Archeologists and Detectorist Aren't Always Friends

[wingmaster]

I would have told him the guy over his club doesn't make the rules that I go by so that means nothing to me, I would also tell him if it has so much historical value why hasn't it been excavated already. These people won't do it for free even though it so important to them, they want to get a big grant or something to get paid for it and even then they will have volunteers that do all the digging and hard work. We do it for fun and nobody has to pay us for it, maybe that's why they feel intimitated by us so much. HH

 

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[Plumbata]

Many of the soulless conformist PC types seem to parrot the fallacious Appeals to Authority spouted by the archaeological elite in order to justify their existence, an existence funded largely by grants (mis)appropriated from the same decent folk that they regard with the sort of hostile condescension that distracts everyone from the fact that their current ivory tower is erected upon a foundation of sand. Anthropology used to be a science and fact-based field which strived toward objectivity, but the same relativistic, historical/dialectical materialist intellectual rot that has destroyed much of the social sciences is destroying it as well. Instead of starting with disparate data points and connecting the dots to extrapolate a realistic big picture, more and more now they start with a nonsense prepackaged assumption and through manipulative interpolation delete and shift those puzzle pieces around to match the desired picture. That 50+ year old ketchup bottle or pull-tab is a priceless historical treasure which must be protected on pain of financial ruin or imprisonment. All cultures are equal and gender is an infinite spectrum but the uniquely altruistic, tolerant, inquisitive and inventive Western Civilization is fundamentally evil, ya know.

 

[Jason in Enid]

The biggest problem with archies today is their work is meaningless. The vast majority do nothing to add to historical knowledge, because their predecessors already did that. Today, most of the archeaology is done in places fully covered by written records and full knowledge of what people lived there, where they lived, and how they lived. Modern archie digs are nothing more than curiosity and excuses so that they can publish a paper about something. Paper publishing is the popularity contest of the archies and all they care about is becoming "popular."

 

[boogeyman]

I ran into an Archeologist the other day while out hunting a public park.
We got to talking and I told him I had found some old stuff at an old
public park in another location.Though he was friendly he did tell me that
it was off limits to metal detectors.I told him there was no signs nor markers
saying so.He said the guy over his club made the rule.Now I know history
should be preserved,however I also know that I'm an advocate for Detectorist
rights.By all means if a place has been marked legally by the proper process to
be an actual historic site is one thing,but just to say so,to me,is not enough.
So how would you guys approach this?

"Well sir, the guy over at my metal detecting club made a rule that NO archeologists are to step foot in ANY park. And in case you're wondering, I have my paint brush & trowel in the truck so I guess that makes me official?"

Sorry, not trying to insult you, but I've gotta ask, why in the heck would you say where you're making finds? I'd be saying something like "a park in the middle of nowheres ville. Again, "Dig it up, Put it up, Shut up!"

 

[Normsel]

Grave Robber is a good one

 

[Bodkin]

You're an archeologist? Me too!!! Sorry, can't talk now. Gotta get back to work.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Friends? They hate us for the most part.

Some of they are us . . . Or, some of we are them.

That is, I practice both from a hobbyist standpoint. ;-)

 

[Jason in Enid]

Some of they are us . . . Or, some of we are them.

That is, I practice both from a hobbyist standpoint. ;-)

Do you hate yourself when you go detecting? LOL

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The biggest problem with archies today is their work is meaningless. The vast majority do nothing to add to historical knowledge, because their predecessors already did that. Today, most of the archeaology is done in places fully covered by written records and full knowledge of what people lived there, where they lived, and how they lived. Modern archie digs are nothing more than curiosity and excuses so that they can publish a paper about something. Paper publishing is the popularity contest of the archies and all they care about is becoming "popular."

This is the common mantra cited by us legions of md'rs (and anyone with common sense). HOWEVER: It will fail the test with them (and the government panels they advise that they sit on). Reason ? Because they would point out:

"How do YOU know that the buffalo nickel you just found in the forest (or desert, or beach, or park, or school yard, etc...) *MIGHT* not be the EXACT SPOT that a future archaeologist, 3000 yrs. from now , doesn't choose to dig a study pit at ?? Hence you've robbed future generations of knowing about their past. Tsk tsk.

I know you are writhing on the floor guilt ridden right now. Right Jason ?

 

[sprailroad]

Grave Robber is a good one

You know, I have always wondered about that. Granted, when I have read about various things being discovered in "tombs" etc., I did find it really very interesting, However, when I am criticized or even looked upon as some sort of villain in my metal detecting activities or in my past my bottle digging, I than think, well, isn't the discovery of tombs, and graves with items being removed, nothing more then a "legalized" form of grave robbing by the archeologist, considering that those items placed with their dead, were NOT meant to be disturbed, were NOT meant to be removed and NOT meant to be put on public display? Is the title "archeologist" simply a word or title for "license" to loot?" just as say 007 meant a "license" to kill?" (James Bond thing). Splitting hairs? well........When I'm told that I MUST NOT disturbed ANYTHING 50yrs old or older, that I MUST NOT pick up a arrow head that is out by itself on the surface, when I am told I MUST NOT metal detect, where I might disturb or remove anything that MUST be preserved for "Future" generations, (at least before it's paved over or built upon) and when we are told that we MUST NOT detect, dig holes or remove anything because it belongs to the public and perhaps to the government, well..... I then again think of the "archeologist" and the "grave robbing?". I fully understand about a discovery and excavation of an ancient civilization etc. No problem with that. I do have a problem with them having a problem with me out in the woods somewhere finding a coin or bottle older than I am. Look, I don't know, but here is a message to all the archeologist in general, Listen fella's, when all of you return all of the items that you have "looted" from tombs and graves over many years, (again, items not lost, but items placed there, for eternity?) I will gather up all the coins etc. that I have found over the years, and sprinkle them all over the woods, deserts and parks that I may have found them in, INCLUDING the TONS of trash I've removed, we have a deal? If not, pull up your big boy pants, and go "Excavate" a lost national treasure, and not concern yourselves with the small stuff that detectorist search for, in a manner of which I don't believe any of you would bother with, nor would you want to make the effort. I did not begin this hobby 30yrs. ago WITH this attitude, but kind of gained it from, that's right, YOU fella's. Some of us have tried working with you, but most of you continue to have no intention of working with us. And why would that be exactly?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

You know, I have always wondered about that. Granted, when I have about read various things being discovered in "tombs" etc., I did find it really very interesting, However, when I am criticized or even looked upon as some sort of villain in my metal detecting activities or in my past my bottle digging, I than think, well, isn't the discovery of tombs, and graves with items being removed, nothing more then a "legalized" form of grave robbing by the archeologist,...

I have had this VERY conversation (with the fighting words removed) with a purist archaeologist. Ie.: a civil conversation centering around what I suggested was their starting premise:

"all metal detecting is evil".

To which they said: No. Not all metal detecting is "evil". AS LONG AS YOU DO IT UNDER CERTAIN PROTOCOLS. This purist archie would have no problem with md'rs. AS LONG AS it was done with certain rigors.

Here's where the devil is in the details: The rigor that they speak of, is painstaking boring methods where you dig up each item with tweezers and brushes, and write a 5 page report on each item. And the data is archived for future review in future study by other archies. And the objects preserved for public benefit, rather than a single md'rs selfish profit on ebay, etc....

Thus they would say that they are not "robbing graves", since they do their tomb/grave digs with archaeological rigor. As opposed to the md'r, who ... get a beep, stoops down, digs it & puts it in his apron.

Hence essentially, to please the purist archie, you'd have to BECOME an archie . Before you dare touch an item in the ground.

 

[Jason in Enid]

You know, I have always wondered about that. Granted, when I have about read various things being discovered in "tombs" etc., I did find it really very interesting, However, when I am criticized or even looked upon as some sort of villain in my metal detecting activities or in my past my bottle digging, I than think, well, isn't the discovery of tombs, and graves with items being removed, nothing more then a "legalized" form of grave robbing by the archeologist, considering that those items placed with their dead, were NOT meant to be disturbed, were NOT meant to be removed and NOT meant to be put on public display? Is the title "archeologist" simply a word or title for "license" to loot?" just as say 007 meant a "license" to kill?" (James Bond thing). Splitting hairs? well........When I'm told that I MUST NOT disturbed ANYTHING 50yrs old or older, that I MUST NOT pick up a arrow head that is out by itself on the surface, when I am told I MUST NOT metal detect, where I might disturb or remove anything that MUST be preserved for "Future" generations, (at least before it's paved over or built upon) and when we are told that we MUST NOT detect, dig holes or remove anything because it belongs to the public and perhaps to the government, well..... I then again think of the "archeologist" and the "grave robbing?". I fully understand about a discovery and excavation of an ancient civilization etc. No problem with that. I do have a problem with them having a problem with me out in the woods somewhere finding a coin or bottle older than I am. Look, I don't know, but here is a message to all the archeologist in general, Listen fella's, when all of you return all of the items that you have "looted" from tombs and graves over many years, (again, items not lost, but items placed there, for eternity?) I will gather up all the coins etc. that I have found over the years, and sprinkle them all over the woods, deserts and parks that I may have found them in, INCLUDING the TONS of trash I've removed, we have a deal? If not, pull up your big boy pants, and go "Excavate" a lost national treasure, and not concern yourselves with the small stuff that detectorist search for, in a manner of which I don't believe any of you would bother with, nor would you want to make the effort. I did not begin this hobby 30yrs. ago WITH this attitude, but kind of gained it from, that's right, YOU fella's. Some of us have tried working with you, but most of you continue to have no intention of working with us. And why would that be exactly?

Well said, but I'll you one better. Have you ever watched an archie dig? They bring in shovels, front end loaders and backhoes. They scrape away feet of soil to get "down to the archeaology". All that top stuff is meaningless to them. But when we dare to dug a coin 6 inches down its a crime against history.

 

[Rodbuster209]

We were starting the footings for a pretty big bridge in one of the foothill counties when I noticed an old cellar hole and foundation stones. Deciding we would detect it before work the next morning. About mid morning, that first morning this 1960’s hippie looking guy shows up and starts looking around and telling us that he is the onsite archeologist and we are to report if , while working, we find any cultural objects to report to him immediately, so I asked what if we see someone metal detecting he said Oh! Call him right away so he could have them arrested. Then proceeded to call them scavengers and pot hunters and bead hunters. So we said ok, and he left. So we would detect every other morning before work because he would generally stroll in around 9-10ish. We started at 6-6:15. He ended up getting kicked off the site because he would always end up arguing with the local Indian tribe lady about who had authority over the history and artifacts that showed up occasionally. It was great she threatened to kick his ass one time. Fond memories. Come to find out a couple of local guys had been working it for a couple weeks before we started they said they ok. Good luck!

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Do you hate yourself when you go detecting? LOL

On a positive note: when I argue with myself it keeps the nuisance lookin-peepers off a distance.

 

[pepperj]

A farmer gave me a verbal permission for a cellar hole next door, wasn't her land. I rolled up on on a fellow that I thought might be the land owner later and was informed that he was the owner (son actually) I told him what I did and he instantly had the cat sh** wiped under the noise look. Basically said "I'm an archeologist! I know what you are all about." Well granted I never got the permission and he's now put a large gravel road right on the cellar hole spot. So he really gives a rats backside about saving history.
Public or historical spots that are done by the University are just these closed lipped asses that if it ever rained on a site they'd all drown having their noses stuck up so far. They put fencing up around a sites in the downtown, will never say if they have found anything, so I love to rub it in a little every once in a while about great pieces of historical finds I get off of private property.

There was a dig in the town next door and I chatted with the site diggers, private/public fund raising cause. Private firm, and really nice down to earth, shared history, showed off the finds. I am invited to help detect the site for the next dig. Also one of the members approached me on trying to find a rumoured ditched cannon off a bridge that existed back in the 1812 war.

So I think that there's two sides to these folks, one are a secret society that look down us like vermin, and the other that appreciate our own little way of saving history. Having the mindset of it mine all mine and we'll recover ever last piece of history on earth as the one side believes is just mental. Having the archeologists in England accepting the fact that history is uncovered by many is a better go than try to do it with only a few.

 

[sawmill man]

Was watching the stealth diggers on youtube a while back , they were showing were a local archaeologist had dumped there finds. i would have had that documented and posted in the local paper, a news paper can really make people nervous.

 

[against the wind]

Was watching the stealth diggers on youtube a while back , they were showing were a local archaeologist had dumped there finds. i would have had that documented and posted in the local paper, a news paper can really make people nervous.

Not anymore,, today it is mostly, "Fake News"

 

[sprailroad]

Tom in CA post # 31. You had a "civil conversation" with an "Archeologist" ?......I vote Banner.

 

[namxat]

Tom in CA post # 31. You had a "civil conversation" with an "Archeologist" ?......I vote Banner.

There is hope Tom.

" Then the wolf shall be a guest of the lamb,

and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat;

The calf and the young lion shall browse together,

with a little child to guide them.


The cow and the bear shall graze,

together their young shall lie down;

the lion shall eat hay like the ox.

The baby shall play by the viper’s den,

and the child lay his hand on the adder’s lair."
Isaiah chapter 11

For the more mundane thinking: I vote for budget cutters. It is actually the governement funded crowd that is the bad one.

Greets Namxat

 

[bayhawk2]

"Sorry, not trying to insult you, but I've gotta ask, why in the heck would you say where you're making finds? I'd be saying something like "a park in the middle of nowheres ville. Again, "Dig it up, Put it up, Shut up!"
No Boogyman-I would not have put "What would you guys have done" if I didn't want all sides of the story.Thanks for taking the time to reply.