Archaeology vs Metal Detecting

Drache, itmaiden didn't mean anything personal, though I understand (of course) where you come from.

itmaiden, you sound like a treasure hunter. There's nothing wrong with that or why else would we all be here? All I would like to say, is that sometimes the treasure lies in the preservation of an historically important, and more often, a locally important object. Provenance is everything. When that thing leaves the local community, it's usually gone forever.

If a truly important artifact or document rotted on your dresser or bureau only to serve as some testament to your own personal collection, with no one else to see or appreciate it, we're all the less for it.

Finders keepers? It's harsh to say, but that only seemed fair in grade school.
 

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Drache, Likely guy,

I feel I need to clarify somewhat, mine and other treasure hunters position. We are not claim jumpers! There are ethics to treasure hunting. Once it is known that a community wants to preserve their history and heritage through their artifacts. We will either help the community with their efforts, or go somewhere else that has not only been abandoned but also forgotten and cared less about.

We are not out to steal anyone's heritage. We are seekers of lost treasure that's all. Once we know a claim has been staked that's it we move on, end of story.

As I have said, we are not a bunch of heartless pirates, most will help any way they can to preserve our history. however, if it's in the ground and no one knows or even cares about it, then we claim it for ourselves because we found it.Although here in the US we do have the antiquities act to guide us as to what treasure is legal to claim for ourselves or not.

Are all treasure hunters ethical?......are all people?....the answer is no. But that's life and that's what we have to deal with.
 

this would be a humorous thread...if i didn't know you people were out there, pilliaging...then complaining...it is all the Archie's fault...
rather like the economy, it is all the liberals fault...

i begin to see a pattern to some peoples behaviors.

lol, half the time you can't even identify the object you found...so you post it in "whats it?".

this thread certianly shows how uninformed you people are about what anthropology is all about.

but wait...i forgot...you people are better than everyone else...so you are allowed rob the buttons and belt plates from some forgotten heros grave...and insult anyone who dosesn't approve.
 

I do want to point out that just about every time a major Archie dies they tend to find he/she has amassed a very large expensive private collection of said artifacts themselves. :tard:
 

Well, I can't let this thread pass by....

My hubby and I love metal detecting. I am also into genealogy....I live, breathe, sleep, you name it..everything I do relates to genealogy! It's hard not to stop at a cemetery and not record it for future generations and for those looking for their ancestors....however....

I have always had an interest in Archaeology. I find it fascinating! I love watching Dr. Hawes (spelling not sure)...the guy from Eygpt. And Ron and I have had our experiences with "archies" here at home.

My hubby had a dig done on his property back in '98. A long story short, my hubby was called after some things were found uncovered by a recent storm (then) and Dr. David Phelps (who recently passed away '09), was the "archie" who conducted the digs on my hubby's property. We met with him several times, got pics with him and the artifacts found, one being a 10K gold signet ring (which Dr. Phelps had traced to an Abraham Kendall, which this ring pre-dates the LOST COLONY!) CORRECTION: Dr. Phelps did NOT trace the lineage...he sent a photo and a cast of the ring to England....the folks there traced it.

These artifacts belong to my husband, not Dr. Phelps. They are curated at Eastern Carolina Univ (ECU). The Arch lab was named after Dr. Phelps, which upon his retiring, is now run by Dr. Ewens. (Think I got his spelling correct)...anyways....

Hubby and I decided to take a drive a couple years back to ECU after contacting Dr. Ewens if he would be available so we could see ALL the artifacts found. We arrive, talk a bit...he shows us around the lab and the latest projects going on...I was having the time of my life!!! :)

Well, Fred Willard, who initially contacted my hubby about doing a dig and now runs the LOST COLONY something or other on the Outer Banks....anyways...he helps us locate the artifacts and we start opening boxes...NOTHING...I mean NOTHING....some shells, bones, etc...pieces of some pottery..but the main items (i.e., gun flint, ring, bird bone necklace, coins, etc)...nothing was there.

Nor had Dr. Phelps turned in his report about the digs.....there was a list of the items found...hubby has a copy of that and that list named EVERYTHING!!! Whew...

Anyways, we found out that Dr. Phelps had these artifacts....the gun flint is at some Army base being cleaned (since '98)...I think it's clean by now! Some of the other items are in various places as well. The Ring was in Dr. Phelps home in FLORIDA, where he retired to.

Well, several calls, several emails and to no avail, no ring or other items returned. Finally, a meeting was put together at ECU with the Dean, the Arch Lab Director (Dr. Ewens), Fred Willard (who was a participant at the digs), a few other folks and Dr. Phelps showed up. Promise was made to return the ring and other artifacts back to ECU. Well, it still took a couple more years, a couple of newspaper articles and some 'threat' of a lawsuit, but finally, the ring and a few other items are NOW back at ECU.

We plan to make a trip down soon to check the 'boxes' again to make sure they are there and we are still trying to locate where the gun flint was sent to and other items.

Hubby wants these in a museum, perferrably on the Outer Banks, where they were found. Of course, on loan, they will remain in the family and passed down to the care of our son's. However, he does not want them sitting in a box.

This property hubby owns, they believe was the center of the Croatan Indians and has been in my hubby's family about 150 or so years....it's only a small portion of what his 6th gr grandfather once owned, who also owned land on NC Hwy 12 (the old Salvo campground, which they will NOT let us detect :( )...his 6th gr grandparents are buried there on the Sound Side.....even though now, his 6th gr grandmothers headstone is now broken and the piece is no where to be found. Thank goodness I have it on video from '95...cause in 2004, it was gone! This is one reason I like recording cemeteries!

So, even though we liked Dr. Phelps, it was more of selfiness on his part with the artifacts. Story has it, he was having a mold made of the ring and was going to sell them, ... and when hubby found out....oh boy....I can't put on here what he said!!! Dr. Phelps needed hubby's permission.....which he didn't and because of the what he was trying to do, hubby said NO!!!

And now, we are members of Boy Scouts of America (hubby an Asst Scoutmaster and I'm a Comm Member, former Webelo Den Leader) and we have permission to detect our councils camp. They too, have an "archie" who had been conducting digs on the newest part of the camp, which is over 900 acres of land. The asst to the "archie", he and I had words when he tried to stop us from detecting. He said they had ALL RIGHTS to the land. I said, "All 900 plus acres?" and he said yes...well, that and other things he said did not settle with me and I went right to the council. They did NOT have ALL RIGHTS to this land, only to the area they are doing the dig on!!! The Council owns the land and it's their decision.

We cannot keep what we find and the Ranger has all of the artifacs (including trash, well, from the first hunt anyways!) in the BSA Museum at the camp. They have been sitting there since the first hunt in '07. ... but as long as BSA allows us and we continue to obey and follow the Rules and Regs of BSA Council, we will continue to research, find, retrieve and turn in the finds. I document everything, take photos of everything (even the trash) and we, our group, are writing a book. It may take several years...as there is so much to research and find! We have maintained a good reputation and will continue to do so!

I wrap each item in tissue and place them in plastic containers, tape it up and turn over to the Ranger....

I personnally do not care if I can keep anything....however, I love the thrill of finding history and researching it....

We even offered to metal detect the dig area...NOT DIG....detect and we would place flags on possible areas on the dig area they may want to concentrate on...and NO...they don't want any part of us over there!!!

At the camps recent 50th anniversary, since the Council purchased the land, the dig area was one place we were allowed to go in and look at. I was really surprised to see what I did....that area has NOT been dug in several years. Something about, they can only do it for so long, then they have to wait a certain period to go back in....???? Can anyone explain that to me? If you are doing a dig...you continue doing it.... I was told it was some law. But what the area is, is the foundation of the basement of a home, they believe built in the 1600's (or was it 1700's?)...no, 1600's....anyways, this area was found by accident when they were clearing trees after Isabel and someone fell in the hole. (no, they were not hurt).

But to think...the hands this land has been through over the years and no one ever noticed it before!!! This camp was bought in the late 50's....

So, I think it would be great to have metal detectorists help and assist in digs....if anything, we pinpoint a location and they can dig....but I also expect to see that detectorist to receive credit as well and it not fall onto the "archie"!

We will continue (or I will) continue to ask to detect and place flags on areas of interest in the dig area...I may go to Council for this one....the assist to the 'archie' was not in favor of it! Like we are going to damage something...geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

My dau also found a piece of Ming China at Jamestown. She wanted to know if she could keep it and I told her we were at a dig area and it may be important, and that keeping it was wrong. So, we went into the tent area (this was in '95)..and showed this lady what my dau found and she called over Dr. Kelso. He took us to this little building where they stored all the artifacts (that building is now being restored since the new museum was built). He showed us a picture of a Ming China tea set and it had the same design on it as the one my dau found!!! He was so excited, as he said they were trying to find a connection to the Orient. Well, we went to the museum opening and nothing about Ming China (or the piece she found) was there! She was 10 at the time and I feel she should have been given some credit. As an adult, yeah, it would bug me...but I would get over it...but for a child..that is a big deal...but we have pics and video of it...so atleast we know my dau found a link between Jamestown and the Orient!!! :):):)

I said my peace...I think it's great that detectorist work with 'archies'....not all 'archies' are bad guys...not even Dr. Phelps!!!
Happy Hunting,
Annmarie
 

AnnMarie, thanx for your post. Really "puts a face" on an issue, so to speak.

Pippinwhitepaws, you say:

"this would be a humorous thread...if i didn't know you people were out there, pilliaging...then complaining...it is all the Archie's fault...
rather like the economy, it is all the liberals fault... "

I'm trying to understand what you mean by that. For starters, who said we md'rs "pillage"? What's that? Words to instigate a debate and fight? Since when is digging coins on the beach, or a barber dime from an old park "pillaging"? Yes, there are some things that are "archie's fault" (at least, the purist archies anyhow): the impression they want to leave on the rest of society that *only they* can dig, only they can collect, etc... And never mind that even in 10 million years, would they ever even BEGIN to scratch the surface of even a single state's federal or state parks, d/t the fact that they only progress one 5 x 5 pit at a time, taking them an entire summer to do just a few of these 5 x 5 pits. Even the most well-funded aggressive university archaeological departments will scarcely get to a few pits each year. So why should they care if someone detects elsewhere, as long as they're not in off-limits zones (the obvious historical monuments, etc...)? Surely you can acknowledge that this purists elitist mentality exists among some archies. So, no, it's not humorous.

Next you say:

" i begin to see a pattern to some peoples behaviors. lol, half the time you can't even identify the object you found...so you post it in "whats it?". this thread certianly shows how uninformed you people are about what anthropology is all about. "

Quite to the contrary: this information (identification of objects) goes both ways all the time. Archies end up relying on the private collector/digger's reservoir of knowledge all the time. Who do you think assembles the button and relic guide books? A lot of them were compiled by relic collectors, who are experts on dug items. I myself have found myself correcting archie's (in a friendly way) as I am involved in several museums and historical societies, attend lectures, etc...). I'm not knocking them for having to contact the "dark side" for some of their identifying of items, but DON'T think that it's only us that dig an item, and consult archaeologists for ID's. The exchange DOES go both ways. I can give you multiple more examples if you like.

Lastly you say:

" but wait...i forgot...you people are better than everyone else...so you are allowed rob the buttons and belt plates from some forgotten heros grave...and insult anyone who dosesn't approve. "

Where do you come up with this? What md'r said he was better than everyone else? Who said md'rs "rob buttons and belt plates from ..... graves"? MD'rs are quite adament that it not cool at all to detect graveyards. Almost fanatical for that matter! Go back in the archives of any md'ing forum, and click on the topic of detecting graveyards. You will see that anyone who goes to graveyards (even ones he discerns are coming from un-marked burials) is TARRED and FEATHERED by the md'ing community. It is highly frowned on. Anyone on those threads who suggests it's a way to add to his button and buckle collection, gets shouted down in a heart-beat. They become the longest nastiest threads, (sometimes even getting deleted because they get so heated), and the over-whelming majority will tromp on anyone who even suggests it.

So once again, you have some sort of mental image of md'rs, that just isn't rooted in reality.
 

You are most welcomed Tom in CA.

And as for the person who thinks we pillage..... just erks me to no end when folks STEROTYPE!!!

I DO care what other metal detectors do, when it comes to disrespect to ones property, going on forbidden land (i.e., battlefields, private land, etc)....not covering their holes, digging up trash and the reburying or throwing it off in the distance...things like that erk me to no end.

And the reason I care, because, it only takes ONE CHERRY PIT to SPOIL THE BOWL OF CHERRIES....

And that works both ways....you have good 'archies' and you have not so good 'archies'....the same goes for detectorists. That is in any line of work or hobby...you always get the bad with the good.

Dr. Phelps was a great Archie, very knowledgable, many years in the field and highly respected....however, he had his faults!!! And unfortunate for him...he did a dig on my hubby's property and hubby does NOT care for folks that are dishonest, which in this case, Dr. Phelps was. That dig he did was one of the highlights of his career....I have saved every newspaper article! Dr. Phelps had sent us many photos of the artifacts cleaned and identified for our records. We may not always have seen eye-to-eye...but we shared the same love...PERSERVING HISTORY!!!! It really sadden us when we found out he passed away, less than a month ago. A very knowledgable man is forever gone.

I will NOT be like those who discredit this fine hobby....my parents, actually, my father taught me better than that!!! Just things he taught me about life and respect.

So, yeah, I have a sour note about 'archies', but of the ones I have made friends with and the ones I care NOT to make friends with....well, I have had my share of variety when it comes to 'archies'...but that also holds true with 'detectorists'....

Anyways....ya'll have a great day....we have our 4 day hunt coming up in a couple of weeks......WHOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Annmarie
 

I generally don't get in on these controversial topics, especially the ones that are in line with my hobbies, and I said hobby. I do not metal detect for a living. If I did I would probably have a very different outlook at the way things are. I know that professional treasure hunters such as Mel Fisher have done as much for the presevation of Spainish artifacts as any or all of the archies combined. He has a n extensive museum where you can see the actual finds from their excavations in person. He is not alone in this endeavor however. But as a hobbyist I feel that what I find is mine. I do the research, I travel to the spot, I get permission, i dig whatever is there. I am out of a lot of time and perhaps, even money to get the chance to find treasure. And I don't always find treasure, either. I have no financing to help me with my hobby, so whatever I find has to compensate me for my time and gas, otherwise I would just take up another hobby altogether. Its the prospect of finding something rare or interesting as part of our past that keeps us interested,otherwise we would all quit. About 80% of all people who buy metal detectors, either put them in a closet after a few times of digging up pulltabs, which I myself would donate to all archies who want to study the history of them. Or they sell their detectors to recoup their money and decide that its a waste of time after digging hundreds of pulltabs. This is where most of the holes you see in parks are from. I fill in all holes I come upon to help prevent our hobby from getting a bad name. I am not against archies, just the part where coins,jewelry and relics are concerned on privatr land or in parks, schools, and beaches are concerned at less than a foot deep.
 

I have two observations to make to this thread.

1. Anyone care to guess how archaeology got its start? If you trace it back to its origins, which does not go back very far (100 to 150 years at best), you will find that they were all collectors. Gathering items for their personal collections. Many of the big collections that are in universities are from those very collectors. And in many cases the money that started the "archaeology" departments and funded the digs was donated by those same collectors. So by the archaeologists own definitions there benefactors and founders of their profession are looters.

2. My reply to any archaeologist that accuses me of grave robbing is simple. I have never dug, nor do I know anyone, or have ever heard of any detectorists digging a grave. Metal detectorists do not dig up and thereby desecrate graves. ARCHAEOLOGISTS DO!


Mark S.
 

Mark S. said:
I have two observations to make to this thread.

1. Anyone care to guess how archaeology got its start? If you trace it back to its origins, which does not go back very far (100 to 150 years at best), you will find that they were all collectors. Gathering items for their personal collections. Many of the big collections that are in universities are from those very collectors. And in many cases the money that started the "archaeology" departments and funded the digs was donated by those same collectors. So by the archaeologists own definitions there benefactors and founders of their profession are looters.

2. My reply to any archaeologist that accuses me of grave robbing is simple. I have never dug, nor do I know anyone, or have ever heard of any detectorists digging a grave. Metal detectorists do not dig up and thereby desecrate graves. ARCHAEOLOGISTS DO!


Mark S.
Click to expand...

First off I have never nor has anyone I know ever dug up a grave. But you call all archies looters... and you are saying that MD'ers aren't then? Which are the ones that dig things up only to keep for themselves or to make money off of and which are the ones that dig to try and tell history?

See, I can't put all MD'ers into the same boat because some have a really good etiquette and care just as much about preserving and telling history just as any archie.

Some archies dig only for themselves (which I wouldn't call archies but looters) and some MD'ers help try to preserve history. There is no clear line like some people try to make.

I don't care about MD'ers finding coins and artifacts in parks and areas where there probably won't be any excavations. But the MD'ers that go into ghost towns that have active restoration and excavations and start digging up things and keeping them is looting to the lowest form and I'm sorry if my view strikes a low blow to anyone. I guess I just have a problem that people only see history as a way to make a quick buck or hide it from the world. I know not all MD'ers are like this but it just strikes a chord inside of me....

And just to you know, archeology as a "group" might only be a couple hundred years old but there have been archeologists for centuries, try looking up Flavio Biondo (born in 1392) and recognized as one of the world's first archeologists.
 

well, having been run out of an anthropology department for refering to archaeologists as graverobbers...had a 4.0 till that semester...oh well...i have the classes...and have taken archaeologists on field trips to desert ruins...

when someone here posts 4 or 5 buttons, a pocket knife, belt plate, breast plate, pocket spill change, heel plates and a pile of unfired minnie's...all found within feet of each other...

that is a grave.

i know this is unpopular view of the world... :-X
 

pippinwhitepaws said:
well, having been run out of an anthropology department for refering to archaeologists as graverobbers...had a 4.0 till that semester...oh well...i have the classes...and have taken archaeologists on field trips to desert ruins...

when someone here posts 4 or 5 buttons, a pocket knife, belt plate, breast plate, pocket spill change, heel plates and a pile of unfired minnie's...all found within feet of each other...

that is a grave.

i know this is unpopular view of the world... :-X
Click to expand...

I believe it would not be considered a grave unless human remains were discovered.
At least that is the way it has been on all the digs I have been involved with, in the real world.
 

Mark S. said:
I have two observations to make to this thread.

1.      Anyone care to guess how archaeology got its start? If you trace it back to its origins, which does not go back very far (100 to 150 years at best),  you will find that they were all collectors. Gathering items for their personal collections. Many of the big collections that are in universities are from those very collectors. And in many cases the money that started the "archaeology" departments and funded the digs was donated by those same collectors. So by the archaeologists own definitions there benefactors and founders of their profession are looters.   

2.   My reply to any archaeologist that accuses me of grave robbing is simple. I have never dug, nor do I know anyone, or have ever heard of any detectorists digging a grave. Metal detectorists do not dig up and thereby desecrate graves. ARCHAEOLOGISTS DO!


Mark S.
Click to expand...

In regards to your first point, everything has to start from somewhere.  Archaeology has been a developing field from collector/historian to the scientific practices it now has.  The past 50 years in archaeology have provided a wealth of progress in regards to carbon dating, blood residue analysis, etc.  It is no different than medical practices 200 years ago that we now consider archaic.  You cannot badmouth a doctor because 200 years ago they bled you if you had certain ailments.  I do not really believe you can classify the field of archaeology as looting.  There is a standard scientific method used in excavations, burials, etc.

In regards to grave robbing.  I am sorry, but treasure hunters/metal detectorists did get a bad name in the 60's and 70's for digging up any and everything.  I strongly believe that is where the first struggle between archaeologists and metal detectorists began.  It doesn't mean that the majority of detectorists did this by any means. It just means enough incidents happened to make it noteworthy and people's ideas of ethical digging was changing. For instance, take a look at the Robert Marx book, Buried Treasure of the United States. In one of the pictures a ceramic pot is proudly displayed and it says "Pottery found in an Indian Burial" (not the exact words as I don't have the book handy). Back then, it was acceptable to do that.

Over the past two decades the metal detecting hobby has exploded and along with that came the code of ethics, standards, etc. that this hobby is now proud of.  There are always bad apples...in archaeology and metal detecting.  You cannot classify all archaeologists or even a majority bad/misguided/looters, etc. because of one instance, nor can you do the same with metal detectorists.  I personally have conducted and supervised numerous excavations on Native American burials when I was an archaeologist.  We followed all state/federal laws and respected the burial.  From our excavations, we helped to determine religious aspects of the deceased by their grave goods, trade patterns from items enclosed in the burials, size of the individuals, even diet by examining their teeth and bones.  I no way do I consider that desecrating the burial.  Invaluable data was obtained that we would not have gotten otherwise.  Had we never excavated the graves, the odds of it surviving intact were low as the areas were notorious for pot hunters who would go out at dark and just dig away, blasting through burials without regard.  Being able to document the burials is something I always am proud about. 

As an FYI, excavation reports are filed at your state's department of historic resources.  At any time you can go in and look at them, make copies, etc.  They are not locked away from the public.  Artifacts obviously are a different story.  They are typically stored away.
 

Philvis said:
In regards to your first point, everything has to start from somewhere. Archaeology has been a developing field from collector/historian to the scientific practices it now has. The past 50 years in archaeology have provided a wealth of progress in regards to carbon dating, blood residue analysis, etc. It is no different than medical practices 200 years ago that we now consider archaic. You cannot badmouth a doctor because 200 years ago they bled you if you had certain ailments. I do not really believe you can classify the field of archaeology as looting. There is a standard scientific method used in excavations, burials, etc.

In regards to grave robbing. I am sorry, but treasure hunters/metal detectorists did get a bad name in the 60's and 70's for digging up any and everything. I strongly believe that is where the first struggle between archaeologists and metal detectorists began. It doesn't mean that the majority of detectorists did this by any means. It just means enough incidents happened to make it noteworthy and people's ideas of ethical digging was changing. For instance, take a look at the Robert Marx book, Buried Treasure of the United States. In one of the pictures a ceramic pot is proudly displayed and it says "Pottery found in an Indian Burial" (not the exact words as I don't have the book handy). Back then, it was acceptable to do that.

Over the past two decades the metal detecting hobby has exploded and along with that came the code of ethics, standards, etc. that this hobby is now proud of. There are always bad apples...in archaeology and metal detecting. You cannot classify all archaeologists or even a majority bad/misguided/looters, etc. because of one instance, nor can you do the same with metal detectorists. I personally have conducted and supervised numerous excavations on Native American burials when I was an archaeologist. We followed all state/federal laws and respected the burial. From our excavations, we helped to determine religious aspects of the deceased by their grave goods, trade patterns from items enclosed in the burials, size of the individuals, even diet by examining their teeth and bones. I no way do I consider that desecrating the burial. Invaluable data was obtained that we would not have gotten otherwise. Had we never excavated the graves, the odds of it surviving intact were low as the areas were notorious for pot hunters who would go out at dark and just dig away, blasting through burials without regard. Being able to document the burials is something I always am proud about.

As an FYI, excavation reports are filed at your state's department of historic resources. At any time you can go in and look at them, make copies, etc. They are not locked away from the public. Artifacts obviously are a different story. They are typically stored away.
Click to expand...

Philvis...would you be so kind as to educate me on what we were told at our Boy Scout Camp where digs have/had been going on. Last Oct, the Scouts were authorized to go into the dig area where young adults who are studying Archeaology and / or helped with this previous dig. When I saw it...it was over grown and you can tell it has NOT been excuvated in a very long time. One of the young adults told me, infront of all that were there, that digs are only allowed to go on for a period of time, then they have to stop for a period of time (I believe she said it had been 2-3 years since they worked on it) before they can apply again to start the digs again.

We love going to Jamestown where Dr. Kelso and his team have been doing the digs there, have been since '95. Many of the areas they did dig up, are now covered again, grass growing and you can not tell they even dug there. Very professionally done! Anyways, they have been digging at Jamestown, think they started about '94, atleast this team anyways. I know that one of the reasons they reburied everything, is due to the elements, it would destroy the remaining buildings, etc...if left exposed. They have made recreations and they are what are displayed for the public...as many of the old buildings at Jamestown are...and I've been going to Jamestown since '78. Where most of the public go to where they have the homes at (row houses and such)...those are also recreations of what is buried beneath.

They keep going and going, finding artifacts and human remains, rebury them, clean up the area and replant, place the recreation is any is required for that particular spot. However, I just don't know what this young adult was saying?

I know Dr. Phelps, who did the digs on my hubby's property, his main objective was getting money (funding) for the digs he was doing on the Outer Banks. They were trying to find information about the Croatan Indians and as folks in the past, trying to solve the Lost Colony.

Was she trying to tell me, it was funding that prevented them from continuing or are there actual laws in the Archeaology field where you can dig for so long, stop for a period of time and then continue at a later date? I'm just curious.

Been thinking of taking courses in Archeaology, but I would like to do them at ECU...but it's about a 4 hour drive for me!

The ones doing the digs at our camp are with William and Mary.

Thank you for any insight you may be able to provide.
Annmarie
 

Philvis said:
I do not really believe you can classify the field of archaeology as looting. There is a standard scientific method used in excavations, burials, etc.

I personally have conducted and supervised numerous excavations on Native American burials when I was an archaeologist. We followed all state/federal laws and respected the burial. From our excavations, we helped to determine religious aspects of the deceased by their grave goods, trade patterns from items enclosed in the burials, size of the individuals, even diet by examining their teeth and bones. I no way do I consider that desecrating the burial. Invaluable data was obtained that we would not have gotten otherwise. Had we never excavated the graves, the odds of it surviving intact were low as the areas were notorious for pot hunters who would go out at dark and just dig away, blasting through burials without regard. Being able to document the burials is something I always am proud about.
Click to expand...

These are the statements that I have a problem with. Who gets to set those standards that you follow as an Archeologist ? Since it obviously isn't the Native American Population who are on a new path to stop all archeological digs of their Native ancestors graves. Just because a bunch of academics don't see this as looting or desecration of the grave doesn't mean everyone else doesn't either. I would tear up the person I found digging into any of my ancestors graves no matter what their feeble reasons. And don't hand me the line that it was for the betterment of mankind because of the value of what is learned. Learning should always take a backseat to peoples personal religious beliefs. It just steams me to think there's a bunch of academics looking down their noses at us Treasure Hunters when they are the ones tearing open graves, and then saying what they do doesn't count because they say so. >:(
 

MD Dog,

Science for the most part only sees religion as an aside to human evolution, something to be studied academically as a curiosity. Therefore it is hard for a scientist to realize what an impact their "study of burials" has on the spiritual feelings of a culture.

As far as the grave (tomb) robbing goes I believe that is exactly what any ancient Pharoah would have called the taking of mummys and the carting off of their possessions meant for their afterlife, to be displayed in museums and private collections all over the world. The fact that it was done in the name of science would not have made it any less of an outrage to them.

Goodyguy~
 

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