Books about the Knights of the Golden Circle

[Old Bookaroo]

Texas Jay:

I hope those two sources help. If anyone is interested in researching outlaws, gunfighters, stage and bank robbers, or other hardcases, as well as the history of the American West in general, I highly recommend starting with the two Ramon F. Adams bibliographies Burs Under the Saddle and Six Guns and Saddle Leather.

They are both remarkable resources!

There are University Press paperback reprints of both these that bring them within the reach of any serious researcher. While they can be located in many libraries, I think you'll want to own your own copies. Or, if you are part of a group, split the costs and share the wealth!

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

How to Research for Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting From Lead Generation to Vetting - Grab it through Amazon!

[kiddrock33]

nice link texas jay . i love books that can be viewed online . i cant afford to buy books. but i sure do like reading them.

 

[Texas Jay]

Hi kiddrock33. You are most welcome. It is a good thing for me that there are sites online that transcribe many of these old books and also that there is a great program at most public libraries known as the Interlibrary Loan Program where you can get many of these old and even scarce or rare books, from other libraries, for just the cost of postage. This price is usually just over $2.00 per book ordered. I also use eBay a lot and now have a stack of books that I purchased there which pertain mostly to Jesse James. Google books has provided our Yahoo Group with many books, online, that have been of great help to our researchers.
~Jay~
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery - all of my friends here at treasurenet are invited to join our Yahoo group where we have a lot of information on the KGC and some never-before-published photographs regarding this secretive organization.

 

[Texas Jay]

Here is a very informative book that I recently read and that we are discussing at Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery group now.

"Confederate Agent" by James D. Horan, 1954.

Here is the online version of this excellent book which was written by James D. Horan after he was the first to examine important documents about the KGC in the 1950s after they had been sealed from the public since the end of the Civil War.

http://www.archive.org/details/confederateagent011673mbp

~Texas Jay

 

[crazyzeke]

Great topic. I'm new and would like to add "On the Old West Coast" by Major Horace Bell 1930. Pages 207-217 talks about the Peralta scam in Arizona by James Revis cousin to Elisha Reavis from the "Rebel Gold" book. This book was not mentioned by Brewer and explains how James got the idea of the scam from a William Reynolds, all masons from Southern California area (El Monte) and most likely KGC members.

 

[Texas Jay]

"The Truth About Jesse James" by Rudy Turilli, 1967. This photo is of a copy of this book that I recently purchased and read.
~Texas Jay

 

[Texas Jay]

It should be noted that the book contains many witnesses' sworn and notarized statements supporting Mr. Turilli's case. This book should not be judged by people who have never read it.
~Texas Jay

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI mi buddy swr: you posted -->

"Be very careful using self-published material as reliable sources. Anybody can write a book."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How about an autobiography? Actually this true, even of history books. Quite often an incorrect fact (?) is published in one, then others subsequently include the same thing later, using the first as a correct, verifiable source. This is an all too common fault, especially in treasure books.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Texas Jay]

"The Truth About Jesse James" by Rudy Turilli, 1967, Stanton, Missouri.

I finished reading this excellent study of Jesse Woodson James a few weeks ago
after purchasing my own copy on eBay. This is another book that is quite
affordable, at least it is now, and provides all the documentation I believe a
person needs to draw an intelligent conclusion on who Jesse Woodson James was
and who he wasn't. The book contains many photographs that cannot be easily
found elsewhere.
~Texas Jay

***

Foreward:
>
> "In presenting this booklet I wish to say that I do so with the utmost
sincerity in an effort to establish facts, after exhaustive research; and to
give documented proof that the man who lived under the name of J. Frank Dalton
from 1882 until 1951 was in fact Jesse Woodson James, whose name was emblazoned
in history due to his activities with Quantrill's Guerrillas during and after
the Civil War, and as head of the highly publicized James Gang.
> Many times it has been written that Jesse W. James was shot and killed in St.
Joseph, Missouri on April 3, 1882 by Robert (Bob) Ford, presumed to have been an
acquaintance. I have obtained information on the family trees of both the James
and Ford families which indicates it is highly doubtful that a Ford would have
murdered a James, but we'll go into the proof later in this booklet.
> I have painstakingly researched into the life of Jesse W. James and did not
take previously written books and newspaper accounts for granted. I covered
more than 90,000 miles in the two years from early 1948 until the end of 1950,
and still am traveling as new information develops.
> I personally was in charge of the care of Jesse W. James, alias J. Frank
Dalton, at Meramec Caverns, Stanton, Mo., except when I was away on research as
he revealed information on his past to me, from 1948 to 1951.
> I am convinced that Jesse W. James was not killed April 3, 1882, and that to
free him when the price of $10,000 was put upon his head as a fugitive from the
law, another man was killed in his place, under a planned hoax. This was with
the knowledge of Jesse James himself, his immediate family, and other members of
the gang.
> He did not reveal his true identity until he was 100 years old, keeping an
oath taken in 1882 by all living members of the gang; by 1848 he was immune to
the death penalty by man's law. His mind was clear, though he was restive under
the handicap of a broken hip.
> With this foreward I present facts not published heretofore, and I submit that
Jesse Woodson James lived until just three weeks prior to his 104th birthday.
He died in 1951 at Granbury, Texas, and there he lies buried."
> Signed:
> Rudy Turilli
>
> ***
>
***

Dedication

"This booklet is dedicated to my dear wife, Francina and my son Lester B.
Turilli, who I hope will continue this work on the James family should anything
happen to me. I feel that the name Jesse W. James will never die and I should
like to explore further into such things as the pardon of Frank James and the
secrecy surrounding the death of Jesse's wife.

Was Jesse James Jr. the son of Jesse W. James, or was he the son of Charlie
Bigelow?

My wife Francina has patiently kept our home and cared for our children during
my many absences while I was on research trips, and Francina has also recorded
valuable information as it came for me while I was away."

Rudy Turilli

***

 

[Kentucky Kache]

The opinion of the court was delivered by: Clemens

 

[Kentucky Kache]

The opinion of the court was delivered by: Clemens

PER CURIAM: The foregoing opinion of Clemens, C., is adopted as the opinion of this court. Accordingly, the judgment is affirmed


In legal talk...that means Stella James won

Of course it means she won. The court can't be wrong, even when they have an OPINION. There is only one meaning of that word.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

The opinion of the court was delivered by: Clemens

PER CURIAM: The foregoing opinion of Clemens, C., is adopted as the opinion of this court. Accordingly, the judgment is affirmed


In legal talk...that means Stella James won

Of course it means she won. The court can't be wrong, even when they have an OPINION. There is only one meaning of that word.

You probably didn't notice this was from the Appeals Court. Turilli had already lost in the Circuit Court, and was appealing that ruling. The Appeals Court affirmed the ruling of the Circuit Court. She actually won twice. Clemens opinion is/was the Circuit Court was correct in its judgment.
Not that Clemens was making an opinion about the content being correct or not.

Hopefully, I've explained in simple enough laymen terms

added:

This is a funny footnote...even you can see the humor in this one Larry


*fn2 In a decree that probably would have King Solomon's approval, Judge R. A. Breuer ruled from the bench: "This Court is called upon to change a man's name when there is nothing to change, because he has never changed it, and by law it has never been changed from Jesse James to anything else. If he isn't what he professes to be, then he is trying to perpetrate a fraud upon this Court. If he is Jesse James, what he claims to be, then my suggestion would be that he retreat to his rendevous and ask the good God above to forgive him so he may pass away in peace when his time comes to go."

It's still an opinion, no matter what court it came from.

Who is Larry?

 

[Texas Jay]

The fact remains that Turilli never paid Stella James $10,000 and she was advised not to push it too far. Why wasn't the court's opinion enforced and Turilli forced to pay? They didn't want to push their publicity stunt too far because, by doing so, the truth of what Turilli discovered would have been brought out and Stella "James" would have been proven to be Stella Bigelow.
~Texas Jay

 

[Kentucky Kache]

It's still an opinion, no matter what court it came from.

Who is Larry?

Sure, it matters what Court it came from when debating legal issues.

The fact that it was an opinion is what I'm referring to. THAT doesn't matter which court it came from.

I have a document. It's a dictionary.

Opinion: a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty.

 

[Texas Jay]

Yes, SWR, that is a "fact". And, yes, I do have the evidence proving it but since there is no "good faith" between you and me, I will leave it up to you to do your own research and locate it yourself, if you can.
~Texas Jay

 

[Texas Jay]

Here is another excellent and descriptive article that includes actual letters
written by KGC leaders to the Editor of the Telegraph that document such things
as Texas Castles, their members, and the KGC Lone Star Flag!

http://www.tshaonline.org/shqonline/apager.php?vol=065&pag=088

Another good article can be read here:

http://www.tshaonline.org/shqonline/apager.php?vol=070&pag=551

~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Obviously it is not a legal dictionary, to which we are debating. Legal issues.


In law, an opinion (also consilia) is usually a written explanation by a judge or group of judges that accompanies an order or ruling in a case, laying out the rationale and legal principles for the ruling.

A statement that is prepared by a judge or court announcing the decision after a case is tried; includes a summary of the facts, a recitation of the applicable law and how it relates to the facts, the rationale supporting the decision, and a judgment; and is usually presented in writing, though occasionally an oral opinion is rendered.

Court opinions are the pronouncements of judges on the legal controversies that come before them. In a common-law system, court opinions constitute the law by which all controversies are settled. Attorneys analyze prior opinions on similar legal issues, attempting to draw parallels between their case and favorable court opinions and to distinguish unfavorable opinions. Judges study relevant opinions in rendering their decisions.

The majority of court opinions are not released for publication. Those that are released by the courts are collected in law books called reporters. Each state has at least one reporter that contains the opinions of its courts, and the nation has several reporters that contain the opinions of the federal courts.

...laying out the rationale and legal principles for the ruling.

...the rationale supporting the decision...

Isn't that pretty much what ANY opinion is? The only real difference is the courts are backed up by the law. Opinion mean only one thing.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Obviously it is not a legal dictionary, to which we are debating. Legal issues.


In law, an opinion (also consilia) is usually a written explanation by a judge or group of judges that accompanies an order or ruling in a case, laying out the rationale and legal principles for the ruling.

A statement that is prepared by a judge or court announcing the decision after a case is tried; includes a summary of the facts, a recitation of the applicable law and how it relates to the facts, the rationale supporting the decision, and a judgment; and is usually presented in writing, though occasionally an oral opinion is rendered.

Court opinions are the pronouncements of judges on the legal controversies that come before them. In a common-law system, court opinions constitute the law by which all controversies are settled. Attorneys analyze prior opinions on similar legal issues, attempting to draw parallels between their case and favorable court opinions and to distinguish unfavorable opinions. Judges study relevant opinions in rendering their decisions.

The majority of court opinions are not released for publication. Those that are released by the courts are collected in law books called reporters. Each state has at least one reporter that contains the opinions of its courts, and the nation has several reporters that contain the opinions of the federal courts.

...laying out the rationale and legal principles for the ruling.

...the rationale supporting the decision...

Isn't that pretty much what ANY opinion is? The only real difference is the courts are backed up by the law. Opinion mean only one thing.

Sup dude...Man on the Moon thread so bogged down you wanna argue legal terms in this thread?

Running into trouble explaining again? Will you run away again like before?

 

[Texas Jay]

Yes, SWR, that is a "fact". And, yes, I do have the evidence proving it but since there is no "good faith" between you and me, I will leave it up to you to do your own research and locate it yourself, if you can.
~Texas Jay

As thought, Jay. Nothing supporting your "facts" but the desire to argue. Your refusal to support your claims only shows other readers how the "facts" you so boldly defend are fabricated. So be it.

My refusal to support my facts to you only demonstrate that I don't believe you are trustworthy, nothing else. Every one of our 146 members of the Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery group have ready access to the proof that Turilli did not give one dime to Stella Bigelow (aka Stella James). Now, SWR, if you don't have any relevant "Books about the KGC" to share with the readers of this thread, you are free to leave. Why don't you start your own thread on this forum? You can argue with yourself there all you want. All the blabbering you do on this forum and you have not contributed a single topic. Why is that?
~Texas Jay

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Sup dude...Man on the Moon thread so bogged down you wanna argue legal terms in this thread?

Moon thread's doing okay. Just a couple there that reminds me of you when they run into trouble with their beliefs or explanations. Trot Trot Trot.

But this is another thread. Try staying on topic.