don't know. It does list all those men, if you look into the legend of obadiah Smith alot of men were identified....here is a bit more from that book...

This book talks about the 31 outlaws murdering 11 men, 7 on site(3 col gravely regiment, , Powell, Robert Williams, obadiah Smith. That's 10, not sure who was the 11th yet.

 

[Bugoutbusman]

As I mentioned...I'm STILL writing the book and doing fact checks on the people involved. My part of the hunt is set in stone so to speak. Researching myths about people long since dead can be a daunting experience.

 

[Kace]

Yes, I told Bug who I do not know at all that I'm down in that area pretty regularly and would be there before Christmas and that I'd meet him and see what he wants to show me. He asked me to post what I thought on here. I said I would.

Kace

PS...I'll post when I'm heading to meet him....If I don't return, you'll know who I was with last. lol!

A2...Keep the thread alive after my post so you guys will know I'm ok

Kace

 

[Bugoutbusman]

I have offered to have someone confirm my treasure find. Kace has offered to have a look at my proof. Christmas has come and gone without a meeting. During a couple of phone calls and in her texts she consistently mentions her requirement to see and photograph my gold. That's not what I offer, I offer proof. It would be foolish for any treasure hunter to flaunt his gold. Anyone can buy a coin or 2 online and make a claim they found treasure. What I offer is 100% proof that I alone solved church hollow and recovered the kettle of gold. Is anyone els in the area interested in having a look at my proof and then posting their honest opinion?

 

[Kace]

I have offered to have someone confirm my treasure find. Kace has offered to have a look at my proof. Christmas has come and gone without a meeting. During a couple of phone calls and in her texts she consistently mentions her requirement to see and photograph my gold. That's not what I offer, I offer proof. It would be foolish for any treasure hunter to flaunt his gold. Anyone can buy a coin or 2 online and make a claim they found treasure. What I offer is 100% proof that I alone solved church hollow and recovered the kettle of gold. Is anyone els in the area interested in having a look at my proof and then posting their honest opinion?

Just to be clear and open here...I said that for me to say On T'Net, that the KGC Vault and Gold From The Church Hollow Treasure Legend Had Been Found by Bug...I'd need to see a Couple of Coins and If there were Gold Bars involved, I'd need to see One of those in order for me to come on here and tell members 'Yes, I Saw This and the Dates Match the Time Period'. Or see a photo of him holding a bar to relate that back here.

Trails and Carvings are a dime a dozen in SWMO...I can't see how telling you guys that I saw trails, markers and carvings or a hole in the ground would prove to you all he found (as in recovered) Treasure.

I Did Ask if he cared if I took a couple pics to show you guys and I said I Could Mark Them In A Way Nobody Else Could Copy Them and Use Them as theirs and he said No Pics. I said Ok I respect that, but I'd Have to SEE Something other than Carvings, Legends and Trails and Ground Holes in order to verify. He did say Anyone could buy gold coins and I agree, but there still has to be something other than the story, legend and How he found this in order for me to say it's true and he found it and I saw it and am 100% convinced he's done what he said. I'm not saying he didn't do what he says, just that I'd have to SEE something in order to verify to you guys I Saw This.

As he said, he wants to write a book about this as a legacy...I told him I knew a good writer in that part of the country that's very familiar with the history and CW treasure legends there and also the layout of the areas since he said he wasn't a writer himself and really wasn't familiar with all the players except the local to that area ones involved in this story. He said he'd think about it. I just said to let me know.

I know the area down there very well and there are a lot of public places to meet..Bug wants to prove his story to me and show me How he found this Without Showing Me Anything Tangible and I Can't In Good Conscience Do That Without Seeing Something Tangible To Relate Back to you guys that I Saw It.

I can't figure out how to Confirm his KGC vault and Church Hollow Treasure story to you guys without seeing something Tangible. I fully respect his views on No Pics...But I'd Still Have To SEE Something He Found After Solving These Legends.

I didn't ask to go to a vault full of gold or anything like that, he just wants to show me How he found this treasure to confirm his story without showing me anything other than How he did it.

If there's another way, I'm open to it. I just can't think of any other way to do what he wants, Which Simply Put.. Is For Me To Confirm He Found This Treasure and Show Me How He Did It Without Showing Me Anything He Found (recovered)

Any Suggestions?

Kace

 

[creskol]

Interesting .. While the history of enamelware can be traced to Germany in the 1760's, it wasn't until the 1870's that a surge of "competitive creativity" began to change American kitchenware. Out of this surge came enameled goods with spattered, speckled, and splashed enamel. The best-known brands, especially the granite and agate ware names, held onto a strong position into the 20th century. Your pot would fall in this range, and most definitely post dates the Civil War.

Book .. no book .treasure or no treasure .. cache or no cache .. that kettle still postdates the Civil War.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

I have offered to have someone confirm my treasure find. Kace has offered to have a look at my proof. Christmas has come and gone without a meeting. During a couple of phone calls and in her texts she consistently mentions her requirement to see and photograph my gold. That's not what I offer, I offer proof. It would be foolish for any treasure hunter to flaunt his gold. Anyone can buy a coin or 2 online and make a claim they found treasure. What I offer is 100% proof that I alone solved church hollow and recovered the kettle of gold. Is anyone els in the area interested in having a look at my proof and then posting their honest opinion?

Well, I reckon I was. Until I remembered I had seen them pics and heard this story somewhere before. Did a little back trackin and figgered out where.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...reasure-hunting-condensed-56.html#post5423562

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...-james-2-other-treasure-wakenda-missouri.html

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/general-discussion/277447-i-found-treasue.html


Now I'm of a mind this is jest another tale like the rest of 'em. All gristle, no meat. Makin any ground on the Beale debacle yet?

Good luck with yer book.

 

[Bugoutbusman]

Church hollow

Book .. no book .treasure or no treasure .. cache or no cache .. that kettle still postdates the Civil War.

This kettle most definatly predates the civil war. This is no cheap american knockoff. American style was enamelware on inside and outside. This is porcelain on the inside. It is most definatly the church hollow kettle. Id like to show someone the proof, but alas its just a binch of naysayers. Why read treasurenet if you camt believe a cache could be found? You will see me on tv in a few weeks.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Just to be clear and open here...I said that for me to say On T'Net, that the KGC Vault and Gold From The Church Hollow Treasure Legend Had Been Found by Bug...I'd need to see a Couple of Coins and If there were Gold Bars involved, I'd need to see One of those in order for me to come on here and tell members 'Yes, I Saw This and the Dates Match the Time Period'. Or see a photo of him holding a bar to relate that back here.

Trails and Carvings are a dime a dozen in SWMO...I can't see how telling you guys that I saw trails, markers and carvings or a hole in the ground would prove to you all he found (as in recovered) Treasure.

I Did Ask if he cared if I took a couple pics to show you guys and I said I Could Mark Them In A Way Nobody Else Could Copy Them and Use Them as theirs and he said No Pics. I said Ok I respect that, but I'd Have to SEE Something other than Carvings, Legends and Trails and Ground Holes in order to verify. He did say Anyone could buy gold coins and I agree, but there still has to be something other than the story, legend and How he found this in order for me to say it's true and he found it and I saw it and am 100% convinced he's done what he said. I'm not saying he didn't do what he says, just that I'd have to SEE something in order to verify to you guys I Saw This.

As he said, he wants to write a book about this as a legacy...I told him I knew a good writer in that part of the country that's very familiar with the history and CW treasure legends there and also the layout of the areas since he said he wasn't a writer himself and really wasn't familiar with all the players except the local to that area ones involved in this story. He said he'd think about it. I just said to let me know.

I know the area down there very well and there are a lot of public places to meet..Bug wants to prove his story to me and show me How he found this Without Showing Me Anything Tangible and I Can't In Good Conscience Do That Without Seeing Something Tangible To Relate Back to you guys that I Saw It.

I can't figure out how to Confirm his KGC vault and Church Hollow Treasure story to you guys without seeing something Tangible. I fully respect his views on No Pics...But I'd Still Have To SEE Something He Found After Solving These Legends.

I didn't ask to go to a vault full of gold or anything like that, he just wants to show me How he found this treasure to confirm his story without showing me anything other than How he did it.

If there's another way, I'm open to it. I just can't think of any other way to do what he wants, Which Simply Put.. Is For Me To Confirm He Found This Treasure and Show Me How He Did It Without Showing Me Anything He Found (recovered)

Any Suggestions?

Kace

I reckon that feller must not be from Missoura.

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

I reckon that feller must not be from Missoura.

View attachment 1664754

You don't have to be from Missouri Just being raised here will do it sometimes.
Would there be some legal issues involved as far as heirs?
I think I would be inclined to keep my mouth shut. People being people they want to crow a little. If you felt so inclined cause you had found real treasure perhaps it should be presented as fiction. Or tell your dog- the one with the solid gold dish and four poster bed.

 

[Kace]

HBP...Here's the inscription/carving of the kettle, turkey tracks and cross on the centennial monument at the Nevada, MO courthouse and then the carving from the links Kentuck posted that were posted on Tnet by several other members. The story follows from the Nevada Paper.







Kace

Monumental mystery: Man says he has information on Church Hollow carving, treasure
Thursday, February 24, 2011
By Lynn A. Wade/Nevada Daily Mail

A close-up of the symbol on the marker.
A curious drawing, carved in stone on a farm in Cedar County and reproduced on Nevada's Centennial monument has had folks wondering for more than half a century -- is it a treasure map? Is it an Indian symbol? Is it simply a meaningless drawing?

Over the years many theories have been presented, but now Kenneth Morrison says he knows the truth about the carving. He believes it was, indeed, a treasure marker. Civil War treasure, to be exact. He says it's been found and hidden again, but he won't disclose by whom and doesn't know where it might have been hidden for the second time.

Recently Morrison contacted the Nevada Daily Mail via e-mail, after having seen a 2005 story about the carving, outlining many of the theories held by locals, treasure hunters, and even a rock-carving expert.


The Centennial marker on the Vernon County Courthouse lawn, Nevada.
The drawing consists of three crosses, with "turkey feet" at the bottom of each cross, surrounded about three-quarters of the way around by a "u" or kettle shape. There are two other "turkey feet" descending from the surrounding shape.

Morrison's story, although there's no corroborating evidence of it, adds yet another thread to the long-enduring, twisting yarns surrounding the carving.

The Church Hollow Treasure

The carving is located on "the old Austin place," home to feminist Kate Austin in the 1890s, and the carving is connected to the Church Hollow Treasure legend, which was discussed at length in a 1968 article in True West magazine. Local historian Patrick Brophy (now deceased) said in 2005 that the legend says three men had buried their treasure -- whatever it was -- in the area and carved the drawing, which would only have meaning to those present at the time. Then they went off to fight for the South in the Civil War. A local man believes he'd identified those three men, one of whom returned alive from the war, Brophy said, noting that "whether he reclaimed the 'treasure' is unclear."

True West's article speculated that the center cross, for example, indicates the site known as Church Hollow. It asserts that the curved "kettle" represents the lay of the land, for example, with segments representing a fork in a creek and Cedar Bluff. Another nearby glyph seems to resemble a cross pick and a shovel, but the article also noted that few have seen the second glyph. Nevertheless, the article says the Church Hollow treasure is "Out there. Somewhere between the old road and Church Hollow Branch."

Morrison theorizes the treasure may have been left behind by William Clarke Quantrill's raiders, and says he believes it's been found an removed, then later re-hidden. The Daily Mail discovered numerous tales from throughout the years about possible treasure left by these outlaw marauders in places throughout west central and southwest Missouri, and east central and southeast Kansas. Nevada's Bushwhacker Museum coordinator Terry Ramsey confirmed that Quantrill and his men did spend some time in the area, and the scoundrels may well have buried some of their ill-gotten booty, "but I can't imagine people like that not coming back to get it," she said.

Brophy's 2005 information about the site makes note that the church was a meeting house of pioneer Unionist minister Obediah Smith, who was strongly disliked by Quantrill. Passing through Cedar County disguised, as were his men, as Federals, Quantrill pretended to admire Smith's rifle and asked to have a look at it, then shot Smith with it. There's no mention, though, of any treasure related to Smith.

But Morrison says a treasure was found on the Austin farm and removed some time in the 1950s, and he believes a design found on the carving was derived from the back of a coin. While the Daily Mail could find no coins -- gold or otherwise -- minted in America at any point in its history that carried a similar design, some say the outer portions that some describe as a kettle with turkey tracks on the bottom could resemble curved branch designs found on many American coins, including those dating back to the American Civil War and earlier. Morrison said the stone map led to a topographical X where the treasure was found and removed.

"A local man from El Dorado Springs dug up the money, all in gold American coins, on the Austin farm and hauled it away in a '40s model 1/2-ton Chevy pickup," Morrison said. Morrison said the man who dug up the treasure had thrown a Prince Albert can there with his name scratched in it, which enabled Morrison to find him. Moore said he talked to the man's son but was sworn to secrecy, and was told the man "rehid some of the treasure out of fear of being caught with it and later died from a heart attack."

Morrison notes that "There is another carving at the Stockton Lake just above the water mark, and further south on Cedar Creek was another map carved in sand stone next to where the Indians had ground things like corn, because there is a hollow spot in the sand stone like where they ground. On Horse Creek is another carving sitting on a Indian grave. East of Caplinger Mills on a hill is another carving, and another in a cave on the same hill -- that one might have been found."

The Spanish treasure theory

In 2005, Lou Layton, too, believed their was treasure to be found out there -- but he believes it to be a 300-year-old Spanish cache, left behind along with a complex code that he'd spent 25 years decoding.

Layton said at the time that the Spanish often used code, an theorized that the glyph's makers relied on a code derived from the Castilian alphabet and the Catholic Bible. Like the True West article asserts, Layton also believed the central cross would represent the letter "t" which might stand for Tobias, and the "u" surrounding the crosses represents the 24th letter of the Calstillian alphabet, so this clue leads to Tobias 1:24, which references the number 45, meaning 45 degrees or a specific distance. In his 2005 account, Layton said that at first the directions seemed to lead to nothing, but excavation on that spot led to another rock with a symbol carved on it. This rock led to another, and so on.

Eventually, he said, he uncovered several clues including two stones he believes are keystones that will unlock other clues.

He'd found no treasure, though, and agreed at the time the drawings could lead to a safe haven, a cache of weapons, or treasure. The Daily Mail couldn't locate Layton for an update. As far as can be deterimined, he has not found the treasure he believed may be out there.

Morrison said theories of Spanish treasure give him a chuckle, given what he believes has happened.

Movies and monuments and more speculation on drawing's meaning

The notion of treasure so intrigued the family of filmaker Brian Springer that he created a documentary film titled, "The Disappointment: Or, The Force of Credulity." According to a review posted on www.vdb.org, in the film is narrative about four kinds of treasures that may be real, figurative or mythical, connected to the Austin Farm; Spanish gold, a Civil War-era cache, Kate Austin's diary (an historical treasure, given her fame as an anarchist and feminist) and the treasure of helping one's family heal the past and grow. This film mentions the fact that the symbol carved on the rock was adopted to adorn the Centennial monument in Nevada, but no one seems to know the meaning of the symbol.

In 1955, Nevada's townspeople were preparing to celebrate its centennial, and it was decided that a monument, containing a time capsule, would be placed on the courthouse lawn. A monument committee was formed and chaired by the late W.E. Hoffman, a dentist and amateur archaeologist. Hoffman brought a drawing of the glyph and asked the committee if they could put that on the monument, seemingly on a lark. There were no objections, and Brophy, who was on the committee at the time, noted later that "many notions were aired as to the glyph's meaning."

Osage Chief Paul Pitts attended, and he or another person closely involved with the celebration expressed an opinion that the carving marked an Indian battle site, Brophy said in 2005. The Nevada Daily Mail's accounts at the time said locals had interpreted the symbol to mean "Good hunting, plenty of wild turkey and a full kettle." A later report said a letter from Pitts was to be sealed in the time capsule.

"According to Chief Pitts (the glyph) can be positively identified as being made after the introduction of Catholicism to the Indians by the French missionaries. The large outline resembling a kettle has been interpreted as being the sign of death; the cross in the center of this outline is identified as the Christian Cross; and the two symbols on either side of the cross are identified as dead Comanche Indians. No interpretation could be made of the two outlines below the large outline, other than they are identified as 'road runners,'" the Daily Mail account said.

Questions remain

The mystery of the Church Hollow glyph may never be answered; or perhaps, Pitts' letter will shed more light on the subject when the time capsule is opened in 2055.

Until then, plenty of theories abound. Some subscribe to the treasure map notion; others simply believe it's just a meaningless doodle or a hoax of some kind.

Carol Diaz-Granados, an anthropologist at Washington University, St. Louis, evaluated the design in 2005, and said it is "quite enigmatic," but she was not convinced it has ties to buried treasure.

She posed the idea at the time that the "feet" extending from the three crosses may be root, but notes that many explanations may be possible. Historians, she suggested, may hold the key to the meaning of the drawing.

Others say it's simply a doodle featuring Christian Crosses and a decorative border.

Nevertheless, Morrison believes there could still be treasure out there. "I couldn't afford at the time to stay and look as I had a family to support. Hope this helps someone find the rest, I am too old now to look," he said.

 

[Kace]

Well, I reckon I was. Until I remembered I had seen them pics and heard this story somewhere before. Did a little back trackin and figgered out where.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...reasure-hunting-condensed-56.html#post5423562

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...-james-2-other-treasure-wakenda-missouri.html

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/general-discussion/277447-i-found-treasue.html


Good luck with yer book.

Thank You Kentuck...I hadn't seen those threads.

Kace

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

Thanks fir posting this, Kace. When I looked at the carvings, the three crosses caught my eye. I've seen that simple image many times. My father was a preacher and had a number of pamphlets and books. Many times the image of three crosses were used in these books and pamphlets to represent the crucifiction of Jesus between two thieves. The center cross always stood to the forefront. The crucifiction took place at Golgotha, or the place of the skull. If I remember right Golgotha was a hill. Just something whivh stood out to me. Perhaps the crosses represent the church? I don't think those are turkey tracks.
As far as you confirming the treasure, the situation does not look good. It would be nice if you could at least see enough, without photos, to give an opinion. I don't need pictures- your opinion would be good enough.
Looking at it from his point of view, why would he trust you enough to show you the goods? He would be a fool to be alone. Yet if he brings a friend in case you turn out to be a rascal, then he is letting more people in on his fortune. Not a good idea.
Guess we have to wait for the book.

 

[Bugoutbusman]

Church hollow

Kace seems to think i am ken morrison, which i am not. My name is Gene Carter. Although ken morrison had a few details that seem to coincide with my discovery, he was also way off.
I have TONS of proof including photos.
Here is NEW info NEVER BEFORE UNDERSTOOD....THE 3 CROSSES
Church was a MAN, he had 2 sons, they lived in Bear Creek, 30 minutes from the Austin farm as the legend says. In the EXACT heading the 900 feet revealed, the heading ws the 900 feet between the 2 carvings on the Austin farm. THERE WILL BE ALOT MORE IN MY BOOK, YOU WILL BE AMAZED

 

[Bugoutbusman]

Bear Creek township...formerly called Paynterville.
I have offered to prove this all to Kace.
Kace promised to check this all out before christmas. I refuse to meet with a stranger and reveal my gold.Kace clearly states that the ONLY PROOF IS GOLD. She says just show her 1 or 2 coins...how is this proof? Anyone can buy a couple coins online. The proof is in my evidence. If i tried to prove it with a coin or 2 would only cause everyone to ask for proof where they came from.The difference between me and Kace is that she is a metal detectorist and i am a treasure hunter. Detectorists always flaunt thier measly gains, but treasure hunters get gold fever, which turns to paranoia after its found. Many treasure hunters are murdered by thier own friend and familly, so why would a real treasure hunter reveal his gold to a stranger. So now that Kace is all butthurt about not getting to see the gold she wants to discredit me. She HAS NOT seen my evidence, i told her a few details but not much. INDEED I ALONE SOLVED THE LEGEND AND RECOVERED THE KETTLE.
Now as far as the claim the kettle isnt old enough...american enamelware is the same inside and out. This is no cheap american knockoff, it has a ceramic coated interior. It was shot with a shotgun to put little holes in it to drain it of water, the blasted holes still extend downward proving this kettle never sat on a hard surface since it had been buried more than 157 years ago. There is microscopic bits of gold that rubbed into the pores of the ceramic coated interior.

 

[Bugoutbusman]

Notice the compass? Same as the 2nd glyph. See the 900 foot heading?

 

[Bugoutbusman]

Ken morrison had a couple of clues that the A.J. Austin diary described...but it was very vague.
Ken found nothing but a paintcan left by a previous treasure hunter that was lost.
I alone found everything EXCEPT the starting carvings on the austin farm 14 miles away.

 

[Bugoutbusman]

Church hollow

Anyone ever heard of the A.J. Austin diary? Kate Austin died in kansas, which is where C.W. Springer was from, he made 600 trips to the austin farm and dug for many years with assistance of Sam Austin, they were stangers until C.W. showed up with the diary. So they dug for many years long after claims were made in the 40`s and 50`s. Sam having the land, c.w. having the diary with clues. But the diary was very vague leaving alot of speculation on how to understand it. I have never seen the diary, i went on my own translation of what i saw in the 1968 magazine. Try watching a video titled " the dissapointment, or the force of credulity" by brian springer
That video shows the artifact that was either aztec, inca, or mayan...i think mayan. It was found in an ancient civilization called " big eddie" 1 mile from the austin gorge. The 3 men had originally found a spaniard cache left by spanish conquistadors with mayan slaves...the survivors of all that were massicred by the spaniards. They cashed in some of the gold and moved it. The old rumors about the gold being moved was NOT in the 50's but actually it was the 1850's when it was moved.

 

[Bugoutbusman]

Any questions?