✅ SOLVED anyone good at IDing old horseshoe ???

[rhoffart]

Found this near an 1850 structure but it could be newer then that. It was extremely rusty so I used Electrolysis to remove the rust. It appears to be very old but I'm not sure. It still has one nail.

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[kuger]

and how did the folks doing Agriculture work get around?Were their Draft/work horses not shod?After the war did the area become abandoned?

 

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[Skinsfan]

Before the Civil War in Spotsylvania it was just a agriculture, when the civil war came there were over 140,000+ union soldiers in the area and that doesn't count for how many the rebels had. You can walk into any part of the woods near the battlefield and find and see 100s if not 1000 of horse shoes laying around still to this day from the battle.

This one was found on what is left of a road that leads to the Rappohanock River. It is a friend of mines property and he was nice enough to let me hunt with him.

As it appears to be an old travel road, probably more there.

I wonder if to the sides of the road would be a good hunt spot.

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[HutSiteDigger]

This one was found on what is left of a road that leads to the Rappohanock River. It is a friend of mines property and he was nice enough to let me hunt with him.

As it appears to be an old travel road, probably more there.

I wonder if to the sides of the road would be a good hunt spot.

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I've hunted spots along River Road before and had some okay finds there with some confederate relics but it is touch and go in that area, once you head out toward US FORD where the union crossed the river from Stafford into Fredericksburg/Spotsy that has turned up some good union finds but it has been hunted to death by everyone and their grandma but River Road still has some good relics to be found.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

and how did the folks doing Agriculture work get around?Were their Draft/work horses not shod?After the war did the area become abandoned?

It is common to dig horse shoes from before or post Civil War in that area but from the amount of soldiers that spent year(s) in that area during the war it is lot more common if you find a horse shoe for it to be civil war. But finding horse shoes from post and pre are common too, that is the bad thing about digging horse shoes (if you are into horse shoes) you dig or find so many of them you automatic think it is a Civil War shoe when in fact it could be a colonial or post civil war..

 

[skeeterd]

HSD, what are the characteristics of this shoe that makes you think it came from Burden Iron Works?

 

[HutSiteDigger]

HSD, what are the characteristics of this shoe that makes you think it came from Burden Iron Works?

Machine made and i'm only trying to point out it could be a burden iron works shoe that Rhoff posted, from from the good quality of the looks of it and it looking like a burden iron shoe. Since Burdens rarely engraved any of their shoes it can be like Kuger is saying quite tough to determine but it is possible.

 

[BosnMate]

....I fit into that "Cowboy shoer",class...... Just tacked on till i can get to someone who has a much stronger back than I!!!!

Here are those shoes from yesterday....I am like HSD,I hang em in tree's,unless there is something really unique about them....we have enough "new",ones kicking around!!

I don't have any back left at all, the ignorance of youth, bullet proof and all that. Anyhow, that's besides the point. My guess would be the shoe on the right came off of a buggy horse, one that trotted a lot. That's a corrective shoe for a horse that's interfering. It's a front shoe, and that tit sticking out on the left toe is where the foot wants to break over and swing in, hitting the other front leg. So they heat the toe of the shoe red hot, and pull that tit, which tends to cause the foot to break over the toe and travel straighter, unless I'm looking at the bottom of the shoe, it that case it was to stop the horse from paddling or winging out, or it's for the left foot and would be to keep the left foot from interfering, but the way it sits in the picture it looks like it's for a right foot. It also looks like they wanted a little animated action in the way the animal traveled, wanting the foot to be picked up higher than normal, because all the wear is in the heels. It looks to me like they made the toe of the shoe heavier, thicker, so when the foot broke over there would be a tendency for it to be thrown up on an animated prance, a higher gait like an American Saddlebred. The center shoe has a toe grab and corks, and is kind of shaped like a hind shoe, probably also off a animal used in a team, and the left one looks to me like it could very well have been used on a mule, with the sides being so straight back. The heels don't look like something that would be on a front foot of a saddle horse, but would be OK on a mule. I'm adding this after I posted the above, the center shoe was called into question that it might be machine made. If a shoe was machine made, the blacksmith still had to turn the corks and either braze or weld the grab on the toe. Until the Diamond Drop Forged shoes came along I brazed toe grabs. The grab was seperate from the shoe, and had a sharp tit on it. The shoe was heated, and the tit pounded into the shoe, the purpose being only to hold the grab in place while it's being brazed. After applying a flux, the smith would lay bits of brass against the grab, and heat it in the forge until the brass ran, thus brazing the grab into place. The other way is to forge weld the grab, and close examination might show the weld, but it wouldn't have to, some guys are better than others. I've no idea how machine made shoes were done in those days, but the grabs and heels were not pre done, the was the horse shoers job. Just from looking at the pictures they look hand made to me, but I can't prove it.

 

[BosnMate]

How about this one that i found in Virginia, near Chancelorville. Does not appear to have any depressions.

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You have a mule shoe. I don't know what you mean by depressions. There should be eight nail holes and a grooves for the nail heads to seat in. But the rust has probably covered all that up, so you can't easily see it.

 

[BosnMate]

Skinsfan since you said you found that one over in Spotsy near the battle field (and maybe Bosonmate can way in on this) that shoe look like a shoe that would have been used by the confederates since this shoe does not look Machine Made. The union had the pleasure of having most of their supplies machine made from up north while the confederates pretty much had to home make everything.. If you were able to pick up most confederate horse shoes and then a union shoe you would be able to tell which one was machine made and which one was made by a blacksmith. The horse shoes the confederates had after you dig them up you can basically twist them apart but the ones Burden Irons made you would need the jaws of life too twist them apart.

Also for Kuger just judging from the pictures you posted of the shoes you're daughter found yesterday the one in the middle looks Machine Made while the last one on the right looks like it was not machine made and the first one I can't really tell...

I don't know anything about confederate horse shoes. However the south would not have had the access to steel that the north had, so horse shoes manufactured in the north probably were made with mild steel, while the south was forced to use wrought iron. You can tell wrought iron because it has a grain, and the grain can be seen in really rusted items. The rust tends to get in between the long sort of fibrous grains. Also, wrought iron when pounded cold will seperate, the grains actually pull apart. I would expect that's why the confederate shoes don't hold up as well and are easily broken apart.

 

[Paleopilot]

I don't know anything about confederate horse shoes. However the south would not have had the access to steel that the north had, so horse shoes manufactured in the north probably were made with mild steel, while the south was forced to use wrought iron. You can tell wrought iron because it has a grain, and the grain can be seen in really rusted items. The rust tends to get in between the long sort of fibrous grains. Also, wrought iron when pounded cold will seperate, the grains actually pull apart. I would expect that's why the confederate shoes don't hold up as well and are easily broken apart.

Sorry but, I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of Wrought iron. It has been favored by smiths throughout nearly all of ironwork history. It is produced by refining and rolling after further heating the first pig iron, so as to reduce the carbon and to remove most of the impurities. The resulting iron that has been rolled to produce strips has a fibrous nature that makes it particularly suitable for shaping by hammering. It is the most tough, ductile, and malleable form of iron. It also has a greater resistance to corrosion than most other types of iron. The first light rusting forms a protective film that reduces further corrosion. Unfortunately, wrought iron is no longer readily available. It has been replaced by mild steel, which is iron with a small amount of carbon in it. This steel is superior for machining and structural work, but is not as satisfactory for blacksmithing.

 

[BosnMate]

Sorry, I didn't say there was anything wrong with with wrought iron, and I agree with your post. Hand forged rifle barrels were made out of wrought iron, and it's a pleasure to work with. However, whether it protects itself from rust or not, I don't know, I just speak from experience of finding items made from wrought iron, very rusted with the grain showing. I said in the post I know nothing of confederate horse shoes, and don't know if they were made from wrought iron. I do know that if wrought iron is pounded on cold it will split and separate, because I've done it. It's a pleasure to work with red hot. Back in the 50's you could still get re-bar made out of wrought iron and we used that for among other things, making horse shoes, actually swedging training plates for race horses. I don't have any wrought iron now, so I can't show a picture of what it does cold. If my thoughts on confederate shoes are correct, they will be able to see the grain in the rust. No grain, then there is some other reason for the shoes to break easily, which I would know nothing about. I will freely admit I have no book learning on the subject of iron and steel, my limited knowledge is actually what I've seen and done. After seeing the iron separate when cold, looking at the rusted stuff I assumed I was looking at wrought iron seeing the same type of thing, only rusty. After finding one larger item, which I believe was part of a spike for driving into a log for rafting logs on a pond, which I reworked it into a lance point, long long ago and far far away, but now have no idea where it is, so no chance at photos.

 

[Paleopilot]

Sorry, I didn't say there was anything wrong with with wrought iron, and I agree with your post. Hand forged rifle barrels were made out of wrought iron, and it's a pleasure to work with. However, whether it protects itself from rust or not, I don't know, I just speak from experience of finding items made from wrought iron, very rusted with the grain showing. I said in the post I know nothing of confederate horse shoes, and don't know if they were made from wrought iron. I do know that if wrought iron is pounded on cold it will split and separate, because I've done it. It's a pleasure to work with red hot. Back in the 50's you could still get re-bar made out of wrought iron and we used that for among other things, making horse shoes, actually swedging training plates for race horses. I don't have any wrought iron now, so I can't show a picture of what it does cold. If my thoughts on confederate shoes are correct, they will be able to see the grain in the rust. No grain, then there is some other reason for the shoes to break easily, which I would know nothing about. I will freely admit I have no book learning on the subject of iron and steel, my limited knowledge is actually what I've seen and done. After seeing the iron separate when cold, looking at the rusted stuff I assumed I was looking at wrought iron seeing the same type of thing, only rusty. After finding one larger item, which I believe was part of a spike for driving into a log for rafting logs on a pond, which I reworked it into a lance point, long long ago and far far away, but now have no idea where it is, so no chance at photos.

Things you may want to consider when investigating iron and steel artifacts, the amount of carbon in mild steel does not effect it's hardness, and there is no way that heat treatment can have any appreciable effect in hardening or softening it. If the proportion of carbon is increased, the characteristics of the steel are altered. If the carbon content is about 2 percent, this is high carbon or tool steel. Steel with this amount of carbon can be made harder by heating and quenching, this process is known as tempering. Another heat treatment removes the hardness. It is this steel from which tools are made by a blacksmith. It will make springs and was used to make armor.
An easy way to determine the carbon content of a sample is to touch it to bench grinder and observe the sparks. Long, bright white sparks are a sure sign of high carbon steel. Small, orange dim spark or almost none, would indicate very soft mild steel. A hand file will also tell the story after one gets the "feel" for it.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Thanks for all the good info guys!! BosonMate you really do know a heck of a lot about horse shoes and what goes into making them,etc. Thank you sir for all the good info!

 

[rhoffart]

Made a Shadow Box to show off my find.