Bedrock and Gold: The mysteries . . .

[Lanny in AB]

Do you love to chase the gold? Please join me--lots of gold hunting tips, stories of finds (successful and not), and prospecting poetry.

Nugget in the bedrock tip:

I had a visit with a mining buddy this past weekend, and he told me of an epic battle to get a nugget out of the bedrock, and of what he learned from the experience. I thought some of you might like to learn from his mistake.

While out detecting one day, he came across a large sheet of bare bedrock. The bedrock was exposed because the area had been blasted off with a water cannon (a monitor), by the old-timers! It was not fractured bedrock, in fact it was totally smooth.

He was not optimistic at all of the prospects of a nugget. But, for some reason (we've all been there) he decided to swing his detector over that bedrock. After a long time, just as he was about to give up on his crazy hunch, he got a signal, right out of that smooth bedrock.

There was no crevice, no sign of a crevice, nada! So, he had to go all the way back to camp to get a small sledge and a chisel. The signal in the rock intrigued him, but he still wasn't overly optimistic. For those of you that have chased signals in a similar situation, sometimes there's a patch of hot mineralization in the bedrock that sounds off, but this spot, according to him, was sharp and clear right in the middle of the signal, not just a general increase of the threshold like you get when you pass over a hot spot in the bedrock.

Anyway, he made it back to the spot and started to chisel his way into the bedrock. If any of you have tried this, it's an awful job, and you usually wind up with cut knuckles--at the least! Regardless, he kept fighting his way down, busting out chunks of bedrock. He kept checking the hole, and the signal remained very strong.

This only puzzled him all the more as he could clearly see that it was solid bedrock with no sign of any crevice. He finally quit at the end of the day, at a depth of about a foot, but still, nothing in the hole.

An experienced nugget shooting friend dropped by the next morning to see him, and asked him how the hunt was going. My buddy related his tale of the mysterious hole in the bedrock, and told the friend to go over and check it out, and see if he could solve the riddle.

Later in the day, the other nugget hunter returned. In his hand was a fine, fat, sassy nugget. It weighed in at about an ounce and a quarter! After my friend returned his eyeballs to their sockets and zapped his heart to start it again, he asked where the nugget had come from.

Imagine his surprise when he heard it came from the mystery hole!! He asked how deep the other guy had gone into the bedrock to get it. "Well, no deeper" was his reply.

So, here's the rest of the story as to what happened. When the successful nugget hunter got to the bedrock, he scanned the surface got the same strong signal as my buddy. He widened out the hole and scanned again. Still a solid tone. He widened the hole some more so he could get his coil in, and here's the key and the lesson in this story, he got a strong signal off the side of the hole, about six inches down, but set back another inch into the side of the bedrock!!

My unlucky friend, the true discoverer of the gorgeous nugget's resting place had gone deep past the signal while digging his hole!!

Now, of course, a good pinpointer would easily solve this problem. The problem was, my buddy didn't have one, so why would he widen the hole, right? Well, the other guy was the one with more experience, and that's why he did. It was a lot more work, but what a payoff!

So, my buddy's butt is still black and blue from where he kicked himself for the next week or so for having lost such an incredible prize.

Some nugget hunting lessons are harder than others to learn. . . .

All the best,

Lanny


P.S. When in gold country--check the bedrock, regardless of whether it looks likely or not! Mother Nature likes to play games sometimes.

 

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[kiwi jw]

G'day L:anny, Yep the little joey mono is a ripper of a coil for that small gold in bed rock. You have just echoed my exact operation, method & mode of detecting with the many small nuggets I reported on finding when I was down in Central Otago over our winter just gone. S-L-O-W & L-O-W (rubbing on the ground). You cant beat it.

Happy hunting & all the best for the festive season.

JW

 

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[Lanny in AB]

Hi Lanny, thanks for the rest of that story, very well written as usual. Really awesome nugget pictures too.
Thanks also for your compliment on Eagles thread, the same comment I made about his writing applies as equally to yours.
About the blue or other stones - my humble advise is dredgers should take great notice and many samples of rocks that are not the common run of the mill types.
For those who don't already have one, get a rock identifying book and carry out simple scratch tests to identify each one. Looking out for any gem stones that may be present in your area, and being familiar with their natural appearance would also be a good idea.
While dredging in a remote gorge, I regularly walked past what I had thought of as a mineralized clay vein that intruded through igneous rock and quartz. It turned out to be a type of telluride, about 50% micro gold! Ten or so years later someone more knowledgeable got quite a few pounds of gold from a few weeks work carting and processing the deposit. Platinum group minerals are sometimes associated with alluvial gold. Dredgers in Australia used to find sapphires and emeralds as well as the occasional diamond.
Metamorphic rock areas or rivers that have run through such can contain jade which may look like any common rock on the outside. Canada, New Zealand, Australia as well as California are just some of the places where this occurs in gold areas.
If it wasn't grown on a farm someone probably mined it!
It gives a whole new dimension to any prospecting trip and interesting research for winter perusal.
Later Nuggy

Nuggy--well stated. I've found rocks dredging before, ones I might only see one in a thousand--often they're small, and they're tight on the bedrock. I probably should learn more about id'ing rocks. I did find a piece of jade once, other than that, I don't know what the others were--pretty sure no diamonds though--I've read up a bit on them, and I've done a bit of mining for sapphires before. I've always thought it would be cool to take some serious geology classes--something that's always interested me.

I will definitely pay more attention to those very rare rocks that I find while dredging--maybe just hang onto them and have someone that knows what the heck they're doing, when it comes to id'ing rocks take a look at them.

All the best,

Lanny

 

[Lanny in AB]

Wow Lanny! I have never heard what you have shared with us before! I am guilty as charged by reading your post because I am the guy who never scraped the ground with my coil....all the more to make sure you have a coil cover on....whom ever doesn't heed this advice doesn't deserve a nugget! (smile).....thanks for a great piece of advice!.....SushiDog

Sushi--I know that all of the pros already know this stuff--I wrote the post for people that are trying to find that first nugget, or for those that got lucky and found a few screamers and now can't find any, even though they're pounding great gold-bearing ground!

Thanks for everything Sushi, and all the best,

Lanny

 

[Lanny in AB]

Thanks Sushi Dog, no I'm not a geologist unfortunately, just been scrounging through rocks for a while, looking for the good stuff. Getting interested in lapidary work helped a lot. I just hope one of my little hints will be of use to help someone else. Like you I am learning plenty on here, and being entertained as well.
Thanks Eagle, yes those glaciers pushed the rocks around a fair bit, sometimes predictably - sometimes not. Two glaciation periods here, with glaciers having crossed each others paths can make things complicated in some spots.
I sense there could be a story in how you found that diamond, Eagle. I sure would like to hear how you spotted it, what sort of country it was in and what you were doing at the time. Nuggy

Don't kid yourself Nuggy--we're learning. Thanks for your hints and tips--too bad we all live so far away from each other, but so cool that we can connect so easily.

All the best,

Lanny

 

[Lanny in AB]

great advice Lanny . good story.

Thanks Strickman--I'm learning some real cool stuff from you and the people you're connected to too!

All the best,

Lanny

 

[Lanny in AB]

Great advice for todays conditions Lanny. We are all going to do a lot better if we use that method. Nuggy

Thanks Nuggy--like I've stated previously--lots of great nugget shooters already know those strategies--it's just that it seems so wrong--so against what your brain is telling you to do (to cover the maximum amount of ground possible by bookin' it all over the place as quickly as you can--been there--done that too many times). Upon reflection--I find more when I know I'm in a great area and I just rub on some slow-motion-lotion all over my head until it affects my brain (of course, I'm speaking metaphorically about the lotion!), and I just take the time to listen to what all those expensive electronics I've spent so much money on are desperately trying to tell me.

All the best,

Lanny

 

[Lanny in AB]

G'day L:anny, Yep the little joey mono is a ripper of a coil for that small gold in bed rock. You have just echoed my exact operation, method & mode of detecting with the many small nuggets I reported on finding when I was down in Central Otago over our winter just gone. S-L-O-W & L-O-W (rubbing on the ground). You cant beat it.

Happy hunting & all the best for the festive season.

JW

Kiwi--so great to see that you're back, and so glad that you're still finding the gold!! I took a quick peek at your thread earlier in the day (it's been an awful day for me--broken water line in the basement of the house . . . .), so, I'll see if I can get some time over the next couple of days to dig deeper into your posts.

It's like I was telling some of the other guys, the pros (I'd put you in that category) already know this stuff, but thanks for having my back on this one.

All the best,

Lanny

 

[SushiDog]

All of you guys are "treasure's" and "gold mines" to me! Lanny....when you wrote that post, it was for me....I know one thing....when I do find my very first gold nugget.....that "find" will only be possible because of all of you guys here....Lanny....two things for you.....first, I will be going out to the "You Bet" area this coming Sunday.....there is a hydraulic area with tailings, and across the dirt road, there is a river.....don't know the name of the river, and have only heard the water from where I was at the last time I went there.....I shall take some pics of my adventure with Kimiko's digital camera, and make a report.....and second, turn your plumbing problem into your insurance company.....SushiDog

 

[SushiDog]

***P.S***......Lanny & Kiwi.....and whomever wants to chime in on this question......okay, I understand and get the concept of going low and slow, and rubbing the coil back and forth on the ground.....****Question: Does this technique work in a shallow stream or creek? I mean, my GoldMaster can be submerged up to the box, and the property I am going to this coming Sunday has a creek that LQQKed like it was used to take water away from the hydraulic mining area....or a sluice....do any of you guys have experience with this technique with your coil under water, and rubbing the bottom with your coil? Any 411 will be appreciated....SushiDog

 

[aloysius]

Hi there Sushi,
To quickly answer your question...YES! But, and there's a big but. In my limited experience you have to be even more diligent in listening for the repeatable signal. I'll repeat that...REPEATABLE. I've found (and I'm still learning my 4500) that going from air to dry rock and then underwater or any of those combinations will produce a change in signal. I pause at each of those changes and go over those few inches of bedrock a few times to make absolutely sure that the signal change is not repeatable, then I move on real slow and real low on the bedrock. (I've just had to repair cracks that have worn through my coil cover!)
A wee tip as well, is to go over vertical cracks at different angles. As JW, Lanny et al will know, a thin crack will hide a thin nugget and present a thin surface to the coil giving a 'thin' signal, but if you go over the crevice SLOWLY, with coil horizontal as usual, then go back over each side of that crevice with the coil held at a bit of an angle. It helps to get a bigger cross-sectional area being presented to the coil and hence a 'fatter' signal. (and get the edge right in as well after you've done all that!)
Good luck to all in the coming season, have fun and be careful out there!

 

[SushiDog]

Aloysius....thanks so much for the 411! The Gold Master has a great feature, or several features, but one of the best is that if you pump the coil up and down a few times (vertically a few inches from the ground), it will automatically ground for mineralization....the tips you guys come up with amazes me! You know....I have to tell you guys the truth....right now, I have nothing to offer you guys in return, and that makes me feel really guilty and terrible because I am a "giver" and not a "taker".....I don't have the experience you guys have, and in all actuality, I am a newbie....I really don't know how I can repay you guys....if you have any idea's, then please let me know.....I am printing out all of these posts so I can take them out in the field with me.....now....the trip I have coming up this Sunday....I hope I can reach my destination because some of the roads may be closed due to snow.....but I will give it a shot, and I have a few back-up plans if game plan #1 fails due to snow road closures....all I can say is that you guys have some great minds, and you will never find this 411 in any text book either! I am deeply grateful for you guys helping me out and answering my questions.....thank you!....thank you!.....thank you!.....SushiDog

 

[nuggy]

Hi Sushi, the only kind of payment we (pretty sure I speak for the others here too) want, is the story of you finding a nugget. and a close up picture or two, go for it. Nuggy

 

[Hefty1]

Hey Sushi
I also live in Sac, waiting for dredging to reopen. ICMJ keeps me updated on when this might happen.
Dept of fish and game are having some meetings on this in Jan, Also waiting for my GB se to show up. Because i to want to get out. Cabin fever maybe. I also know Frank and Dennis at Pioneer in auburn. I stop there on my way to Forest Hill where i have a claim. Maybe we could hook up sometime.

Hefty

 

[SushiDog]

Thanks so much Nuggy and Hefti! Well....I sure don't want to let you boys down, and I hope I can make all of you proud of me! And thank for your generosity....thanks to all! You guys are great! (smile).....Hefti....thanks for your post and the invite....I am game any time you want an old war-horse to tag along....sometime last year I was in the area you mentioned, and I will be going up there (in that area) this coming Sunday (if the roads are not closed due to snow)....send me a PM and I will give you the coordinates of where I intend to go, plus, I don't want to jump anyone's claim....especially yours....SushiDog

 

[Hefty1]

Well Sushi i am no young pup either.
But i can and will keep going if i have to crawl.

 

[Hefty1]

Hey Sushi Heres a link to road closers in that area.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/tahoe/recreation/arrd/roads.shtml

Hefty

 

[SushiDog]

Thanks for the two posts Hefti....I sent you a PM just a few minutes ago....I did click on that link and have it in another window right now, and will LQQK at it after finishing this post....I will be 60 years young this February, but age is only a number....I still have that "little kid" inside of me, and that's what makes me tick! (big smile).....let me check those road closures now...SushiDog

 

[Lanny in AB]

Hi there Sushi,
To quickly answer your question...YES! But, and there's a big but. In my limited experience you have to be even more diligent in listening for the repeatable signal. I'll repeat that...REPEATABLE. I've found (and I'm still learning my 4500) that going from air to dry rock and then underwater or any of those combinations will produce a change in signal. I pause at each of those changes and go over those few inches of bedrock a few times to make absolutely sure that the signal change is not repeatable, then I move on real slow and real low on the bedrock. (I've just had to repair cracks that have worn through my coil cover!)
A wee tip as well, is to go over vertical cracks at different angles. As JW, Lanny et al will know, a thin crack will hide a thin nugget and present a thin surface to the coil giving a 'thin' signal, but if you go over the crevice SLOWLY, with coil horizontal as usual, then go back over each side of that crevice with the coil held at a bit of an angle. It helps to get a bigger cross-sectional area being presented to the coil and hence a 'fatter' signal. (and get the edge right in as well after you've done all that!)
Good luck to all in the coming season, have fun and be careful out there!

Good advice Aloysius. You're so right about the signal changing. I also liked how you introduced the concept of a nugget on edge--well done. As you've mentioned the different angle approach for pinpointing is very effective. Furthermore, just a bit more information for those just learning about coils and target location. Using the edge of a coil can be a great pin-pointer. If you're using the nose of an elliptical coil--it also works as a pinpointing aid.

What I mean is that when you get a signal, like I did when I got the bump signal right over the bedrock in my earlier post, and after I'd removed all of the accumulated soil and debris, I was then able to get what I'll call a faint signal (one with a beginning [low], middle[high], and an end[low], as I moved across the target. The problem with this is that the bedrock where I hunt is often jagged. This results from standing vertical touching sheets that have had the standing edges broken either by nature or by man. So, what you're left with is a place that makes pinpointing with the flat (bottom) surface of the coil very difficult, or almost impossible.

How do you resolve this? Well, you have to turn the coil perpendicular to the strongest part of the signal so that only the edge of the coil is scrubbing the ground (after you've crossed it back and forth from different approach vectors [crisscross] and have approximated as closely as possible about where the middle of the genuine "tone" is originating from). Then, keeping contact with the ground, you run the edge of the coil across your signal target "tone" zone until you locate the strongest area of signal location using the edge of the coil. (You should now have a much smaller target area.)

This technique will narrow down that original large target zone to a much tighter target area. Next, you cross that signal location at right angles using the edge of the coil again to find the strongest area of signal, and by this repetitive process you'll now you should be almost right over the target. But, if the bedrock is very jagged with gaps and dips, this is where the nose of a small elliptical really shines.

Now take the nose of your elliptical and put it down in the bedrock gap (if a gap is the location that results from your crisscrossing elimination tactics), and if the nugget's down there, the signal will get noticeably stronger. Dig the target gingerly as too much movement and force or prying of the sheets will make the target drop, and sometimes that drop is forever. But, if you're careful and use slow caution, you'll often retrieve the nugget this way.

However, sometimes there's another problem. How do you get the nugget out of there without it dropping into oblivion between those vertical, touching sheets of bedrock? For, when you pry the sheets apart to get to the nugget, the widened gap often lets the nugget drop (the heavy nature of gold manifestly at work here--it drops extremely fast once moved and granted some liberation).

I'm not sure of the most effective way of retrieving nuggets trapped in this fashion. Anyone got a good set of techniques for stopping the nugget from dropping into a rocky tomb you can't retrieve it from?

All the best,

Lanny

This is a picture of what I mean when I talk about vertical sheets of bedrock. Each one of these will pry apart. I have found nuggets, pickers, and flake gold trapped in rock formations like this. In this shot, this bedrock is right by the river. When you find detecting bedrock a hundred or so feet above the existing channel, where an old channel ran, sometimes you can find nice groupings of nuggets that the old channel caught eons ago.

 

[Lanny in AB]

Sushi--sounds like you might be making a local connection--hope it turns out to be golden, and please do post some pics of your adventure.

All the best, and have fun,

Lanny

 

[SushiDog]

Hi Lanny....yeah....perhaps I just might have someone locally to pal around with....we'll see.....thanks for your last post, and I have a solution to your problem.....think chimpanzee! Ha, ha, ha! When I was a kid, we always LQQKed in the street culverts for coins, and they were usually there in those days....well....here is the solution to your problem my friend....***Answer: Place a piece of bubble gum, or any gum on the end of a stick, or on a chop stick (the disposal kind), and grab your nugget with this process....worked great on all sorts of coins during our day, and the reach was really far down into that culvert....but we always got our coin! Ha, ha, ha! That's why I am always chewing gum when I go out prospecting....you just never know (smile) SushiDog