Archaeologists Say Artifact Looting A Problem In Wyoming

[Cannonman17]

I'm not talking about the laws, I'm talking about what's right and wrong... you can keep talking law this and law that, I don't care- you can insult me all day long and you're still not hearing my point. I don't believe you have the right to go anywhere you want and dig... on private land YES, and if that's what all this is about then were arguing nothing. If anybody could go anywhere they want and dig anything they wanted to (and the feds did nothing to protect any or excavate any) then we would have a nation full of nice collections of artifacts and know nothing about the people who made them, when they were made, etc. Why can't you just admit that I'm right in the respect that some places just need to be saved/protected for the sake of all of us, our history, our children, and for the future.

 

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[ericwt]

I will say it again historical spots should be protected. I agree with you. But this opens up another can of worms.

What is considered historical?

I do believe BLM land is open. Some will disagree. That is fine. That is what debate is about.

Debates can get heated. Just because I might disagree with a few points does not mean that I think you are a bad person.

In fact I will delete my comment. Sorry about the hard feelings.

I did not take the Prozac remark to heart. Even when he said I was looting National Parks.

It is just words on a computer screen.

ericwt

 

[ericwt]

TimRino: Naw that was discovered in 1998 . I am looking for Pandora's Box. I have to see what is inside.

ericwt

 

[ericwt]

Let me try to make my point. I am not trying to attack or hurt anyones feelings.

In Somewhere in Arkansas there is a French Fort that was build before the land was considered to be America.

This Fort is on private property. Are the items around there more or less historical than Fort Laramie?

The French Fort was built way before Fort Laramie. The items on the French Fort would be more valuable than most of the items on Fort Laramie.

Yet even though it is on private property, an Archaeologist with the right contacts, can use laws and attorneys to violate the property owners rights to set up an excavation. Regardless of what the property owner wants.

Also are the bullets and dumps on a Civil War battlefield any different from what you might find from a skirmish site or a camp site? Not really but the Archaeologist can use the same laws to protect the campsite if he wanted too, regardless of property rights. The government can take away any rights you have to your property. Archaeologist know this and use it.

Most Archaeologist do not know of the sites I am talking about. But they do have that power using laws and other means.

Our freedoom as treasure hunters are being slowly erroded. I have been watching it happen for years.

Best to keep you mouth shut or you will be in a heap of trouble.

Wish I knew the answers.

ericwt

 

[diggemall]

Maybe what we need is to do like the NRA. Form up an association called the NTHA, or something. 50.00 a year gets you a subscription to LT mag and the rest goes to pay a few lobbyists that can bribe, er, I mean lobby representatives to loosen up the regs that make our lives miserable.......


I wonder just how many detectorists we could sign up........................

Diggem'

 

[ferrouser]

Eric, if historic sites should be protected

Protect them from the archaeologists too.

 

[Comanchero]

I said on another thread a good while ago, and I will say it again for all the newbies.
1. Trust absolutely no archaeologist or government "official" to ever have your best interests at heart. In fact expect the exact opposite!
2. Stay as far away from archaeologists and their ilk as far as possible! Unless you are a masochist and like suffering and pain.
3. Keep your mouth shut, if you want to stay happy.
4. Govt licensed archaelogists and others are the biggest known thieves in the treasure and artifact hunting worlds, per capita. They literally have a license to steal and rob anything they want, and their pay offs, er bribes, er I mean "donations" to powerful peoples gets them funding and anything else they need, to steal, er I mean appropriate anything of value and run roughshod over all of us "little peons!".
5. Many a whistleblower or would be whistleblowers have met untimely deaths one way or the other by trying to do the right thing by exposing the corruptness of well heeled, well connected archaelogists on many projects involving rich artifacts. DON'T BE ONE OF THEM!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Comanchero: Not all archies are the uppity-up "purist" types. Yes, some are, and they are to be avoided like the plague. I heard a story about a guy metal detecting on an east coast beach. Not sure if it was county, state, or fed. A lady-archaeologist was walking along the beach and saw this guy. She goes up and gives him the riot act about how he is taking historic artificats that belong to ALL the public, not just him. The md'r tried to explain to the lady archie that he was only finding clad and current losses. The lady archie was stumped on that one! So she retracts, thinks a second, and retorts: "well, 100 yrs. from now they WILL be historic then, so you still shouldn't be doing this" Doh! You can't win with that type.

BUT there are cool archies I have run into, that have no problem with detecting, even in public parks and such. As long as you're not sneaking into their 2X2 test pits, or historical monuments, etc.... I have in fact gotten good site tips from these cool archies, and assisted them on their digs at times. So point is, you can't lump them all into the same class of purists. But I still tread softly around them, until I know which kind they are

As for the initial link that started this thread, that appears to be written by the type that .... if it were left up to them, no detectors would even be allowed in the most innocuous sandbox. And those types, I've heard, even try to dissuade private landowners from letting md'rs onto their land. Case in point: An archie group got wind of how some detecting clubs would "rent" a field, where known CW battles or camps were, in order to have a big group outing. Even though it was private, permission granted, etc... the archie group went public with their dim view of it. I guess this is because, let's face it, archaeologists do sometime do digs/studies on private land too, so taken to the 10th degree, you're "looting" and "taking items out of context" there too. But hopefully this purist attitude doesn't spread. I've only met a few of those types, but other archies can be cool about it, as long as you show them a good respect of artifacts and sites.

 

[Comanchero]

OK Tom, I will concede that maybe 10% of them are decent human beings. But, the other 90% aren't worth spit, and you'd better know which one you are dealing with if you are going to be so foolish as open your yap in the first place.

I never wish bad on good people Tom, but it is persons like you that I do wish would have just one experience like I had in Belize with corrupt, American University archaeologists and the corrupt leaders of that country, and live to tell about it. Could open your eyes and mind a little brighter to the seriousness of what I am saying.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Yeah I've had bad experiences with archies. But ..... after feeling out which type the new ones I meet are, I find that I can "data mine" "name drop" etc....., if it turns out they are the cool kind. I don't think the ratio is 90/10. More like 50/50, here in the USA, at least in my area. Sure, if you walk up to them with a metal detector in hand talking about "treasures from protected sites", yes, then it would be 90/10 that dislike you.

I worked with an archie a few weeks ago, at a site that had been a late 1800s Chinese fishing village. Naturally, they went through the laborious little flag plant thing, GPS, dig with a paint-brush type-stuff (boring to us md'rs, who would just dig it up right there). But point is, I will be able to "name drop" with credentials like that, leading to more sites in the future. So.... sometimes it is necessary to "sleep with the enemy". Maybe not in Belize, but at least it's possible here to reach a compromise. But yes, I never mention my true intentions, untill I know which type I am dealing with

 

[Comanchero]

OK Tom, sounds like you are experienced and know what you are doing to your satisfaction, which all anyone can ask of themselves in any endeavors.

Like I state on my very first post, this advice is for newbies...... not old experienced pros like ourselves!