Idahodutch
Bronze Member
In other words, the East direction dictates that the road to/from Portland is a north/south road.
At least that’s what is indicated. 😉
At least that’s what is indicated. 😉
Buried Money in Portland Oregon
- Thread starter Crow
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Idahodutch
Bronze Member
The map Also indicates that the church is mostly east of the port; which limits possibilities down to only one. 🥹👍🥳
I say that because the port in Portland is not west of the Catholic Church shown … in Old Portland, west of the river.
I suppose that with this story, that it very well may be another option not yet discussed. There is still maybe a steeple issue 😵💫
Idahodutch
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
It appears the first church in Portland was not the Catholic Church,
Here is a partial snip talking about it, and also the 75’ bell tower 😁
Ooops, it says the tower came along in 1957.
Another snag 😵💫😖
It should be noted that this church was also in old Portland, west of the river.
The map indicates the church is east of the port (or Portland), which is not how either of these churches lay out.
Idahodutch
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Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Since the map/chart indicates the port is to the west of the church, I was looking for early churches of East Portland, the area east of the river (port).
The earliest church I found in East Portland, was not started until 1867 … 5 years after the map.
It’s starting to look more and more like the church of Milwaukie, was the only one to choose from, on the east side of the river, that had a road to Portland, going by.
Maybe someone can find another candidate?
Maybe the Milwaukie church was the church of the map 🤷🏼♂️
Idahodutch
cw0909
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have wondered where Sims got 6k,maybe he found a large sum of $$$ in the 1861 flood & hid it, then the 1894 flood took out the markers on the chart
Washington statesman. [volume], December 20, 1861, Image 2
chroniclingamerica.loc.gov
1894
map flooded area portland
leveereadycolumbia.org
www.oregonlive.com
Washington statesman. [volume], December 20, 1861, Image 2
Washington statesman. [volume] (Walla Walla, Wash. Terr.) 1861-1864, December 20, 1861, Image 2
Washington statesman. [volume] (Walla Walla, Wash. Terr.) 1861-1864, December 20, 1861, Image 2, brought to you by Washington State Library; Olympia, WA, and the National Digital Newspaper Program.
chroniclingamerica.loc.gov
1894
map flooded area portland
The Great Flood of 1894 - Levee Ready Columbia
In May and June of 1894, heavy rainfall combined with spring snowmelt led to significant flooding on the Columbia and Willamette Rivers in the Portland area. The Columbia River reached an elevation of 39.7 feet, which is still the highest flood on record to this day.
leveereadycolumbia.org
Portland’s catastrophic flood of 1894: Souvenir photo book from era showcases devastation
The Willamette River reached its highest recorded point in June 1894, thanks to persistent heavy rain and snow runoff.
www.oregonlive.com
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Crow
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Good point I could the possibility that the 1894 flood could of obliterated the over landmarks. The graves the stump the barn. Providing they was not already obliterated by urban growth?
Crow
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Crow
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Here some thing that might be of interest. there was road that was toll road a turnpike. It was from Portland to Milwaukie The Macadamised road. pike road might of not meant plank road but a road with turn pike (toll road ) in Book History of Milwaukie. tells of this road. it ended at the ferry crossing into Milewalkie
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Crow
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Macadamised road below.
this road ended at the west back across from Milwaukie. you can see in the picture below.
A bit about pike roads.
Pike roads
Perhaps the person who drew the map from Tennesse was told the location of the money from this dying Sims and wrote pike road on the map?
So the road might not actually related to plank roads at all.? And two miles west following Macadamised road on the west side of the river from the church at Milwaukie?
Crow
this road ended at the west back across from Milwaukie. you can see in the picture below.
A bit about pike roads.
Pike roads
Perhaps the person who drew the map from Tennesse was told the location of the money from this dying Sims and wrote pike road on the map?
So the road might not actually related to plank roads at all.? And two miles west following Macadamised road on the west side of the river from the church at Milwaukie?
Crow
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Crow,
That’s an interesting look.
Here are a couple of google earth images, that show current status of that route.
The image below is a zoom in, showing S. Macadam Ave, is the same as highway 43.
This next image below, is zoomed out to show Old Town Portland at top center, highway 43 on left hand side of the river, and Milwaukie at bottom center.
The layout of the church with the port, would put the church east of the river.
If using Macadam as the road to Portland, of the map, then the church would have probably been located in Milwaukie, as you proposed earlier on.
Idahodutch
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
cw0909,have wondered where Sims got 6k,maybe he found a large sum of $$$ in the 1861 flood & hid it, then the 1894 flood took out the markers on the chart
Washington statesman. [volume], December 20, 1861, Image 2
Washington statesman. [volume] (Walla Walla, Wash. Terr.) 1861-1864, December 20, 1861, Image 2
Washington statesman. [volume] (Walla Walla, Wash. Terr.) 1861-1864, December 20, 1861, Image 2, brought to you by Washington State Library; Olympia, WA, and the National Digital Newspaper Program.
1894
map flooded area portland
The Great Flood of 1894 - Levee Ready Columbia
In May and June of 1894, heavy rainfall combined with spring snowmelt led to significant flooding on the Columbia and Willamette Rivers in the Portland area. The Columbia River reached an elevation of 39.7 feet, which is still the highest flood on record to this day.
Portland’s catastrophic flood of 1894: Souvenir photo book from era showcases devastation
The Willamette River reached its highest recorded point in June 1894, thanks to persistent heavy rain and snow runoff.
The flood considerations is a really good possibility.
In the map of the flood of Portland you posted, it made me think about if the road to Portland was on the east of the river, and Milwaukie was the start; that the landmarks of the house, barn, graves, an possibly the Big Stump possibly wiped away, it might be very handy to see how far south of east Portland, that sections were flooded.
Those landmarks may have been closer to the area shown on this Google earth image below. The property originally owned by Llewelyn, the orchard man, was located almost as far north as the 2.85 mile dot, however it went from the river, over to the east about a mile.
Idahodutch
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
I had some thoughts about the “big stump”.
Like how big is considered big? 🥴
In Oregon, especially west of the cascades, have some very large trees.
Here is a screenshot talking about the biggest
A stump from a big tree like one of these, would need to have a good water source, but unlike the graves and stump, the Barn maybe didn’t fare too well in the 1861 flood, hence the funny looking barn on the map.
The graves and stump were still there in 1862, when map was made.
The stump may still have remnants, depending where things ended up, but it was already a stump over 160 years ago.
The 2 things that are in question, are on a sloped mound.
I did some measuring from the river to Llewelyn Elementary, and from there on eastward to Milwaukie Ave, then from Milwaukie Ave, to the area just north of that driving range, where the 2 things are by.
From the river to the elementary school is about 1/4 mile. Then about another 200 - 250 yards to reach Milwaukie Ave.
From Milwaukie Ave to the potential spot near the back of the barn, is about 1/2 mile.
There is a water source, going right near there, called Crystal Springs Creek, and feeds Crystal Springs Lake.
The dropped pin is about where the north end of the collapsing barn would have been, if those 2 things are the grave markers. The stump would have been next to the creek in this scenario.
Perhaps the water source would have been a real need for for a “big” stump, if measured by Oregon standards 🤓
Idahodutch
Like how big is considered big? 🥴
In Oregon, especially west of the cascades, have some very large trees.
Here is a screenshot talking about the biggest
A stump from a big tree like one of these, would need to have a good water source, but unlike the graves and stump, the Barn maybe didn’t fare too well in the 1861 flood, hence the funny looking barn on the map.
The graves and stump were still there in 1862, when map was made.
The stump may still have remnants, depending where things ended up, but it was already a stump over 160 years ago.
The 2 things that are in question, are on a sloped mound.
I did some measuring from the river to Llewelyn Elementary, and from there on eastward to Milwaukie Ave, then from Milwaukie Ave, to the area just north of that driving range, where the 2 things are by.
From the river to the elementary school is about 1/4 mile. Then about another 200 - 250 yards to reach Milwaukie Ave.
From Milwaukie Ave to the potential spot near the back of the barn, is about 1/2 mile.
There is a water source, going right near there, called Crystal Springs Creek, and feeds Crystal Springs Lake.
The dropped pin is about where the north end of the collapsing barn would have been, if those 2 things are the grave markers. The stump would have been next to the creek in this scenario.
Perhaps the water source would have been a real need for for a “big” stump, if measured by Oregon standards 🤓
Idahodutch
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Another thought to add for this location, is that the railroad going right past it would have been very, very convenient, for Llewelyn.
Was it incentive for yielding property crossing privileges ?
Who knows, 🤷🏼♂️.
Idahodutch
Was it incentive for yielding property crossing privileges ?
Who knows, 🤷🏼♂️.
Idahodutch
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Crow
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Hello Idahodutch
Your theory is very close to where I thought it might be? I was slightly east more? But alas all theory unless it is some day found.?However thanks for contributing to make it an interesting thread. interesting stuff all the same.
I have theory that old man Sims had an orchard and looking at records there was two Sims Milwaukie from that joined the confederacy at Tennessee .
I have theory the money came from 10 years with fruit boom supplying California with fresh fruit during the gold rush. When old Sims died his sons buried their money 3000 dollars each as they went off to civil war and one died in battle and the other died in hospital. Old man Sims died So perhaps the graves are connected to the family?
I could not find however anyone with that name owning land near Portland? The closest was independence Oregon upstream from Portland?
They maybe leased some land off the Llewellyn family? It should be noted the Llewellyn family was stanch union northern supporters.
What is interesting many people in Tennessee call toll roads pike roads. Perhaps that is connection are the two Sims from recorded from Milwaukie brothers? Perhaps that is why the money was buried in two lots of 3000?
* note the two confederates I found before i cannot find again? One thing on data bases I have access to Sims dying in 1864? None appears to died from Oregon?
Crow
Your theory is very close to where I thought it might be? I was slightly east more? But alas all theory unless it is some day found.?However thanks for contributing to make it an interesting thread. interesting stuff all the same.
I have theory that old man Sims had an orchard and looking at records there was two Sims Milwaukie from that joined the confederacy at Tennessee .
I have theory the money came from 10 years with fruit boom supplying California with fresh fruit during the gold rush. When old Sims died his sons buried their money 3000 dollars each as they went off to civil war and one died in battle and the other died in hospital. Old man Sims died So perhaps the graves are connected to the family?
I could not find however anyone with that name owning land near Portland? The closest was independence Oregon upstream from Portland?
They maybe leased some land off the Llewellyn family? It should be noted the Llewellyn family was stanch union northern supporters.
What is interesting many people in Tennessee call toll roads pike roads. Perhaps that is connection are the two Sims from recorded from Milwaukie brothers? Perhaps that is why the money was buried in two lots of 3000?
* note the two confederates I found before i cannot find again? One thing on data bases I have access to Sims dying in 1864? None appears to died from Oregon?
Crow
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Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Good morning Crow,
Llewelyn was busy. I like the idea of old man Sims being an employee of sorts to Llewelyn, along with a couple of sons …. and perhaps familiar with the area of the barn, graves, and big stump…… enough to bury loot there.
Wherever “there” was 😎😁
It was an interesting hunt, thanks again for sharing. 👍
Idahodutch
Edit: the Sims may not have owned property. Maybe they were working towards that, and the war came up?
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Crow
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Another idea crossed my mind if there map had been added to over the original are really sure its Portland Oregon? and not Portland Indiana which as a pike road?
When we thing of Portland we naturally think of Portland Oregon first? By the time?
I did find Charles Simes. But i have no proof he had any connection to Oregon?
Issac Simes both died of fever. I think they was POW that got fever in internment camps. Both was hospitalized. Perhaps one or both are connected to the story?
Remember the word "keep may until well?"
Crow
When we thing of Portland we naturally think of Portland Oregon first? By the time?
I did find Charles Simes. But i have no proof he had any connection to Oregon?
Issac Simes both died of fever. I think they was POW that got fever in internment camps. Both was hospitalized. Perhaps one or both are connected to the story?
Remember the word "keep may until well?"
Crow
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Crow
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looking through the death records of soldiers for example those above solders are on a page in US registers of deaths of volunteers 1861-1865 there 30 recorded deaths recorded. The thing that amazes me there was only one actually killed in battle on the page.
It seem for everyone killed in battle many more of died typhoid fever dysentery and small pox. and pneumonia.
Crow
It seem for everyone killed in battle many more of died typhoid fever dysentery and small pox. and pneumonia.
Crow
cw0909
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I think this was looked at before, the first methodist church portland, built by pastor Charles C. Stratton
was looking at the images, maybe the building on the far left near the wood line is the building on the
chart
this is where the church was ,a new church was built in 1867 on taylor & 3rd
maps.app.goo.gl
the other building looks a few blocks west of the church, then there was the great fire of 1873, that took out 20 blocks
so prob took out that building, even if that was the building on the chart, which way to go E,S N 2mile look for a barn
en.wikipedia.org
www.oregonhistoryproject.org
www.bettiedenny.com
www.oregonencyclopedia.org
was looking at the images, maybe the building on the far left near the wood line is the building on the
chart
this is where the church was ,a new church was built in 1867 on taylor & 3rd
45°31'00.1"N 122°40'31.3"W · 45.516694, -122.675361
maps.app.goo.gl
the other building looks a few blocks west of the church, then there was the great fire of 1873, that took out 20 blocks
so prob took out that building, even if that was the building on the chart, which way to go E,S N 2mile look for a barn
Great Fire of 1873 - Wikipedia
Portland Fire, 1873
The Great Conflagration of 1873 — Bettie Denny
Normal 0 false false false EN-US JA X-NONE &
www.bettiedenny.com
First Methodist Church (Portland)
Methodist Episcopal Church, Portland's first church, began with seven members in 1848, and by 1960 it had grown into a forward-thinking congregation of 1,833 m…
www.oregonencyclopedia.org
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Crow
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Hello CWO909
Once again great discovery. Thanks again for great input and from the those who posted.
Great find. Well done. fantastic research
Could be? Another point to work from. All way-points have their for and against. One thing that has stood out for me? Even the most well intention-ed treasure map can have many interpretations?
Especially when the map is of a landscape that has changed so dramatically over time.
We have fire floods urban development have all left their mark on the landscape.
Somewhere I think there is a lesson for us all in what ever treasure we research into?
Crow
Once again great discovery. Thanks again for great input and from the those who posted.
Great find. Well done. fantastic research
Could be? Another point to work from. All way-points have their for and against. One thing that has stood out for me? Even the most well intention-ed treasure map can have many interpretations?
Especially when the map is of a landscape that has changed so dramatically over time.
We have fire floods urban development have all left their mark on the landscape.
Somewhere I think there is a lesson for us all in what ever treasure we research into?
Crow
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Crow,
I haven’t forgot about this one, but have been waiting for the next time that I was going to be traveling to that part of Oregon, or at least in the area.
I’m hoping the snow that Portland, Or is currently getting, is not going to be still there in a couple of days.
It’s only about 2 hours out of the way to see what the 2 things, by the driving range, are.
I don’t think they are grave markers, but I would always wonder, most likely every time I go near enough to the area. 👀
If it’s actively accumulating snow as we go through, then I most likely will wait for a different trip to go look. 🤷🏼♂️
Hard to find stuff, unless we actually take time to look 🤓👍
Idahodutch
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
For those interested, on our trip to Western Oregon, the weather was good on the drive over, bu too much snow on the ground to pursue photos of the potential grave markers at East Moreland golf course.
However on our way back this morning, I thought I might get lucky, and wedrove over to the golf course to see.
It is an ice skating rink 😬🥸
This photo taken from the parking lot.
This next photo is looking north down the East side of the driving range.
This last photo is looking north along the West side of the driving range.
Bummer, it was a no go as well.
Plus all the gates were closed and locked 😐
Maybe I’ll have better luck a different time 🥹
Idahodutch
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