Archaeology?

[LadyDigger]

Well, we have had two dealings (one indirectly and one directly) with Archeaologist.

One being Dr. Kelso, of the Jamestown Recovery Team (APVA). We have been avid fans of the Jamestown finds and try to get up there when something new is found, but we try to visit atleast twice a year. We even went to the opening of the new museum...I wasn't that impressed with it...it was not what I expected...infact, I was more impressed what they had had in the old building (that is now going through restoration).

My dau found a piece of ming china while we were there in 1995. I have this all on video tape and took photos so we have proof!! ...anyways...I guess I was kinda' disappointed, only for the fact, my dau was 10 yrs old at the time. When she brought me fragments of items she found, just laying on the ground outside the first tent they put up at the time...I told her that she could not keep those items, as we were on federal property and a dig was going on. So, we went inside the tent and spoke with a lady who put us in touch with Dr. Kelso. He confirmed and took us also to the building (that is being restored) and showed us a pic of the same exact design on this piece my dau found. He said it was a piece of Ming China and they were trying to connect the Orient with Jamestown as far as trading. This was what they were looking for.

We took pics and I videoed the whole event...but not once did I hear him say "Thank You" to her for her honesty, and for finding a piece of history or even asking her name and when we went to the museum...nothing at all relating to the MING CHINA piece or anything regarding MING CHINA!!! I even asked why all the pieces were not out and even asked about the piece my dau found. Answer was, "prob not enough room to display"...oh well...

My dau is 22 now...it's really not a big deal to her, but to me it was!!! And I don't regret having my dau turning it over...because to be quite honest...I would have never known it was Ming China and eventually I would have thrown it in the trash thinking it was junk pottery!!! Atleast that piece is where it should be!

Our other dealing has been with Dr. David Phelps...who did several digs on my hubby's property on the Outer Banks. This is where a 400 yr old 10K gold signet ring was found, traced back to an Abraham Kendall. However, Dr. Phelps has since retired and had all these artifacts in HIS POSSESSION...and it was a battle to get these items from him....it's only been about a year, if that long, that the ring and a few other items have been returned to the ECU Archaeology Center, named after Dr. Phelps. And this ring and a few other items are suppose to be on display as I write this at the museum in Raleigh, NC for the John White Painting display. I hope we can find time to get down there to view it all. We have not seen that ring or held it since 1998!!!!!!!!!

Also, we are doing detecting at Pipscio Boy Scout Reservation in Surry County, VA. I have yet to meet the lady in charge of the digs currently going on there and it's William and Mary who are the curators. Have not heard anything yet as to the status of our finds from May 2007...and I will be there again come November 30th for 3 days....detecting more on the other side of the reservation and will be in search of the old foundation of Eramus Carter's home!!! Will I disclose that location if I find it...hmmm? Right now, I can't say for sure...is that wrong of me, based on what I taught my dau back in 1995 or the fight we had to deal with Dr. Phelps? Hmmm...maybe that is why I am relunctent. We do have to turn over all our finds to the Ranger (he's cool as beans in my books!!)

Only time will tell...but I am keeping a journal of the research I have done and a few others on TN have done, with maps and this hunt coming up...I plan to keep a detailed map, as much as possible, of locations of finds!

So, I have mixed feelings of Archaelogist and I am even considering going back to school...just to learn about it....not so much get a degree....but learn about the field.

Good Luck all...and happy hunting, whether you be the archaelogist or the detectorist!!!
Annmarie

 

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[LadyDigger]

Hey, get a degree! Then we can all go with you!!!

B

OMG...that's a great idea!!!!!! Hmmmm....may have to rethink this venture now...To Degree or Not to Degree?

 

[packerbacker]

What Ocean said. Archy thinks everything belongs to them and only "they" should have access to it. If I find an arrowhead, I'm sorry, it's mine. Not Archys nor the Indians......mine! Just as if I found a clad dime....it's mine! MINE I tell you!!!

 

[Lady_Huntress]

haha you guys are great

 

[beavis]

I spoke with a councilman where I live about a civil war entrenchment back in the woods in our town. They keep talking about having artifacts to display for visitors. When I mentioned the idea ( we can MD the site) the air got very heavy. MD'ing is a dirty term. When I brought up the idea of my archy friend and I doing an organized archaeological dig, that also was out of the question. Guess we'll have to take visitors there, point to the ground, and say all you can do is imagine what might be down there. Interesting huh? I'm going to have a conference with the Mayor but doubt it will go anywhere. So much for history.

 

[Old Dog]

My last encounter with an Archie left such a bad taste in my mouth that we have reached a conclusion here.
Go in and get what you are after...
Then turn the site over to them

Keep your mouth shut about what you did or didn't find and let it go at that.
Be advised though. if turned over to an archie it will never be available to an MD again .

not ever

OD

 

[SgtSki in MI]

I'll Never Learn

I saw this topic in here and told myself, "Don't open it, Tom.....don't click on it.....don't do it!" But lo and behold, there I went and clicked on it so now I'm good and ticked off!!!

Caver's trying to bridge the troubled waters and I applaud his efforts But the fact of the matter is that Archies are to metal detecting as the Brady/Kennedy/Pelosi/Schumer/Lautenberg Cabal is to private ownership and use of firearms (But that's another road I best not go down either!) These people (except for very tiny few like caver) are the arch enemies of our hobby!!! Granted, some of their attitude is justified due to the exploits of Criminals who use metal detectors while breaking the law, but for the most part they are a bunch of elitist posterior orifices who try to villify detectorists as vandals to the public because we ply our hobby in what they regard as their private cookie jar. They define their "cookie jar" as ALL land, public AND private and every single thing that is under its surface. They'd rather that an object deteriorate into a soil discoloration rather than have anybody except them discover it. They consider an old farmstead, or fairgrounds, or encampment site that is now buried under a strip mall or shopping plaza as being "nicely encapsulated".
They're not just referring to bona-fide objects such as the artifacts at a Pre-Columbian burial site or at a Colonial Site such as Jamestown, they want our hides for pulling so much as a Wheatie out of a public park. We need to somehow delineate and better define what IS an archaeologically significant artifact and what ISN'T. The only problem with that is that ALL of it's significant to them, and unfortunately they are the ones who have the ear of our State and Federal lawmakers. We detectorists are most definitely playing against a stacked deck, and there is no group out there which advocates our hobby who has anything NEAR the horsepower to effectively counter any of this intellectual onslaught against us, but they ARE trying. We need to somehow form an extremely powerful lobby funded by several sources, mainly the manufacturers of metal detectors and other TH'ing equipment, and by forming more clubs with extremely well-managed treasuries that can add to the fight.

I'd like to see a better relationship between detectorists and Archaeologists but it'll never happen. Archies (for the most part and with my humblest apologies to Caver) will never accept any olive branch extended to them from the metal detecting community. They will never extend one our way either. Why should they do that when they are winning this war? So since they don't want to make nice and play well together with us, I have no choice but to continue to say every snotty thing I possibly can about them.... it's the only weapon I have. And make no mistake, here in the US and elsewhere we are AT WAR with these people, whether one chooses to acknowledge this or not.
In the meantime, I'd caution dectorists to maintain a very high awareness of OPSEC (Operational Security) when discussing finds, and more importantly, locations with ANYONE who you don't know very well.

I need a drink.

 

[LadyDigger]

SgtSki....I couldn't agree with you more....and that is just based on my own experiences and/or observations with "Archies".

As with the case of Dr. Phelps...once my hubby was contacted about a dig being done on his property and even though there was a contract signed by all parties stating "all finds were the property of my hubby", he can by no means collect and store all those finds in our home! If they are his, why not? Last time the ring was viewed or held by us, was 1998!!! When we went to the ECU lab to look at ALL the finds....all that were in boxes were animal bones, sea shells, broken pottery and a few other odd items, but nothing regarding the coins, the ring, the gun lock(s), bullets, bird bone bracelet(s), beads...none of that stuff was in any of the boxes they were noted on paper to be in!!! That was when the fight, if it should be called that, began!!!

Dr. Phelps also, to this day, has not finished the paperwork (can't remember what the report is called) of all the work that was done on his property. Dr. Phelps is well in his 80's (late 70's maybe)....I doubt that paperwork will ever be seen by ECU and Dr. Ewen (who took over the lab when Dr. Phelps retired). It was just a battle enough to get the artifacts back to ECU!!! There were several newspaper articles written by Catherine Kozak of the Va Pilot Newspaper regarding the dig and return of the finds. However, it's been about a year since the ring and several artifacts have been returned. Some items are still in preservation (so we are told!).

I really want to learn about this field and so far, the closet place for me to get some courses on this subject would be ECU, which is about 4 hours from me and at 51, living in a dorm just don't cut it for me!!!!

I agree also...that there should be some form of organization where metal detectorist can lobby against the "RULES AND REGS" and "CAN's and CAN NOT's"....

Just as there are bad "Archies", there are bad "Detectorists" too...I just hope in my lifetime I will see both working well together, side by side.....

HH ya'll,
Annmarie

PS: oh, I stand corrected....I forgot about William and Mary College in Wiliamsburg...about 30 mins from me....the following is what I would like to learn about:

Summer Field Schools in Archaeology

The Department of Anthropology in conjunction with the Department of Archaeological Research at Colonial Williamsburg, will offer two six-week summer field schools in the Williamsburg area.

Anthropology 225: Archaeological Field Methods. No prerequisites. 6 credits.

An introduction to archaeological field and laboratory methods through participation in a field archaeological project. Archaeological survey and mapping, excavation techniques, data collection and recording, artifact processing and analysis, and related topics.

Anthropology 425: Advanced Archaeological Field Methods. Prerequisites: Methods of Archaeology course or equivalent and field experience, or by permission of the instructor. 6 credits.

The application of archaeological methods to an individual field project. The course will allow advanced students to work on an individual project within the framework of a supervised archaeological field program.

http://www.wm.edu/catalog/2001-02/anthropology.htm

 

[Old Dog]

To all,

My first a encounter with the State archie was a bit on the rough side,

My partner and I brought the helmet from a suit of armor we found in a small cave to his office.
This is the first time I had ever encountered a reaction to something like this. I think Glen (my partner) was trying to show me something.
The man went totally Ballistic! I have never in my life seen such a display of childish immaturity. he railed on us for almost 10 minutes before he slowed for a response.
My response at the time remains the same as I stated that day in 1980.

If you want the rest of this suit of armor it will cost you or the State a cool 10 grand.
anything less ... forget it.

The rest lies where we found it today. In a small cave in the Black Canyon of the Gunison. Now a National Park, as much off limits to the stater as is is to us.

No sweat off my nose, LOL
a real learning experience to me though.
Find what you find. Keep your mouth shut.!

OD