Can anybody give me an approximate date for this style buckle attachment?

creskol

creskol

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Look at the B and the R in the copperplate script alphabet I posted. Is it just me or does anybody else think it looks like a B? Adam Rossbach or Bossbach?

copperscript bossbach.jpg
copperplate-scriptB.jpgcopperplate-scriptR.jpg
 

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The workmanship on the reverse is pretty sloppy, & although the front has its charm its fairly amateur for a full blown metal worker. So I'm guessing he had another trade but dabbled in this piece to save paying out for a commissioned piece. This in most ways is more interesting than the majority of buckles, a kinda folk art in its own right & a true personal & hard to match piece in terms of rarity :hello2:
 

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With lots of great information to go on, and the general consensus being that this piece dates to the early part of the 1800's, I will mark it solved, but still welcome more discussion. I appreciate you all!
 

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Folk art like this is hot right now, so you should consider this a valuable item. Have it appraised/insured, or if selling send it to a good folk art auction house like Northeast Auctions.

The more you can find out about the owner, the more it is worth. :icon_thumright:
 

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Bramblefind said:
Do we think the name is "Adam Rossbach"? I found a man by that name in Newark, NJ b. ~ 1853 who had an occupation as "Japanner".
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JAPANNER....A varnisher who used lacquering process invented in Japan.
Closely allied to Papier-Mache trade.
 

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The problem with the double "S" in German--is that you wouldn't have three "S's" in a row, and that's what I see there if that is indeed a double S.

I see another S after the double S--which tells me that this is not a double S.

Now, it may be that Lucas is right about the long s short s. I have not heard of that before--it must've been something specifically immigrant, rather than something in use in the mother country.

IMO, the attachment on the back looks newer than those have suggested in their replies.

Best Wishes,


Buckles
 

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BuckleBoy said:
IMO, the attachment on the back looks newer than those have suggested in their replies.

Best Wishes,


Buckles
Click to expand...

Hey Buckles .. what are your thoughts on the attachments? Thanks!
 

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Just to clarify, the double 's' we see on the buckle is the standard English-American form that becomes "ss" around 1800.

My speculation concerned the German use of these characters in handwriting. Again, the long 's' short 's' on the buckle is typical handwriting for the late 18th century.

Earlier we would see a double long 's' unless the second was a terminal 's' as in "witness." OK I know, :sleepy2: :sleepy4:
 

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Lucas said:
Just to clarify, the double 's' we see on the buckle is the standard English-American form that becomes "ss" around 1800.

My speculation concerned the German use of these characters in handwriting. Again, the long 's' short 's' on the buckle is typical handwriting for the late 18th century.

Earlier we would see a double long 's' unless the second was a terminal 's' as in "witness." OK I know, :sleepy2: :sleepy4:
Click to expand...

Since you posted this, I have done my own research and come to the same conclusions. I had no clue about this, and I have looked at many documents from the 1830s through CW letters and diaries. But then again, these documents are not early enough to show the characters you describe. You are Absolutely Correct about the letters and their time frame of usage. I just don't know how to explain the newer looking attachments on the back--and this is both the slot for the belt and the tines. :dontknow: These strike me as being post CW. :icon_scratch:

I have looked for pre-CW civilian or decorative plates, but have seen nothing like these attachments. Now, that said--they could've been homemade, in which case there would not be another example of the style readily available. The problem is, most of the buckles from the time frame of the "long s/short s" are cast, right down to the shoe buckles. This one appears to be made of stamped brass, with the attachments braised on.

:dontknow:
 

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I just assumed the two prong tongue was pirated ( :icon_pirat: ) from a knee or other buckle... the overall style, and what it was for/how it was worn, well, :dontknow: :icon_scratch: no clue.

BTW, I did find the long-short double 's' in a 1820's book on handwriting, so while uncommon, it was not entirely dead. Of course, lots of books went into multiple editions that spanned half a century or more.
 

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Lucas said:
I just assumed the two prong tongue was pirated ( :icon_pirat: ) from a knee or other buckle... the overall style, and what it was for/how it was worn, well, :dontknow: :icon_scratch: no clue.

BTW, I did find the long-short double 's' in a 1820's book on handwriting, so while uncommon, it was not entirely dead. Of course, lots of books went into multiple editions that spanned half a century or more.
Click to expand...

Sure--and people also stuck with styles of handwriting that they were taught, if they were taught at all in those days (many of the early wills and deeds simply had the recorder transcribing them and at the end writing "his mark" whereupon the person giving the will would put an "X" after hearing it read back to him and making sure everything was correct. So someone could've received schooling during that period, and made the buckle several decades later, too. It's a hard one to pin down.

Yes, the tines do look on closer inspection like they might have been pirated from a shoe buckle chape--but you'll notice that both the tines are braised onto the bar... So I think this was a totally homemade buckle. :)



Best Wishes,


Buckles
 

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I dont know why solder would be all over the back of the buckle unless something was removed. Why is the top edge soldered?
 

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bigcypresshunter said:
I dont know why solder would be all over the back of the buckle unless something was removed. Why is the top edge soldered?
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That was a good question BC .. It made me go back and have another look myself. After a bit more cleaning, it appears as though the front of this buckle is silver, which has been applied over brass, and is held in place by silver/solder. This is sure a strange piece! :dontknow: :icon_scratch:
 

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creskol said:
After a bit more cleaning, it appears as though the front of this buckle is silver, which has been applied over brass, and is held in place by silver/solder. This is sure a strange piece! :dontknow: :icon_scratch:
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Yes I think you are correct. The silver face has been soldered to a brass buckle or homemade brass piece .
 

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