Barrels in fast water

omnicron said:
So the velocity is changing and not the volume?
Still, it should not matter what kind of Jet, standard, tri or infinity is used. The volume of slurry displaced by any jet, regardless, is replaced by water from the jet. So there should be no difference in VOLUME, just VELOCITY?

If that is the case then as we have been saying, your going backwards and processing less material because you have slowed the velocity down to a un-acceptable level. You can justify building a smaller sluice and say it's going to be more efficient but at the end of the day, a side by side comparison of two 4" dredges side by side one with a regular jet and one with a small engine/pump/infinity jet and sluice box (footprint) I bet the regular sized dredge would move more material because as I understand you, your velocity is changing and not the volume.

As I understand the laws of Physics, every force has a equal and opposite force. When you increase the positive rate of flow (pressure) you have a equal increase in suction. More suction is created by more velocity and that equals more slurry!
Right or wrong? I'm lost!
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Actually you are wrong in that assumption as it is applied to 2 different jets because each is applying the same total force on the water column, but the infinity is using less to better apply that force- the velocity leaving the jet is a function of the jet water plus the suction water.

Side by side should produce the same suction volume and thereby the same material processing rate. The only difference is how much jet volume was added in the system and fed to the box along with the suction volume. That is the goal to designing a more efficient jet/system. If you can't do that then all is for not and you need to step back and re-evaluate. Been there many times.
 

G1sammons said:
It's like this omni let's say just to make it simple Your standard jet uses 50 gallons to move another50 thru your nozzle you total going thru your box would be 100 gallons ! Now your infenty jet uses 25 gallons to move that same 50 thru your nozzle the total would only be 75gallons Now your still moving the same 50 thru your nozzle so there's no volume change there just in what's actually moving thru your box...But what I'm telling you is no one would turn there motor down to move less water just because they've have a new jet ! Except for timber ! Because he wants a smaller lighter dredge ...
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But...If your 1' of 6" hose has a volume of 1/2 cubic foot and lets say that equals 1 gallon (16cups). As that 1 gallon moves across the jet, 2 cups of water is added, so 2 cups must be displaced forward toward the flare. You still have 16 cups no mater what. You can not make it only 14 cups as water/slurry is not compressible nor expandable, to do so your metal jet would implode to fill in the "void". See, no matter what every square foot of hose and jet is going to have the same volume. Stop thinking of this in gpm, think of it in volume. You can not change the physics of non-compressible liquids and solids. You cant fit more or less into a sealed, confined space.
 

omnicron said:
But...If your 1' of 6" hose has a volume of 1/2 cubic foot and lets say that equals 1 gallon (16cups). As that 1 gallon moves across the jet, 2 cups of water is added, so 2 cups must be displaced forward toward the flare. You still have 16 cups no mater what. You can not make it only 14 cups as water/slurry is not compressible nor expandable, to do so your metal jet would implode to fill in the "void". See, no matter what every square foot of hose and jet is going to have the same volume. Stop thinking of this in gpm, think of it in volume. You can not change the physics of non-compressible liquids and solids. You cant fit more or less into a sealed, confined space.
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Velocity is just how fast water travel through the hoes . The infinity will make water travel faster to achieve these higher gpm numbers. Gpm through the same diameter hoes has to travel at the SAME speed.

There is no need to actually get that techniqual about things. If you measure the suction of two hoes that haves the same diameter hoes you will get the same gpm.

So basically when you speak about gpm you speak about suction.
When you speak about velocity which it is harder to measure just complicates things.
Is like water falling in a pipe ; the higher the fall the more velocity it will produce and the more suction AND GPM.

There is nothing closed to compress anything.
What happends is just rocks replace water and it is driven by the velocity. At a higher velocity rocks tumble and flip less since it almost seem like they are floating instead on rolling on the inner of the hoes. ANY dredge that have a 100 gpm output when you suck up some material you going to have less water.
What you will have is 90gpm and 10 percent of material via volume. Lets say 3" rock fit in a cup of water perfectly then you have a cup less of water for every 3" rock that goes through the hoes. If rocks are clogging or rubbing on each other it will make restriction and cause less gpm.
Just like you putting your feet in some thight shoes you stuggle and slow the velocity of putting it on. Same with material or water reaching their destination.

I didnt study this but i can just use common sense and figure out whats logical.

But what does this have to do with a jet that have a stronger pull that causes higher velocity through the pipe and make more gpm on its draw.

What happends to one dredge while sucking material happends to the other while both producing the same suction or gpm.
 

Why cant people get what I'm trying to say. The slurry is not compressible.
Take a fraction of a second snap shot.
Take 12" of that 6" hose.
The maximum volume of that one section is (X)
Now add in a fraction of a jet of water (S)
Lets say X=20
Lets say S=2
Now X can not be more or less then 20 or you create a rip in the space time continuum lol.
Well you will end with a void which is impossible because the slurry isn't compressible/expandable.
So in you try to add S to X, 2+20 you come up with S+X=A
Lets say A has to equal X, (A=X)
S+X=A
S+X=(A-S)=A
2+20=22-2=20
My point is The jet or hose can not hold more then then X (20cups)
But if you take X (20)
Add in High effency S of 1
X+S=A
but A still can not be more then X
X+S=(A-S)=A
20+1=21-1=20
Gosh, this isn't a hard concept. Your jet tube/hose can only physically hold only so much.
If you add in a stream of water, your displacing the SAME Volume of water so 12" before the jet you have 20 and after the jet you have 20.
Velocity is a positive number, Newton's law of Physics says for every action there is a equal and opposite reaction. As your jet sprays across the slurry, it's accelerated, this is a positive pressure. The opposite is a vacuum. The slurry is still un-compressible or expandable to the volume must remain the same. It doesn't matter if you add in 5 for S, you can not fit 25 into a fixed space that will only hold 20. The only variable is the velocity

My whole point is no matter how many gpm you induce into the slurry from the jet, the total volume at any given time will ALWAYS remain the same. I don't see how it will create a lesser volume except if its caused by speed. How much faster or slower the slurry is moving. In that case, you could deliver more volume per seconds by speeding up the flow to the jet. If you decrease the flow to the jet, the slurry will slow down but the volume per foot remains the same, just delivered slower. (lower volume based on speed)

Am I making my point?

With that said, I do not agree nor see how a lesser volume of water from the jet is going to change the volume of any given inch of the hose or jet except the speed at which it is delivered then the slurry speeds/slows down.

BTW: I am not over thinking anything, physics is physics.
 

After this long I don't think it's possible for everyone to agree. I've explained it as simply as can be. Everyone has explained their point repeatedly in many different ways. This debate has become old and I'm over it. Edit: the final word from me is omni, g, john, and I are correct.
 

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I'm done for now too. I'm simply going Missouri from here on out. When someone sees it, then I'll explain how it works. This horse has been led to water, that's all I can do.
 

Timberdoodle said:
I'm done for now too. I'm simply going Missouri from here on out. When someone sees it, then I'll explain how it works. This horse has been led to water, that's all I can do.
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This is how i feel about it .
Forget the talk and lets walk the walk .
Hope omni makes a infinity or a high efficient one like it .

For we can actually reopen this with results of out in the field.

To next time..
 

LOL come one guys! Cant you tell when someone is F'in with you guys?????
Seriously, I'm sorry if your all P'ed off.
My apology!
 

Sorry if I offended as well. You guys have been good sports. Hope we can all continue to help each other out. At the end of the day it doesn't matter whose idea is right about how a dredge system works. What matters is who got the most gold
 

principedeleon said:
I like inflatable banana boat paired together but i havent find nothing at the right price they are all $500&up just for one. It should be sweet when packing out specially in deep rivers when you dont have lift your dredge most of the time. Okay so i did found one for 130 bucks on amazon . But is a hotdog instead of a banana lol
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Put some fiberglass over that and you are in business.
 

I am late to this party , but I found it informational and entertaining as well :laughing7:

to Omni and everyone else keep that spirit :hello2:
 

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