✅ SOLVED anyone good at IDing old horseshoe ???

[rhoffart]

Found this near an 1850 structure but it could be newer then that. It was extremely rusty so I used Electrolysis to remove the rust. It appears to be very old but I'm not sure. It still has one nail.

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[rhoffart]

what state was it dug?

Near Bandera, Texas

 

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[rhoffart]

The shoe doesn't appear to have much wear, and perhaps it was lost before it was used. Also no remains of nails in the holes makes me think it's new and wasn't accidentally pulled off.

There is an old nail in picture 4 and 5. It was a bit longer before the cleaning process but there is a little remain. Thanks a ton for your reply.

 

[cdsieg]

Near Bandera, Texas

The cowboy capital of the world! I loved Bandera it was so cool seeing just as many horses parked outside of places as cars!

 

[kuger]

There was absolutly no reason,and I would love to see some documentation of horse shoes from Nrw York being shipped west....that means Texas too,during the 19th century

 

[Mich. Wolverine]

Great info. guys. I live in northern lower Michigan in a town that was started from logging. I think that most of the shoes that I have found are from horses that either pulled carts or logs. Out of all the old pictures I have seen I never seen one that had someone riding a horse or tied up in front of business although I sure some people did ride them. These are a few a them and they are all different shapes and sizes.

 

[kuger]

My daughter dug three "Colonial",shoes today(according to that book)....in Calif,from a 1850's site pics tommorrow

 

[HutSiteDigger]

There was absolutly no reason,and I would love to see some documentation of horse shoes from Nrw York being shipped west....that means Texas too,during the 19th century

Where ever there was union soldiers there were horse shoes, if you are not knowledgeable about Texas in the Civil War here is something brief:

Texas did not experience many significant battles. However, the Union mounted several attempts to capture the Trans-Mississippi regions of Texas and Louisiana from 1862 until the war's end. With ports to the east under blockade or captured, Texas in particular became a blockade-running haven. Referred to as the "back door" of the Confederacy, Texas and western Louisiana continued to provide cotton crops that were transferred overland to the Mexican border town of Matamoros, Tamaulipas, and shipped to Europe in exchange for supplies. Determined to close this trade, the Union mounted several attacks, each of them unsuccessful.

Federal troops did not arrive in Texas to restore order until June 19, 1865, when Union Maj. Gen. Gordon Granger and 2,000 Union soldiers arrived on Galveston Island to take possession of the state and enforce the new freedoms of former slaves. The Texas holiday Juneteenth commemorates this date. The Stars and Stripes were not raised over Austin until June 25.[15]
President Andrew Johnson appointed Union General Andrew J. Hamilton, a prominent politician before the war, as the provisional governor on June 17. He granted amnesty to ex-Confederates if they promised to support the Union in the future, appointing some to office. However, it was not until March 30, 1870, that the United States Congress permitted Texas' representatives to take their seat in Congress,[16] although Texas did not meet all the formal requirements for readmission.

I can't even founder how many union soldiers traveled through Texas during the war and i'm sure it is quite common to find a Burdens horse shoe in Texas.

 

[kuger]

Where ever there was union soldiers there were horse shoes, if you are not knowledgeable about Texas in the Civil War here is something brief:

Texas did not experience many significant battles. However, the Union mounted several attempts to capture the Trans-Mississippi regions of Texas and Louisiana from 1862 until the war's end. With ports to the east under blockade or captured, Texas in particular became a blockade-running haven. Referred to as the "back door" of the Confederacy, Texas and western Louisiana continued to provide cotton crops that were transferred overland to the Mexican border town of Matamoros, Tamaulipas, and shipped to Europe in exchange for supplies. Determined to close this trade, the Union mounted several attacks, each of them unsuccessful.

Federal troops did not arrive in Texas to restore order until June 19, 1865, when Union Maj. Gen. Gordon Granger and 2,000 Union soldiers arrived on Galveston Island to take possession of the state and enforce the new freedoms of former slaves. The Texas holiday Juneteenth commemorates this date. The Stars and Stripes were not raised over Austin until June 25.[15]
President Andrew Johnson appointed Union General Andrew J. Hamilton, a prominent politician before the war, as the provisional governor on June 17. He granted amnesty to ex-Confederates if they promised to support the Union in the future, appointing some to office. However, it was not until March 30, 1870, that the United States Congress permitted Texas' representatives to take their seat in Congress,[16] although Texas did not meet all the formal requirements for readmission.

I can't even founder how many union soldiers traveled through Texas during the war and i'm sure it is quite common to find a Burdens horse shoe in Texas.

HSD,I do not need a lesson where there were Union Soldiers,I do need some documentation of horse shoes being shipped from NEW YORK,to Texas... why there were Forges with Attachments of Dragoons,and Cavalry?Likely because the Farrier was making shoes as they went.Maybe they did?Show me!

 

[HutSiteDigger]

If you know how things were shipped during the war then I do not understand why you would want "documentation" they made millions of Burden horse shoes during the war & they would ship them by railroads & ferries from New York to a camp,fort or city that was in control by the union then by using wagons they would take them to where the supplies had to go, they would not make a bundle of say 10,000 horse shoes then ship them by mail to Texas during the war...

 

[kuger]

HSD.....I didnt just fall off the turnip truck.....yes,I am aware HOW,I am asking WHY,and want to see proof!!!Texas was not no mans land,there would be no reason to bring....have something like that shipped that they could get there!!Shoes are like tires,everybody needed them,and they were everywhere!!I have studied shipping rolls quite extensivly,and just have never seen mention of horseshoes...Prove me wrong,I am never un willing to learn something new.Also aside from "feel",there is no way you can identify a horse shoe from that foundary,once its been forge shaped and used....and likely even before that

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Texas was No mans land for the union they had no idea what they were getting into that is why they did not have success in Texas.. how would the union soldiers be able too make horse shoes during the long journey to and from Texas? they would have too bring a heck of a lot of metal with them and if a horse shoe broke off the horse or got broke you can't be waiting for someone too just make one or go too the local store in Texas and have a union soldier get a replacement, they had wagons filled with supplies that would follow the regiments and all the supplies the wagons were filled with came from a northern manufacture or where made on the spot or were stolen from the confederates. You may need to look at those shipping rolls a little more closely because it is very hard to miss Millions of good quality horse shoes being shipped to the union from NY and you can research Burdens Irons and get more insight on how it was done.

 

[BosnMate]

HSD.....I didnt just fall off the turnip truck.....yes,I am aware HOW,I am asking WHY,and want to see proof!!!Texas was not no mans land,there would be no reason to bring....have something like that shipped that they could get there!!Shoes are like tires,everybody needed them,and they were everywhere!!I have studied shipping rolls quite extensivly,and just have never seen mention of horseshoes...Prove me wrong,I am never un willing to learn something new.Also aside from "feel",there is no way you can identify a horse shoe from that foundary,once its been forge shaped and used....and likely even before that

Horses feet are all different sizes, and horse shoes reflect those sizes, most saddle horse sizes being 0 to 3, with the most common size being 1's and 2's. A horse wearing size 2 in front will many times be size 1 behind. Then there are the larger draft horses with feet size 3 to 6 if I remember correctly, I didn't work on many draft horses. It's relatively easy for the blacksmith to make a large shoe smaller, but to make a small shoe a lot larger is almost impossible. So, lets say a regiment of Cavalry is on the move. You have 1100 mounted men, plus wagons full of feed and supplies, and perhaps a battery of artillery accompanying them, which accounts for several hundred more horses and mules. Mules feet are a different shape form horses, so that requires even more kegs of mule shoes in different sizes. Even if there is only a company of Cavalry, that's 100 mounts and probably an equal number of horses in teams pulling supply wagons. I have a US Army training manual for teaching horseshoers, and if everything was going by the book, the army pulled and reset or replaced the shoes on every horse and every mule in the outfit, every 6 weeks. The hoof wall of a horse grows 3/8's inch per month, the army didn't want their horses to have excess hoof wall of over a half inch. Now, just stop for a moment and think about the logistics. A keg of horseshoes is heavy, and there would have to be kegs of each size of shoe, depending on the length of the campaign, and even if they were going for say 2 or 3 months and the farrier only carried replacements for each horse, there is still a lot of weight involved. To solve that problem, I've read that it was standard practice for the trooper to carry two shoes that fit his horse, so if a shoe was lost in the field, it could be replaced. So yes, there were machine made shoes, but due to logistics of sizes and weight, they would have been in more permanent locations, shipped by train and river steamer, while the farrier on the move with his portable forge would have bar stock, and he could make and fit four horse shoes in less time than it's taking me to type this. I might add, just because they were machine made shoes does not mean there was no need for an anvil and forge. What we call "cowboy" shoers today will nail on a machine made shoe and rasp the hoof wall to fit the shoe. The army required the farrier to fit each shoe to the horses foot, cut the heels, leave room for expansion of the foot at the horses heel, cup the shoe so there would be no sole pressure, and make sure the shoe was level before nailing it on, requiring the use of a forge and anvil. So both of you guys are right, but bar stock can be made into any size shoe, and be used for other repairs to wagons etc. while kegs of shoes are also heavy, requiring more unnecessary weight than bar stock.

 

[kuger]

....I fit into that "Cowboy shoer",class...... Just tacked on till i can get to someone who has a much stronger back than I!!!!

Here are those shoes from yesterday....I am like HSD,I hang em in tree's,unless there is something really unique about them....we have enough "new",ones kicking around!!

 

[Skinsfan]

How about this one that i found in Virginia, near Chancelorville. Does not appear to have any depressions.

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[skeeterd]

....I fit into that "Cowboy shoer",class...... Just tacked on till i can get to someone who has a much stronger back than I!!!!

I'm with Kuger. By the time I'm done shaping a keg shoe, it looks like a hand forged shoe!

 

[HutSiteDigger]

How about this one that i found in Virginia, near Chancelorville. Does not appear to have any depressions.

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Skinsfan since you said you found that one over in Spotsy near the battle field (and maybe Bosonmate can way in on this) that shoe look like a shoe that would have been used by the confederates since this shoe does not look Machine Made. The union had the pleasure of having most of their supplies machine made from up north while the confederates pretty much had to home make everything.. If you were able to pick up most confederate horse shoes and then a union shoe you would be able to tell which one was machine made and which one was made by a blacksmith. The horse shoes the confederates had after you dig them up you can basically twist them apart but the ones Burden Irons made you would need the jaws of life too twist them apart.

Also for Kuger just judging from the pictures you posted of the shoes you're daughter found yesterday the one in the middle looks Machine Made while the last one on the right looks like it was not machine made and the first one I can't really tell...

 

[Skinsfan]

Skinsfan since you said you found these over in Spotsy near the battle field (and maybe Bosonmate can way in on this) those shoes look like a shoe that would have been used by the confederates since these shoes do not look Machine Made. The union had the pleasure of having most of their supplies machine made from up north while the confederates pretty much had to home make everything.. If you were able to pick up most confederate horse shoes and then a union shoe you would be able to tell which one was machine made and which one was made by a blacksmith. The horse shoes the confederates had after you dig them up you can basically twist them apart but the ones Burden Irons made you would need the jaws of life too twist them apart.

Also for Kuger just judging from the pictures you posted of the shoes you're daughter found yesterday the one in the middle looks Machine Made while the last one on the right looks like it was not machine made and the first one I can't really tell...

Thanks! I may lean on you for some more information as i find stuff. Sounds like you are very knowledgeable.

The smaller two items look like buckles and the small item u have no idea.

If you ever feel like breaking in 45 year old newbie..let me know!

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[kuger]

HSD.....pretty sure all three of these were forged....I can promise you these were in sites,I know for fact the exact age,and the lack of availability to anything shipped in.....I posted them to show the book which stated the characteristics of a Colonial shoe were "off".

I have to ask HSD,you always jump to Union,or Confed. .........what was in "Spotsy",before and after the Civil War?Why does everything have to come back to the Civil War?People act like nothing was going on in the US prior...only thing during was battles and killing....other folks werent just living,and after....

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Thanks! I may lean on you for some more information as i find stuff. Sounds like you are very knowledgeable. If you ever feel like breaking in 45 year old newbie..let me know!

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LOL well after digging up 100s of horse shoes ( I think I average like 1 or 2 horse shoes every time I go out CW hunting since really know other MDers take them they are left everywhere in holes,on trees,etc) i can say I have seen my share of good quality and worse quality horse shoes i have literally dug confederate horse shoes that crumble in your hand and it is really amazing that the rebels were able to keep the union @ bay for years with the limited supplies and "supply making" techniques the rebels had during that time while the north had major factories producing supplies.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

HSD.....pretty sure all three of these were forged....I can promise you these were in sites,I know for fact the exact age,and the lack of availability to anything shipped in.....I posted them to show the book which stated the characteristics of a Colonial shoe were "off".

I have to ask HSD,you always jump to Union,or Confed. .........what was in "Spotsy",before and after the Civil War?Why does everything have to come back to the Civil War?People act like nothing was going on in the US prior...only thing during was battles and killing....other folks werent just living,and after....

Before the Civil War in Spotsylvania it was just a agriculture, when the civil war came there were over 140,000+ union soldiers in the area and that doesn't count for how many the rebels had. You can walk into any part of the woods near the battlefield and find and see 100s if not 1000 of horse shoes laying around still to this day from the battle.