Atlantis

[sdcfia]

But do you believe it can do such a damage? If you look as example at Tanis and how far stone fragments was thrown away and that stones are burned from just one side, it speaks more for an impact and heat and shock waves from one direction. You find also in this area Desert glass which is clearly connected to meteorites.

PS The Sun should never "nova" directly over my head! I would react very angry!

Start by watching the Suspicious Observer daily YouTube videos - hard science, disruptive facts. Same goes for the Thunderbolt Project videos. This will begin to explain the true nature of the universe (electromagnetic) and why mainstream theories are being ****canned.

Then read the two Chan Thomas books that were classified by the CIA in the 1960s. Other than pure governmental propaganda ("USA better than Russia"), realize that the 1969 moon mission was all about collecting glass beads from the lunar surface.

Finally, move on to the works of Douglas Vogt. Particularly his cataclysm hard science presentations. If you can buy into those, then try his deeper probe into the nature of reality.

Or, just stick to the more comfortable narratives we were all taught.

 

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How to Research for Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting From Lead Generation to Vetting - Grab it through Amazon!

[Tom_Restorer]

Start by watching the Suspicious Observer daily YouTube videos - hard science, disruptive facts. Same goes for the Thunderbolt Project videos. This will begin to explain the true nature of the universe (electromagnetic) and why mainstream theories are being ****canned.

Then read the two Chan Thomas books that were classified by the CIA in the 1960s. Other than pure governmental propaganda ("USA better than Russia"), realize that the 1969 moon mission was all about collecting glass beads from the lunar surface.

Finally, move on to the works of Douglas Vogt. Particularly his cataclysm hard science presentations. If you can buy into those, then try his deeper probe into the nature of reality.

Or, just stick to the more comfortable narratives we were all taught.

Thanks Buddy! Very interesting

 

[Tom_Restorer]

John Antony West. One of the few egyptologists who is on the right side

 

[sdcfia]

Another YouTube channel that visits little-covered ancient sites. Check out his videos list. This is his latest. The newspaper story cited is similar to the 1918 Grand Canyon story.

 

[KANACKI]

Hello sdcfia

Great post.

It reminds me of a story of group of treasure hunters 5 men and one women obtained information of a treasure cave in mountains of mexico. They traveled down south over the border from America into Mexico. It might of been in 1920'S or early 1940's before WW2. They was led to a well like cave entrance. The first cave like a cave with pictographs and ancient skeletons but there was opening to a deeper cavern through a well lie hole. They had to abseil deeper into this well like cavern. Along with well like cavern was various side tunnels of niches enough for a bodies and artifacts.

Well apparently the group was not well revived by locals as they was seen violation their sacred site and local bandits got involved And group had conflict of interest themselves as greed kicked in Several of the group died. One later died WW2 and 1 man and women lived up until the late 1970's. The women later left details of story to her Grandson with some artifacts from the cave. He I believe still still lives in Los Angeles.

Some of the artifacts ended up in private collection. The UNESCO convention protected private collection before 1973. I think this is one of the artifacts below. Olmec funeral mask. I think this one was eventually donated back to a museum in the early 1970's.







Kanacki

 

[BillA]

Hi Kanacki

Olmec metalwork ? ? ?

 

[KANACKI]

Hi Kanacki

Olmec metalwork ? ? ?

Hello BillA

A good question?

The Olmec civilization, which flourished from 1200–400 BCE, defines the Pre- Classical period; the Olmecs are generally considered the forerunner of all Mesoamerica cultures including the Maya and Aztecs. Primarily centered in the modern states of Tabasco and Veracruz in the Gulf of Mexico, the Olmec people are known for creating an abundance of small and extraordinarily detailed jade figurines. The figurines typically exhibit complex shapes such as human figures, human-animal composites of deities and gods, and animals like cats and birds. Although we don’t know the specific purpose of these jade objects, their presence in some Olmec graves suggests they served a religious purpose in addition to being signs of wealth and goods for trade.

Where were the ancient Olmec jade and metal mines? ... Archeologists had come to the conclusion that only rudimentary gold metalwork was used in ancient times. It was believed that the various cultures like the Olmec did not know how to work metals until the Aztec and Mayans. While orthodox archeology in the 1950s come to conclusion that Olmec culture did not produce gold metal work because the assumption that gold working did not occur before 700AD in in Mexico. However the fact remains metal working in Peru evolved around 1200 BC. Yet in short period of time the Aztec and Mayan began working metals. Later research has questioned that hypothesis.

That accounts of conquistadors of the Aztec noted that some gold was in crude ingots and the Aztec inferred they was from upsurged cultures and recycled. Thus there is growing consensus that gold working of artifacts in Mexico at least much earlier than than first concluded. While the Olmec culture was defined only by its Jade mask production as well large heads. Little was given to gold workings because no gold working could be directly attributed to them. Specifically at their key identified archeological sites. But here is the problem Olmec culture expanded further than their perceived borders. And other Archaeologist hypothesized that as the Olemec culture declined most of that cultures gold artifacts was absorbed by the post Olmec culture then into Mayan and Aztec cultures.

However a recent re investigation into artifacts discovered in 1920s later challenged 1950s conclusion that Olmecs did not work gold? that when 10 graves was found hidden in caves in the hills near the Monte Alban Archaeological site, belonging to the Zapotec culture.

Some Artifacts found was believed to have Olmec influence. The Olmec's decline from Whatever the cause, within a few hundred years of the abandonment of the last Olmec cities, successor cultures became firmly established. The Tres Zapotes site, on the western edge of the Olmec heartland, continued to be occupied well past 400 BCE, but without the hallmarks of the Olmec culture ie jade head masks. This post-Olmec culture, often labeled Epi-Olmec, has features similar to those found at Izapa, some 550 km (330 miles) to the southeast Which evolved into the classic Veracruz culture. Which in-turn was absorbed by Zapotec. The archaeological zone of Monte Alban, belonging to the Zapotec culture.

The caves around Mt Alban was looted by treasure hunters in a era looting graves was acceptable and thus the context of these finds are admittedly ill defined. Cave 7 was the only cave not looted by treasure hunters. Ancient Olmec artifacts lay side by side with artifacts from later cultures. Monte Alban developed through 4 distinct periods in which Olmec artifacts became absorbed into later cultures such as the ones mentioned above. Thus the mask was found in situ with Olmec jade masks questions the orthodox view.

Which suggests that archeologists incorrectly defined Olmec culture by identifying the style alone on Jade stone heads and masks alone.

Thus why the above gold piece is an important work. However who knows how much is still in private hands or just melted down for its gold content?

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

Hola Kanacki,

Agree with most, except the metals bit. It is specifically the transition from stone to metal that interests me, recall my story of the native copper bar in central Mexico (Mixteca Culture). I live at one of the waypoints (Diquis Culture) on the path of metalworking from presumably South America. I am indeed familiar with the artifact recycling done by the ancients and have seen some extraordinary pieces of Mayan jade in CR.

There is a fairly common transition from lithic to metal; starts with the collection of naturally occuring metals and their working and eventually smelting ore etc.
Copper and gold are the initial metals available depending on location, and both were available to the Olmecs. I do not believe that the Olmecs knew how to work metals, and then that technology was lost for 1100 years.

Another point to consider is the transition from jade to gold; to my understanding gold always displaced jade, at least as ornamentation. The 2 did not co-exist as equals. Again, the Diquis Culture straddled that transition as metalworking technology moved eventually to Mexico. (Hence my interest in foundry type activities such as cooking rocks in N. America.)

And last (this must be a bore), the iconography to me is most certainly not Olmec. There are posters far more qualified than I who could opine.
That the mask could have been found with Olmec pieces - who knows once removed ?

Like map superimposition, I do not know how to do a image search; where did that photo come from ?

edit: - hey sorry Atlantis guys for the off-topic posts, 1 or 2 more

 

[KANACKI]

Good morning BillA

The Photo was taken at exhibition of fine art museum in Dallas. The photo was attributed to the later Aztec Mixtec period Monte Alban is a UNESCO World Heritage, pre-Columbian archaeological site. It was inhabited as early as 800 BC and over a 1500 year period had the Olmec, Zapotec, and Mixtec civilizations using the site for different purposes. Zapotec occupation of the site may be dated with certainty by about the 1st century BCE. The beginning of the third and most flourishing phase of Monte Albán corresponds to the Classic Period (300–900 CE). The influence of the Teotihuacán architectural style is quite evident; the zenith of the period was reached circa 500. During the ensuing fourth period, about which little is known, Monte Albán lost its political preeminence, and its structures began to decay. In the final phase, which lasted up to the Spanish conquest in the 16th century, the Mixtec inhabited the site; they reused some of the old Zapotec tombs, and the two cultures became fused.

The Zapotec did the same to earlier cultures of the first period and with trade with declining cultures. Monte Alban is a UNESCO World Heritage, pre-Columbian archaeological site. It was inhabited as early as 800 BC and over a 1500 year period had the Olmec, Zapotec, and Mixtec civilizations using the site for different purposes. While artifact was attributed to later Aztez period there was no indicative dating of the artifact. But by no means definitive Omec either. However all item its was buried alongside was Olmec origin.

I Have an old newspaper details of objects found.



My apologies in advance for deviating from Atlantis topic.

Kanacki.

 

[KANACKI]

Hello BillA

Another point archaeologists who question metal working in Mexico is not questioning direction metal working spread through the america? But the date it arrived in Mexico ?
Many suspect metal work first came through trade via Costa Rica along the land bridge from South America. Most likely and logically so, but what they questioning is the dates of this transition? Most of the art and artifacts uncovered in Costa Rica during the 20th century lack context, coming either directly from for-profit looters, or from pre-scientific archaeologists who did their work in the grab-and-go method of Indiana Jones. The dates of metalworking there could be much older than first thought? Trade with Olmec culture was much earlier than first thought long before AD700 .

Their beginnings have traditionally been placed between 1400 and 1200 BC, and Olmec remains discovered at the Preclassic shrine, El Manatí, near San Lorenzo moved further back to "at least" 1600–1500 BC. It seems that the Olmec had their roots in early farming cultures, which began between 5100 BC and 4600 BC.

The Mesoamerican Olmec flourished around 1400 BC near the Bay of Campeche off the Gulf of Mexico. They inhabited the south-eastern part of the state of Veracruz and Tabasco western part of the state, with three most important centers of La Venta, San Lorenzo and Tres Zapotes. It is fair to say those areas was non metalworking areas right so because there was not the available easy metals to obtain.But there Other evident signs of their presence are related to Puebla, Morelos, Guerrero, which means that they occupied the area from the Atlantic to the Pacific coast. Most likely, the expansion of them reached up to the countries of Central America: Guatemala, Belize, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua and Costa Rica. This did not come about by conquest but with trade through indigenous groups in which in time metalworking spread north into mexico.

Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

Hello BillA

After much reading peer reviewed research on The Olmec culture by viewing both cases for and against Olmecs having a credible metalworking industry in their culture. It appears that the 1958 conclusion is right. And the archeologists that question that conclusion cannot provide a conclusive evidence to prove otherwise. While graves sites found with Olmec artifacts in later cultures graves can explained by recycling of ancient artifacts into later culture as "collectibles" Such as the Romans highly prized Greek artifacts. See picture below of 2010 grave-site below.



Thus the vast majority of metal objects in such graves sites are not Olmec but later artifacts. While Gold did replace jade for such goods of the ruling elite in venerating Gods. The Olmec did indeed did not have skills and resources to produce such metalwork. While there might be a credible question on the time frame when metal working arrived in Mexico 700 AD it was not in Olmec period dating roughly from as early as 1500 BCE to about 400 BCE.

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

Hi Kanacki,

briefly and I'm out
A whole lot of speculation involved, completely wrt Olmec metalworking because, apart from the complete absence of Olmec metal artifacts, it becomes necessary to explain the lack of metalworking in the subsequent civilizations.

that newspaper clipping is as poor a 'report' as I have seen, pearls and jewels collected by indians - what tripe !

to be continued in a more appropriate thread,
sorry guys

edit: crossed posts, we agree it seems

 

[KANACKI]

Once again my apologies for digressing a little. Back to Atlantis.

Perhaps the island of Thera and the catastrophic eruption leading to destruction of the Minoan civilization became the inspiration of the Atlantis story?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption

According to the dialogues, Socrates asked three men to meet him on this day: Timaeus of Locri, Hermocrates of Syracuse, and Critias of Athens. Socrates asked the men to tell him stories about how ancient Athens interacted with other states. The first to report was Critias, who told how his grandfather had met with the Athenian poet and lawgiver Solon, one of the Seven Sages. Solon had been to Egypt where priests had compared Egypt and Athens and talked about the gods and legends of both lands. One such Egyptian story was about Atlantis.

The Atlantis tale is part of a Socratic dialogue, not a historical treatise. The story is preceded by an account of Helios the sun god's son Phaethon yoking horses to his father's chariot and then driving them through the sky and scorching the earth. Rather than exact reporting of past events, the Atlantis story describes an impossible set of circumstances which were designed by Plato to represent how a miniature utopia failed and became a lesson to us defining the proper behavior of a state.

Kanacki

 

[sdcfia]

Once again my apologies for digressing a little. Back to Atlantis.

Perhaps the island of Thera and the catastrophic eruption leading to destruction of the Minoan civilization became the inspiration of the Atlantis story?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption

According to the dialogues, Socrates asked three men to meet him on this day: Timaeus of Locri, Hermocrates of Syracuse, and Critias of Athens. Socrates asked the men to tell him stories about how ancient Athens interacted with other states. The first to report was Critias, who told how his grandfather had met with the Athenian poet and lawgiver Solon, one of the Seven Sages. Solon had been to Egypt where priests had compared Egypt and Athens and talked about the gods and legends of both lands. One such Egyptian story was about Atlantis.

The Atlantis tale is part of a Socratic dialogue, not a historical treatise. The story is preceded by an account of Helios the sun god's son Phaethon yoking horses to his father's chariot and then driving them through the sky and scorching the earth. Rather than exact reporting of past events, the Atlantis story describes an impossible set of circumstances which were designed by Plato to represent how a miniature utopia failed and became a lesson to us defining the proper behavior of a state.

Kanacki

My working model was the same as yours for many years, but I changed my mind for reasons stated in Post #1856. I don't know how we'll ever know the complete answers to the questions.

 

[KANACKI]

I do not think there will ever be exact answers and perhaps that is why so many here find such topics illusive and mystifying.

Kanacki

 

[Tom_Restorer]

I do not think there will ever be exact answers and perhaps that is why so many here find such topics illusive and mystifying.

Kanacki

That´s simply wrong and more and more evidences showing up lately! Also there are more as enough ancient sources that describes very exactly the location in the northern sea!

But when most evidences are intentional suppressed, I don´t wonder why people think that way.

If anyone is real interested, I will take the lot time, translate all the stuff in english and post it here!

 

[Tom_Restorer]

Thats the guy Zahi. Knew the name just couldnt remember it. Yea your are totally right on that guy.

I myself lean more to what some others have come out and said about the sphinx. That yes it was re carved. Its not even the body of a cat. But of a dog. The head being way way to small for the body. If we are talking about how it was carved and looking at the rest of egypt. Its very poorly done in sense when compared to many of the other sites. Statues and colums.
I found this pic of what it could have looked like
View attachment 1410231

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

That´s right, it was a dog!

The oldest Sphinx with a human head I know is the one of Sesostris III. from Middle Kingdom. I don´t know one single piece with a human head from early dynastic period.

To compare:

The oldest dog races (Shepard) from the cold north and from Egypt with short hair

 

[KANACKI]

That´s simply wrong and more and more evidences showing up lately! Also there are more as enough ancient sources that describes very exactly the location in the northern sea!

But when most evidences are intentional suppressed, I don´t wonder why people think that way.

If anyone is real interested, I will take the lot time, translate all the stuff in English and post it here!

Sorry Tom

I try to subscribe to facts not Hypothesis based on some one else Hypothesis.

You have groups who scream Atlantis is off Spain , near the Azores, Caribbean, UK, north sea, west off wales. Off Cornwall. Island of Thera. Another group believes the united state itself was Atlantis. Hell there is even a group claiming Atlantis is in the Sahara? There is no doubt each group has a genuine belief there site is this mythical site. Because the facts they have assembled to support their hypothesis is based around their own pre determined bias or agendas. Any fact that contradict their theory they ignore.

And when their pet Hypothesis falls down they screen "international conspiracy" to conceal the truth. Time to take the tin foil hat off and look at the Atlantis story what is. However interesting.

While I have no doubt that archaeological sites are under the water due to various reasons I do not automatically subscribe them as proof to Atlantis. And indeed I agree when researching any topic one should consult all research from all languages. As some times bias in the English speaking world can indeed miss vital information.

That said New age tin foil on the head conspiracy theories are not just the Provence of the English speaking world either.

If you have peer reviewed document in other languages then please feel free to post. I am sure many here would be interested.

Kanacki

 

[Tom_Restorer]

View attachment 1410524

Blue eyed visitors to South America

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

They also descried them as blue eyed, bearded and with red or blond hair!
The vessel shows a swastika motive. Do you know where it comes from?
The zodiac small car creates in the north a swastika in the four seasons when it rotates around Polaris! This is not to see that way in the south.

That´s also the reason why you find it in India. After the comet Phaeton hit the north American ice sheet 12800 years ago and fragments from his tail also hit Island, Heligoland (Atlantis). The surviving people went to the south and to other places on earth and brought that knowledge with them. In India you still find today in the highest caste people with blond or red hair and blue or green eyes and their own stories tell that they came from the north! So this term "Indo-germanic" and what historians tells us by intention, is complete B/S because the northern people did n´t came from the Indian area at all! Genetic tests and the Haplo groups proof this!

There are so many cultures around the world which all tell all the same story that the primeval ones came from the north and brought the culture etc. after the great flood! In Egypt this story is still written in stone! But all this information is suppressed since 75 years and everything gets faked to push the white race down and keep up this B/S "out of Africa theory" and the Ex oriente lux B/S up!

 

[Tom_Restorer]

Sorry Tom

I try to subscribe to facts not Hypothesis based on some one else Hypothesis.

You have groups who scream Atlantis is off Spain , near the Azores, Caribbean, UK, north sea, west off wales. Off Cornwall. Island of Thera. Another group believes the united state itself was Atlantis. Hell there is even a group claiming Atlantis is in the Sahara? There is no doubt each group has a genuine belief there site is this mythical site. Because the facts they have assembled to support their hypothesis is based around their own pre determined bias or agendas. Any fact that contradict their theory they ignore.

And when their pet Hypothesis falls down they screen "international conspiracy" to conceal the truth. Time to take the tin foil hat off and look at the Atlantis story what is. However interesting.

While I have no doubt that archaeological sites are under the water due to various reasons I do not automatically subscribe them as proof to Atlantis. And indeed I agree when researching any topic one should consult all research from all languages. As some times bias in the English speaking world can indeed miss vital information.

That said New age tin foil on the head conspiracy theories are not just the Provence of the English speaking world either.

If you have peer reviewed document in other languages then please feel free to post. I am sure many here would be interested.

Kanacki

Kanacki, all this other theories are indeed B/S because they got NOTHING! Not one single evidence, not one single historical proof from old texts which fit the location etc.!
That´s why I said, if anyone is interested I can show enough stuff, even when this means a lot of work and time for me.
Don´t know if you read what I posted earlier about the Egyptian texts which still exists and which are way older than Platos story about Atlantis. Did you ever read or heard about the old stories of many other cultures around the world who describe all the same about the great flood and where the primeval came from? Or do you know that they exist? I guess not because it is hard work to find this texts and hints!
What most people has as "information" are books from a lot of crazy people who even not thought about what Plato has written and the hints about the location he has given.

Btw, if a chain of comets hit the earth with the power of thousand of nukes, what do you thing is left from an early high culture? It wiped out the Clovis people and changed entire USA into what it looks today with the grand canyon etc. The impact is scientific proven and dated by Hancock and Carlson and how Plato described it - Solon heard it the first time at 600 B.C. + 9000 years before Plato visit egypt + the 2000 Years A.D =12.600 years. The 200 years error may depends on the modern dating method. Did you seen the videos of Hancock and Carlson? I posted them some pages before and they are real important to watch because it is directly connected to the destruction of Atlantis.
Did you ever heard about the perfect square megalith structures in northern Russia? The single blocks weights thousands of tons. Similar perfect square structures and broken columns in south west to north east direction (remember the impact crater in the northern sea right in front of the river delta of the Elbe and in which direktion buildings would fall after an impact) was just found from same expedition group which also found the man made eastern sea anomaly. Unfortunately in the northern sea it is forbidden to make any private researches and also scientists hands are bound in most cases. The UNESCO declared the interesting area as a "National Park"! Who wonders about? It is a dirty place of mud, the water is polluted by thousands of ships who drive up the Elbe and in the impact crater they dumped over decades any kind of toxic waste and stuff..."National Park....my @ss! And in our country archeologists just go down to medieval or to bronze age levels if they lie high enough, but not any deeper! After such a great flood everything from an ancient high culture would be buried under Meters of sediments. And what was may to find in the ground of the island Heligoland was massive bombed by the Brits until the 50s with more bombs on that small Island than on entire germany was thrown in WWII ! I guess someone thought that the finds of the Herzsprung shields (which depicts Atlantis as Plato described it) around this area up to Denmark are critical enough

I will put the stuff together after the burial of my mother in law and when all stress is over and post it in different parts!