Atlantis

also rebel, the flood, i know a guy who went to the british museum working on a book about noahs ark in the Ararat mountains, apparently he found some compelling evidence about noah being there in the range of mountains not specifically ararat mountains itself.

Also to update you all still not been able to go to turkey yet, due to fighting going on in the east, hopefully its all starting to settle over the next few months. just too dangerous for a brit to go around digging up ground.
 

Real of Tayopa said:
Fascinating report / article EU, which do you favor ??
Click to expand...

:tongue3: I honestly didn't expect anyone to read the "long version".:tongue3:

From a geologic standpoint we had a largescale melting of the glaciers starting around 13000-12000 BC. (the exact date is slightly variable among scientists)
It seems likely to me that it somehow relates.

The question is: Do we have proof? What glacial lakes were there in the time period?

We know that Scandinavia had the baltic ice lake. For some time, it water was built up and then either went through denmark or the middle of Sweden.
Near Billingen. So, there were floods I'd guess. But at what scale is unknown to me.

Little evening lecture on the baltic ice lake:
http://www.geologinenseura.fi/bulletin/Volume85/Bulletin_vol85_1_2013_Vassiljev_Saarse.pdf

Seems I'm stuck reading articles now..:coffee2:
 

Well, did a "space rock" hit the Pacific Ocean in the "Past"...? Are the "legends" of Atlantis based on the Myths of Mu/Lemuria, in the Pacific...? Possible!
 

Rebel - KGC said:
Well, did a "space rock" hit the Pacific Ocean in the "Past"...? Are the "legends" of Atlantis based on the Myths of Mu/Lemuria, in the Pacific...? Possible!
Click to expand...

I would say that is a certainty, that some 'space rocks' have indeed hit the Pacific Ocean in the past, probably some quite large too.

On the 'myths' of Atlantis, Mu/Lemuria, Kumari Kandam and others, I would propose that most if not all of these sunken lands were likely destroyed in the same event, a catastrophic ending to the last Ice Age, which obliterated nearly all of the civilizations which were beginning to flourish at that time. Now perhaps I am being a bit too fast and loose with that term 'civilizations' for these peoples were only just beginning agriculture, which is viewed as the core of any true civilization, yet herding of livestock was already fairly widespread, and this too is a form of agriculture which provides a year-round food supply and allows for specialization of the work for the people. Also, fishing was certainly a major form of support for people living in that time, as it remains today.

In support of this contention, lets lay out a few items for your consideration:

"As for those genealogies of yours which you just now recounted to us, Solon, they are no better than the tales of children. In the first place you remember a single deluge only, but there were many previous ones; in the next place, you do not know that there formerly dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest race of men which ever lived, and that you and your whole city are descended from a small seed or remnant of them which survived."
Click to expand...
<Plato, 'Timaeus' quoting an Egyptian priest talking to Solon>

Note that this Egyptian priest, informed Solon that there had been MANY previous deluges, or floods, not just the one remembered by the Greeks; compare this to what science says today:

"Biblical-Type Floods Are Real, and They're Absolutely Enormous
Geologists long rejected the notion that cataclysmic flood had ever occurred
—until one of them found proof of a Noah-like catastrophe in the wildly eroded river valleys of Washington State"
Click to expand...
Biblical-Type Floods Are Real, and They're Absolutely Enormous | DiscoverMagazine.com


https://www.livescience.com/31810-big-freeze-flood.html

You mentioned other great floods in the Pleistocene. Where else have multiple megafloods taken place? We had huge floods around many of the big ice sheets, such as the Laurentide, which blanketed much of arctic Canada east of the Rocky Mountains and southward to the Great Lakes. Huge megafloods were associated with its surrounding lakes, particularly Glacial Lake Agassiz, which covered much of central Canada centered around Winnipeg. That released floods both to the south through the Mississippi River system and also under the ice out through the straits that enter Hudson Bay.
There were also massive megafloods in Asia. Some of them were associated with big ice sheets that blocked the rivers that currently flow north from Russia into the Arctic Ocean. Others were associated with mountain areas, such as the Altai Mountains, the Sayan Mountains, and some of the mountains around Lake Baikal. All of these are in southern Siberian Russia, along its borders with Kazakhstan and China and Mongolia. These mountain floods were comparable in magnitude, though perhaps not in volume, to the Missoula floods.
Click to expand...

NOVA - Official Website | Megafloods of the Ice Age

You see there was not just ONE huge ice-dam lake of melted ice water from the gigantic glaciers, there were MANY of them and many huge floods over the centuries, but especially at the end of the last Ice Age these ice dams may well have failed at the same time. Objection has been raised to the single day and night of destruction of Atlantis, versus the forty days and nights of Genesis, yet we do not know if the rains witnessed by Noah were rains world-wide continuously. Note also that the scientists have stated that the giant mega floods resulting from the failures of the ice dams would feel like earthquakes, and would shake the ground.

I would also remind you of the otherwise odd passage from Herodotus, also informed by Egyptian priests, that twice the Sun had changed course in the sky, rising in the opposite of normal, and twice returning to normal, the priest adding that 'no damage was done in Egypt'. This may have been an eyewitness report of the Earth literally tipping over on its axis, to rotate (apparently) the 'wrong' way for a time, then returning to the correct position as the weights balanced out. As to what could cause this, the melting of the huge glaciers that covered huge areas of the globe at the height of the ice age, would certainly be enough weight redistribution to cause the spinning globe to rotate end over end one or more times, and for that matter we do not know for a certainty if it ever returned to the original tilt of the axis.

Please do continue;
Oroblanco

:coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2: :coffee2:
 

Excellent lot of posts guys keep them coming. I was watching this today. For those that have an interest in planet x. Ancient tech. Sumerians and such. Also some references to Atlantis. Goes for an hour. But it has some quite good information and perspectives.

https://youtu.be/UiS-Q0GlN3s

Speaking of space rocks. I do have another doco on the earth. I cant remember the exact figures off hand id have to re watch it. But all around the earth at around the same depth. The exact same white sediment layer can be found. The result of the large asteroid impact that hit south america.
I wonder if there could be some evidence of a cataclysm at around 12-000 years ago in the rocks around the world. Which caused the trigger of the melt to occur.

I was on my way home from work going through some of the recent posts. It got me thinking to the scene in titanic. When the ship starts to take on too much water anf breaks up. Fires break out and such.

Now we know platos description of the destruction of atlantis. Is earthquakes. Fire and then swollowed up by the sea.
Could the fires he describes be from the damage from the sea?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Nice post, Oro. Too bad we don't have the Egyptian priest's source material instead of Plato's third-hand account - which was used to embellish a lesson in moralities. The takeaway is, IMO, that we really don't know many details of the earth's inhabitants or the planet's violent physical past, notwithstanding today's anthropologic and scientific models which tend to change - sometimes radically - with the generations. Greek history doesn't help much with the details either, even though the mythology gives at least some good stories to try to read between the lines and speculate about. Going back further to the Egyptians and Mesopotamians, it gets a little more specific, but still unpalatable to academia as factual. I was wondering, does anyone here have a good working knowledge of the very early documents from the Indo-Aryan period, or the ancient Chinese stories? The Atlantis discussions tend to leave those guys out.
 

Oroblanco said:
I would say that is a certainty, that some 'space rocks' have indeed hit the Pacific Ocean in the past, probably some quite large too.

On the 'myths' of Atlantis, Mu/Lemuria, Kumari Kandam and others, I would propose that most if not all of these sunken lands were likely destroyed in the same event, a catastrophic ending to the last Ice Age, which obliterated nearly all of the civilizations which were beginning to flourish at that time. Now perhaps I am being a bit too fast and loose with that term 'civilizations' for these peoples were only just beginning agriculture, which is viewed as the core of any true civilization, yet herding of livestock was already fairly widespread, and this too is a form of agriculture which provides a year-round food supply and allows for specialization of the work for the people. Also, fishing was certainly a major form of support for people living in that time, as it remains today.
Click to expand...
A little update:
Not sure if this related to your theory above, Oro, but still food for thought:

One interesting note was that the Bahamas had higher increase in water levels then Tahiti, which seems mostly unaffected, possibly suggesting the atlantic was more affected by Meltwater pulse 1B. Of course, this needs more flesh to the bones.
http://environmentportal.in/files/Deglacial meltwater.pdf


More to come.. Finding material on 1B has some challenges.

:coffee2:
 

Last edited:
Rebel - KGC said:
For your "edification", www.crystalinks.com/lemuria.html or just "google" Lemuria/Mu; some ANCIENT India Sacred Books are mentioned... such as Book of Dzyan.
Click to expand...

If that was for me, thanks but no thanks. Give me a paper on geology and I'm a happy camper. I think you guys already seem to have an image on the ancient texts. My idea is simply for us to compare findings, ideas and theories. Mine will be based on what geologic papers I read and your feedback.

Well, until another project occupies my mind.:coffee2:
 

marticus said:
Excellent lot of posts guys keep them coming. I was watching this today. For those that have an interest in planet x. Ancient tech. Sumerians and such. Also some references to Atlantis. Goes for an hour. But it has some quite good information and perspectives.

https://youtu.be/UiS-Q0GlN3s

Speaking of space rocks. I do have another doco on the earth. I cant remember the exact figures off hand id have to re watch it. But all around the earth at around the same depth. The exact same white sediment layer can be found. The result of the large asteroid impact that hit south america.
I wonder if there could be some evidence of a cataclysm at around 12-000 years ago in the rocks around the world. Which caused the trigger of the melt to occur.

I was on my way home from work going through some of the recent posts. It got me thinking to the scene in titanic. When the ship starts to take on too much water anf breaks up. Fires break out and such.

Now we know platos description of the destruction of atlantis. Is earthquakes. Fire and then swollowed up by the sea.
Could the fires he describes be from the damage from the sea?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I suppose there could be another "layer" of a world wide catastrophe, but it's yet to be found.

My personal reasoning on the fire is simply; people began to panic when the flood came. Chaos set a few houses ablaze, which spread until water put it out(?).
Either way, that's one possible take on it. :)
 

SDCFIA wrote:
Nice post, Oro. Too bad we don't have the Egyptian priest's source material instead of Plato's third-hand account - which was used to embellish a lesson in moralities. The takeaway is, IMO, that we really don't know many details of the earth's inhabitants or the planet's violent physical past, notwithstanding today's anthropologic and scientific models which tend to change - sometimes radically - with the generations. Greek history doesn't help much with the details either, even though the mythology gives at least some good stories to try to read between the lines and speculate about. Going back further to the Egyptians and Mesopotamians, it gets a little more specific, but still unpalatable to academia as factual. I was wondering, does anyone here have a good working knowledge of the very early documents from the Indo-Aryan period, or the ancient Chinese stories? The Atlantis discussions tend to leave those guys out.
Click to expand...


Agreed, though we DO have a fragment from a papyrus that does talk of the Egyptian version of the Great Flood:
　
Egypt:
People have become rebellious. Atum said he will destroy all he made and return the earth to the Primordial Water which was its original state. Atum will remain, in the form of a serpent, with Osiris. [Faulkner, plate 30] (Unfortunately the version of the papyrus with the flood story is damaged and unclear. See also Budge, p. ccii.)
Click to expand...


<from Flood Stories from Around the World>

The same page has a number of other versions, of some interest we might look at the ancient Welsh legend, quote

Welsh:
Click to expand...
The lake of Llion burst, flooding all lands. Dwyfan and Dwyfach escaped in a mastless ship with pairs of every sort of living creature. They landed in Prydain (Britain) and repopulated the world. [Gaster, pp. 92-93]
Click to expand...


The 'lake of Llion' burst? Is this a memory of one of the many giant ice-dam lakes, full of melted glacial waters? It certainly suggests such a link in view of the current geology on the Paleolithic meltwater "pulses" (FLOODS)

Also interestingly, check out the Celtic version:
Celtic:
Heaven and Earth were great giants, and Heaven lay upon the Earth so that their children were crowded between them, and the children and their mother were unhappy in the darkness. The boldest of the sons led his brothers in cutting up Heaven into many pieces. From his skull they made the firmament. His spilling blood caused a great flood which killed all humans except a single pair, who were saved in a ship made by a beneficent Titan. The waters settled in hollows to become the oceans. The son who led in the mutilation of Heaven was a Titan and became their king, but the Titans and gods hated each other, and the king titan was driven from his throne by his son, who was born a god. That Titan at last went to the land of the departed. The Titan who built the ship, whom some consider to be the same as the king Titan, went there also. [
Sproul, pp. 172-173]
Click to expand...

Note this version has giants, and war, resulting in a great flood, and of course note the mention of TITANS. Atlas was a Titan, after all. Also I would point out that the waters "settled in hollows" to form the oceans etc, suggesting that the flooding was indeed world-wide, yet not like standing water deeper than Mount Everest, more like raging floods that roared over the surface. This type of flooding would indeed have been terrifically destructive.
Marticus wrote
Now we know platos description of the destruction of atlantis. Is earthquakes. Fire and then swollowed up by the sea.
Could the fires he describes be from the damage from the sea?
Click to expand...


　
Actually Plato does not mention 'fires' only "earthquakes and floods". Fires would be logical, from cooking fires, lamps etc being upset by the violence of the events. But from Plato all we have are the earthquakes and floods, which would be what you would expect from a massive flooding event, probably coupled with a large subsidence of land.


　
Last bit but I found that passage in Herodotus, which may be of some interest:
　
Thus in the period of eleven thousand three hundred and forty years they said that there had arisen no god in human form; nor even before that time or afterwards among the remaining kings who arose in Egypt, did they report that anything of that kind had come to pass. In this time they said that the sun had moved four times from his accustomed place of rising, and where he now sets he had thence twice had his rising, and in the place from whence he now rises he had twice had his setting; [127] and in the meantime nothing in Egypt had been changed from its usual state, neither that which comes from the earth nor that which comes to them from the river nor that which concerns diseases or deaths.
Click to expand...
　
<from The Histories by Herodotus, Book II>

　
A footnote to this is especially important, no. 127
[127] Not on two single occasions, but for two separate periods of time it was stated that the sun had risen in the West and set in the East; i.e. from East to West, then from West to East, then again from East to West, and finally back to East again. This seems to be the meaning attached by Herodotus to something which he was told about astronomical cycles.
Click to expand...

<available online at: Herodotus HISTORY - BOOK 2 (EUTERPE) - 70, emphasis added by me. >

　
More to follow, but on the ice melting thing, it is not a case of just the ice slowly melting, it was being held in massive ice-dammed lakes, far larger than the great lakes. The floods that resulted when these ice dams gave way were literally earth changing. Just a spin through the many flood myths from around the world will point up several that mention lakes that burst causing the 'great flood', or "roaring waters from the mountains" (which would certainly result from ice dam failures) and also consider that a prolonged rain or rains for days or weeks, might well cause ice dams to fail and release the gigantic "meltwater pulses" as the academics like to call it.

　
One last thing but these meltwater pulses probably also triggered earthquakes, and quite possibly also subsidences of land. Even island shelf collapses could result from this kind of event.

　
Please do continue, will post more when I have more time.
:coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2: :coffee2:

 

Sorry for cutting yesterdays post short, got unexpected visitors yesterday!

Due to little luck finding material on Pulse 1B I've studied sedimentary deposits.

My first stop is near the site Tayopa suggested near portugal. Underwater samples.
Wasn't quite helpful for us right now. It shows a "Heinrich" event might have been active during the time.
However, to my knowledge those don't cause tsunamis. I need to read up on that.
http://pages.bangor.ac.uk/~oss40d/download/Baas et al (PPP 1997).pdf


I'm reverting to landbased sediments instead, hoping to have better luck there!
 

Another good post, Oro. IMO, the less we rely solely on Plato's allegories (and no offense intended against him), the more we have to work with re earth's distant past. The business with the sun's behavior obviously indicates nearby celestial chaos wreaking who-knows-what kind of havoc on the planet. It also bolster's the growing acceptance of the Electric Universe model of the physical realms (which, as a corollary of the greater whole, identifies Saturn as the earth's "first sun"), in that postulations regarding consistent but puzzling celestial movements can now be replicated in laboratories. This was never possible using the Gravitational Model.

Speaking of mythologies, your Celtic reference is interesting in that the first part is an unusual match to certain Gnostic creation explanations, such as Hypostasis of the Archons. I suppose if we're ever able to retrieve information far enough back in history, a lot of allegorical mysteries will become clear.
 

Oro - I like this quote from your post: "In this time they said that the sun had moved four times from his accustomed place of rising, and where he now sets he had thence twice had his rising, and in the place from whence he now rises he had twice had his setting"
That is very interesting! Wonder how long the time span was for the W to E, E to W, W to E and then back to normal? Can you imagine what it was like back then? They must have been sacrificing people left and right to try and get the sun back to normal! Ra is not happy! More offerings!!!
 

Eu_citzen said:
Sorry for cutting yesterdays post short, got unexpected visitors yesterday!

Due to little luck finding material on Pulse 1B I've studied sedimentary deposits.

My first stop is near the site Tayopa suggested near portugal. Underwater samples.
Wasn't quite helpful for us right now. It shows a "Heinrich" event might have been active during the time.
However, to my knowledge those don't cause tsunamis. I need to read up on that.
http://pages.bangor.ac.uk/~oss40d/download/Baas et al (PPP 1997).pdf


I'm reverting to landbased sediments instead, hoping to have better luck there!
Click to expand...

Took a lot of searching but I did find a paper:
Juan A. Morales, José M. Gutiérrez Mas, José Borrego and Antonio Rodríguez-Ramírez (2011). Sedimentary Characteristics of the Holocene Tsunamigenic Deposits in the Coastal Systems of the Cadiz Gulf (Spain), The Tsunami Threat - Research and Technology, Nils-Axel Mörner (Ed.), InTech, DOI: 10.5772/14034. Available from: https://www.intechopen.com/books/th...c-deposits-in-the-coastal-systems-of-the-cadi

It speaks of several layers of possible tsunami-related sediments, but suggested these may have been re-worked later on by water, thus making a certain ID difficult. I'm not through the whole paper, but have yet to find any references on dating these sediments.

Geography wise, the study area could very well indicate if Atlantis was an island(s) west of spain, tsunamis might have hit it.
 

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