Bahamas Information

[charlie23]

Can anyone post the link of the new law that came out in 2012? I see the Amended Antiquities Monuments and Museum Corporation Act 2011 on the website, but is there a new one out of 2012?

 

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[ScubaFinder]

PM me your email address and I'll send it to you along with the application. PDF's are a hassle to post here.

 

[bahamamike]

Can anyone post the link of the new law that came out in 2012? I see the Amended Antiquities Monuments and Museum Corporation Act 2011 on the website, but is there a new one out of 2012?

Charlie the law was amended in 2011, but was not signed into law until 2012, so in Bahamian law it will be cited as the year it was amended in the House of Assembly and the Senate. The regulations are 2012. Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[ScubaFinder]

It's been awfully quiet about the Bahamas around here....wonder why? :-) I have included my completed business model for your review below:

 

[aquanut]

ScubaFinder,
That's some crew you put together! I guess more Rum is in order for the cookout!
aquanut

 

[ScubaFinder]

John, if you only knew the rag tag bunch of scallywags I put together......the king could behead me just for associating with them. :-)

I'll smuggle a few bottles of the good Bahamian rum back next week, keeping it unopened until the cookout will be the real test.

 

[bahamamike]

Should I be scared of your new crew

 

[ScubaFinder]

Of course not Mike, we're all on your side....but any pirates that approach our salvage vessel might want to keep their heads down. :-)

I hope to be on Nassau next week meeting with the "Dr's", maybe you can join us?

 

[signumops]

Say, just for a grin, I got out Claudio's book, "Galleons And Sunken Treasure" which has an appendix with over a thousand Spanish wrecks listed containing their name, year of loss, approximate location, source file and so on and I culled out this list of ships that may easily be in Bahama waters, since nobody knows much about their final resting place.


YEAR: 1522 VESSEL: Ship of Antonio Sanchez
LOCATION: Unknown, of Tierra Firme
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion, legajo 4929
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1529 VESSEL: Ship of Andres Suarez
LOCATION: Unknown, of Santo Domingo
CITATION: APS, Deicio I, libra II, pf. 565
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1532 VESSEL: Santa Barbara
LOCATION: Between Florida and Bermuda
CITATION: APS, Deicio V, pg. 45
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1546 VESSEL: Ship of Pero Agustin
LOCATION: Unknown, of New Spain
CITATION: AGI, Indiferente General, 858
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1552 VESSEL: Santa Catalina
LOCATION: Of Tierra Firme, Between Cartagena and Havana
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion, 2898
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1554 VESSEL: A ship
LOCATION: Unknown, of Santo Domingo
CITATION: AGI, Indiferente General, 2000
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1554 VESSEL: Bretendona
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean, of Tierra Firme
CITATION: AGI, Indiferente General 2000
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1562 VESSEL: A Pedro Menendez Galleon
LOCATION: Frente a Cuba, of New Spain
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 5104
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1563 VESSEL: El Angel Bueno
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean, of New Spain
CITATION: AGI, Indiferente General 2001
REMARKS: A rich cargo

YEAR: 1574 VESSEL: Santa Ana
LOCATION: Between Cuba and Jamaica. Of Spain
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 2898
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1576 VESSEL: Ship of Galindo
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean, of Tierra Firme
CITATION: AGI, Santo Domingo 99
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1579 VESSEL: Ship of Gonzalo Manrique
LOCATION: Between Florida and Bermuda
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 5109
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1579 VESSEL: Ship of Cristobal Galindo
LOCATION: Between Florida and Bermuda
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 5109
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1579 VESSEL: Ship of Juan Luis de Chavez
LOCATION: Between Florida and Bermuda
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 5109
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1579 VESSEL: Ship of Manuel Fernandez
LOCATION: Between Florida and Bermuda
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 5109
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1584 VESSEL: Espiritu Santo
LOCATION: Of Spain, near Cartagena
CITATION:
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1586 VESSEL: A ship
LOCATION: Gulf of Mexico
CITATION: AGI, Santo Domingo 126
REMARKS: transported payroll of the troops of Cuba

YEAR: 1589 VESSEL: Jesus Maria
LOCATION: Between Florida and Bermuda
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 4381
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1591 VESSEL: Nuestra Senora del Rosario
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion, 733
REMARKS: Capitana of Tierra Firme with a a rich cargo

YEAR: 1591 VESSEL: Galleon Santa Catalina
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion, 733
REMARKS: with a rich cargo

YEAR: 1591 VESSEL: El Rosario
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion, 733
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1591 VESSEL: San Juan Bautista
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion, 733
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1591 VESSEL: San Antonio
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion, 733
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1591 VESSEL: Ship of Fuentiduefto
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion, 733
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1591 VESSEL: La Pena de Francia
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion, 733
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1591 VESSEL: Santa Maria del Jacal
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion, 733
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1591 VESSEL: Salvadora
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion, 733
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1591 VESSEL: San Pedro
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion, 733
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1591 VESSEL: La Magdalena
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion, 733
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1593 VESSEL: Santa Maria de San Vicente
LOCATION: Of New Spain, Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 735
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1593 VESSEL: La Trinidad
LOCATION: Of New Spain,Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 735
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1595 VESSEL: Galleon San Martin
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 5187
REMARKS: Capitana of New Spain, a rich cargo

YEAR: 1595 VESSEL: Almiranta vieja de New Spain
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 5187
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1595 VESSEL: La Criolla
LOCATION: Between Florida and Bermuda
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 5187
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1600 VESSEL: Nuestra Senora de la Concepcion
LOCATION: Between Florida and Bermuda
CITATION: AGI, Indiferente General 1116
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1601 VESSEL: Ship of Juan Morales
LOCATION: Gulf of Mexico
CITATION: AGI, Mexico 351
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1614 VESSEL: San Miguel
LOCATION: Of New Spain , Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AHCC, legajo 517
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1615 VESSEL: Ship of Francisco Ruiz
LOCATION: Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 5188
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1618 VESSEL: Nuestra Senora de la Asuncion
LOCATION: Unknown. De Santo Domingo
CITATION: AHCC, 522
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1621 VESSEL: El Rosario
LOCATION: Of Tierra Firme, Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AHCC, 512
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1622 VESSEL: San Agustin
LOCATION: Of New Spain , Between Florida and Bermuda
CITATION: AGI, Indiferente General 1869
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1622 VESSEL: Unknown
LOCATION: Between Florida and Bermuda
CITATION: AGI, Indiferente General 1869
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1624 VESSEL: Espiritu Santo
LOCATION: Of Tierra Firme, Between Florida and Bermuda
CITATION: AGI, Indiferente General 754
REMARKS:


YEAR: 1655 VESSEL: A ship of Buenos Aires
LOCATION: South Atlantic Ocean
CITATION: AGI, Lima 58
REMARKS: a very rich cargo

YEAR: 1660 VESSEL: An Aviso ship
OCATION: Between Florida and Bermuda
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 5179
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1730 VESSEL: Nuestra Sra. del Rosario y Sta. Isabel
LOCATION: Between Cartagena and Havana
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 2901
REMARKS:

YEAR: 1731 VESSEL: Ship of Cordoba
LOCATION: Between Florida and Bermuda
CITATION: AGI, Contratacion 5146
REMARKS:

 

[Castaway]

Does anybody know if any applications have been submitted or approved?

 

[Chagy]

Still waiting.......................................................................

 

[ScubaFinder]

Last time I spoke with Mike was several weeks ago. At that time, 12 applications had been filed and he was in the process of choosing his 5 recommendations. No permits have been awarded, in fact I don't think they have even made it to the Prime Minister yet. I've been working like a dog and traveling a lot too. I'm overdue for a phone call to Mike anyways...I'll let you know if I hear anything else.

Jason

 

[Dell Winders]

Many Thanks, Jason.

Dell

 

[AUVnav]

I am recent to the forum, so this thread is of new information to me. In reading through this thread, the opportunity does indeed appear legit and organized. Not sure why the issues of the bond, it is a bond after all, most bonds can be had for 10-25% depending on your business history.
UCH License Application
UCH License Requirements
AMMC Act

There are certainly a few concerns, one by the government where Mike stated they had been burned environmentally by treasure hunters in the past. What is the context of this? The Bahamas has pristine waters and many underwater preserves, so it is not apparent what is considered environmental damage, nor what may be allowed or not allowed, and what it may take to get shut down.
For many environmental concerns, the turbidity is a major concern, and this is very difficult to mitigate or control, with large area affect. Is there a baseline measurement of turbidity and what will be allowed by area or distance?

The issue of ownership and sovereignty is a huge concern, and I am not sure the statement that the Bahamanian Govt will not entertain ownership claims is the end of the story. The Bahamas are still part of the Commonwealth, and recognize the Queen as Head of State, so how that affects the issue is unknown.
A Company based in the US, may have claims filed against them in US Courts, or when leaving territorial waters, may be subject to search/seizure, even by US Authorities under reciprocity. As we have recently been aware, the Spanish have no problem seizing a vessel in international waters.

Is anyone aware of the Spanish, Portuguese, or other potential government sovereign or ownership positions in these regards?

What is another specific concern is the stabilization and conservation of the artefacts. Its is veiled, and not clear, where the cost of this comes from. While the Government keeps 25%, graded by points, the point system is not detailed, and stabilization, conservation, training of local authorities, and display of the artefact are referenced. Are all of these costs associated with the point system? Perhaps the artefacts may be recovered gratis for the associated 'costs'.
This bears careful discussion with the Government.

 

[aquanut]

cookout

Mike,
You said it's possible you could make the cookout. It would be a perfect opportunity for you to meet and evaluate the resources we have here. Let me know!
Aquanut

 

[ScubaFinder]

AUV,

I can only speak to the artifact conservation issue. I have volunteered my help and expertise in designing and building out the new artifact conservation lab. There are several people who are offering to donate time, equipment, and money to help get the lab up and running. I don't believe the costs will be pulled out of your division of treasure or anything like that.

This is simply a test run of 5 permits to see if there is a way we can all work together towards a common goal. There is not a lot of government funding for the project, nor is there a lot of government involvement other Michael and his staff. If we can get 5 good teams over there who are as interested in preserving Bahamian history as they are in gaining personal wealth, then we can make something of this. This is more about archaeology, tourism, and helping the Bahamian people preserve their history than it is about treasure hunting. The treasures will make great museums and tourist destinations, and sure 75% of the coins will end up with the salvors who brought them up. I think they are looking for people with the right attitude and ambition, not the biggest boat or deepest pockets. Its quite refreshing, not at all what we are used to, and a HUGE step in the right direction if you ask me.

Jason

 

[AUVnav]

Jason,

That sounds great, and is certainly an opportunity to preserve, record, and allow for many people to enjoy the UCH.

I am certainly for low impact recovery.
I am sorry, but I guess I envision the typical mailbox setup blowing sediment everywhere, clouding up the waters, and silting up the coral beds.....I am hoping this is not the case.

Glad to see that you are helping out getting the lab set up, good will can go a long ways. I have great luck getting the plastic shipping containers that they ship seafood in, about 4 foot square and 3 foot deep. very study and can be forked or hand forked around when full...and stacked 3 high...not sure if they are available at your location or not, but they work great.

Good luck!

Auv

 

[ScubaFinder]

Thanks for the tip on the seafood containers! I haven't tried them but they sound perfect.

I did some of my own turbidity studies in Jupiter and while I was in Sebastian, and what I saw relaxed me a great deal about prop-wash excavation. I dove the same areas several hundred times, often every day for several months on end. The most important thing I noticed, is that Beach Nourishment is the WORST thing EVER done to our reefs bar none! I saw this action destroy (kill) reefs in Sebastian and Jupiter. At Jupite r Inlet, you can LITERALLY watch the sand being pulled away from the beach and deposited on the reefs deep enough to snuff our any corals that were living there.

Propwash excavation does create turbidity that usually settles back to the bottom within a few hours and isn't carried terribly far. Seeing what an average nor'easter does as far as turbidity and depositing sand on the reefs is far more detrimental and widespread than any treasure hunting activities. Short of blowing directly down onto living corals, mother nature is far more destructive to the reefs than we are. I don't know many treasure hunters now days who would blow on top of living corals, most respect mother ocean, the ones who don't shouldn't be allowed to work anywhere.

 

[AUVnav]

I agree with you completely on the Beach work, I also remember the ill fated breakers made of old tires, think we are still trying to clean up that mess.
I know Nature does its best, but the remaining coral systems have prevailed...its great to see that you have a deep appreciation for the underwater systems.
It is a tough dance, but it looks like with people like you involved, that there will be benefits to all...

 

[ScubaFinder]

It is a tough dance, but it looks like with people like you involved, that there will be benefits to all...

I think you give me way too much credit, but thanks! I do care very much about the environment and the history behind what we do. Before I started treasure hunting I was raising captive bred animals for the ornamental aquarium trade in an effort to reduce wild collecting of corals and fish. One of my good friends and treasure hunting partners Steve McAdoo was also involved and I met him through those efforts. Now we are preparing to take his vessel to the Bahama's to work. Small world!