Anyone know what culture this pipe is from ?

Worthy55

Worthy55

Full Member
May 8, 2009
235
8
North , Fla.
I have posted my pipe on other threads here but I am trying to put a culture to it. I found it on the Gulf coast of North central Florida and I can't find out much about it other that it's around 1000 to 2500 years old or older and that it's the only bird effigy pipe of it's size 7 1/2" L X 4 " H X 2 3/4 " W ever found in Florida. So does anyone have any Ideas? 8) 8) 8) :)
 

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ivan salis said:
exactly DC Matt * totem type "eagle head" design -- from seattle to alaska range area ( upper northwest to alaska indains area)
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WOW! That is a really cool idea most of the people around here think that it has a Mayan influence because of where it was found and it's design style. Seattle is a long way from Florida. People have said that the pipe could be many different types of bird effigy from Osprey,Vulture to the Carolina Parakeet . 8) 8) 8) :)
 

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Sundancer said:
Always loved 'Big Bird'.. very interesting to see all the opinions about it..

~Mike
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Hi Mike , I thought I would post it here to try to get some more opinions on it and I have all are interesting also like you said. 8) 8) 8) :)
 

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John G. Scoggins said:
Was there any pottery or other artifacts anywhere close to where you found it?
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There were some pottery shards and some shell pieces scattered around where I found the pipe but I really don't remember much about them it's been awhile. I do have someshell things that I found near where I found the pipe ( Big Bird ) years later when I went back to try to find that spot again.8) 8) 8) :)
 

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i beleive its Seminole the bowl for a ceremonial pipe the wooden stem and mouth peice decayed away
 

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the seminole are indains formerly known as creek indains driven from their home lands in alabama and georgia into florida by american settler expansion ---they went into the panhandle area and were later chased into lower florida --by andrew jackson and allied indain troops when he raided into what was then "spanish" florida to stop their --"cross border raiding" of slave owning plantations *they "freed" the slaves and took them with them -- jackson knew the spanish were too weak to deal with the indains --or with him either for that matter * --frankly jackson really did not care if it sparked a war with spain --he felt if it did we would win and gain florida in the "peace" process
 

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as early as 1513 when spain laid claim to fla. there were as many as 200,000 Seminole living there and as far as the slaves white slave owners didnt like them because the protected run away slaves that showed up on their land that and the fact that the us wanted fla. is why there were the Seminole wars which was eventily stopped because the US had lost 1500 troops and the goverment then paid most of the Seminole to move out of fla.
 

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Seminoles did not appear until early 1700s , most of the 100,000 or more indians from the native tribes found in Florida when Europeans arrived were destroyed by disease and war with the Europeans...

From history of Florida http://www.keyshistory.org/FL-Fla-Ind.html

"From the beginning, the human race has progressed to higher and more efficient life styles. The various Indian cultures banded together into what we now call tribes. Those that were here when Columbus made his voyage are referred to as historic Indians or pre-Columbian Indians. Therefore, with the arrival of the white man and his written language, out went the prehistoric times and in came the historic times. Fragments of written evidence, such as hand written ship logs and guides (derroteros) began to appear.

At the beginning of the historic period, in 1492 AD, it is conservatively estimated that there were about 100,000 Indians living in Florida. Some estimate as many as 350,000. Accepting the first estimate, the distribution is thought of as this: Timucuans in the northeast, 40,000; Apalachee and Pensacola in the northwest, 25,000; Tocobaga in the west-central, 8,000; Calusa in the southwest, 20,000; Tequesta in the southeast, 5,000; Jeaga, Jobe and Ais in the east-central, 2,000. There were others, as well as sub-groups, i.e., Saturiwa, Santaluces, Boca Ratones, Tocobaga, etc. By the late 1700s, it is thought that all of these indigenous Indians were gone. Also, note that there is no mention of the Seminoles, as they did not enter Florida until the early 1700s."
 

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Not to get off subject but ivan is correct.The Seminole nation was not formed until the 18th century, through a process called ethnogeneses. Mainly (but not fully) comprised from the Creek tribes in Alabama, Georgia and Mississippi as well as African Americans who had escaped from slavery. Before the Seminoles were the Calusa for one as well as dozens of other tribes. Here is a little info on some of them-http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/florida/

Back on the subject of the pipe. I have spent several hours looking at effigy pipes and have yet to find anything even comparable to yours. If it belonged to me i'd have an expert look at it just for my own personal knowledge. I'm not trying to disclaim your peice, as I said before, i've never saw anything like it (though I am no expert) and it looks modern to me. I hope it does turn out to be authentic.
 

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diggummup said:
Not to get off subject but ivan is correct.The Seminole nation was not formed until the 18th century, through a process called ethnogeneses. Mainly (but not fully) comprised from the Creek tribes in Alabama, Georgia and Mississippi as well as African Americans who had escaped from slavery. Before the Seminoles were the Calusa for one as well as dozens of other tribes. Here is a little info on some of them-http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/florida/

Back on the subject of the pipe. I have spent several hours looking at effigy pipes and have yet to find anything even comparable to yours. If it belonged to me i'd have an expert look at it just for my own personal knowledge. I'm not trying to disclaim your peice, as I said before, i've never saw anything like it (though I am no expert) and it looks modern to me. I hope it does turn out to be authentic.
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Again thanks for your information on the Seminoles and you opinion of my pipe. 8) 8) 8) :)
 

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i stand corrected when i read the info i had looked up i didnt know that the 200k natives where ancesters of the people who would become known as seminole as others have posted through ethno genisis all your posts are good info
 

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Hey, here's another idea about the culture possibly associated with the pipe-- I don't know anything about Florida Indians, but I believe that your bird head looks alot like a parrot head carved from quartz crystal that I'd seen on the north coast of Colombia, perhaps from the Tayrona or Kogui culture, which dates back 500 to 1000 years... That beak looks familiar.

Maybe the pipe is from Central America or the Carribean coast of South America?

In any event, congratulations on finding such a treasure!

EF
 

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