✅ SOLVED anyone good at IDing old horseshoe ???

[rhoffart]

Found this near an 1850 structure but it could be newer then that. It was extremely rusty so I used Electrolysis to remove the rust. It appears to be very old but I'm not sure. It still has one nail.

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[HutSiteDigger]

I believe your style of horse shoe and the quality of it would make it a Burden Iron Works of Troy, New York... They manufactured nearly all the horseshoes used by the Union in the civil war and many pre civil war.. Yours appears to be maybe a little pre civil war style, if you can tell from the photo these two in the photo are 90% of the ones you would dig in a union civil war camp or area.

 

[wvwildman]

not that old looks like some of the ones ive got when we had horse's back in the 90's

 

[rhoffart]

I believe your style of horse shoe and the quality of it would make it a Burden Iron Works of Troy, New York... They manufactured nearly all the horseshoes used by the Union in the civil war and many pre civil war.. Yours appears to be maybe a little pre civil war style, if you can tell from the photo these two in the photo are 90% of the ones you would dig in a union civil war camp or area.

The one on the right seems to be a good match.

 

[rhoffart]

not that old looks like some of the ones ive got when we had horse's back in the 90's

I think it was in the ground for a long time.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

I think it was in the ground for a long time.

Best way to really ID these for age is with the rust on them, I know electrolysis as you did with this shoe works very well on horse shoes as too the point you can basically bring it back without all the rust.

 

[kuger]

I have to interject........#1 horse shoes were hand forged the majority of the time by the farrier/blacksmith,there is/was no particular style.There are pulling shoes...ones with the "knobs",on the ends,for traction,there were studded,for use on ice,there were corrective shoes for various hoof issues a horse may have,and on and on........not a whole lot has changed from shoes used today vs shoes from 160 years ago,aside from the "blanks",that are purchased now...which are still shaped just like they did way back when.Another thing is that shoes were like tires today,they were in use every where for everything,just because one is found on a battlefield does not prove it was used in any battle action,somebody horseback riding or farmng could have lost that shoe.Also,rust has everything to do with mineral and moisture content of soil,I can show you two metal objects from the exact same period,each buried in different soils have completly different degrees of rust...or no rust at all(matter of fact.....I can show you iron that is dead on 1860,with no rust what so ever)

 

[HutSiteDigger]

I have to interject........#1 horse shoes were hand forged the majority of the time by the farrier/blacksmith,there is/was no particular style.

I think your right in it being super hard to really pin point but during the Civil War the way Burden Iron Works of Troy, New York made their horse shoes you can pretty much tell if you dig enough of their horse shoes if it was one made by just a local blacksmith or by Burden Iron Works. Their horse shoes they made during 1861-1865 and they made million or so of them .

 

[kuger]

I think your right in it being super hard to really pin point but during the Civil War the way Burden Iron Works of Troy, New York made there horse shoes you can pretty much tell if you dig enough of there horse shoes if it was one made by just a local blacksmith or by Burden Iron Works. There horse shoes they made during 1861-1865 and they made million or so of them .

...they must have just made the blanks,because horse shoes are not tack and go....they are fire forged to fit the individual hoof......still today

 

[rhoffart]

I have to interject........#1 horse shoes were hand forged the majority of the time by the farrier/blacksmith,there is/was no particular style.There are pulling shoes...ones with the "knobs",on the ends,for traction,there were studded,for use on ice,there were corrective shoes for various hoof issues a horse may have,and on and on........not a whole lot has changed from shoes used today vs shoes from 160 years ago,aside from the "blanks",that are purchased now...which are still shaped just like they did way back when.Another thing is that shoes were like tires today,they were in use every where for everything,just because one is found on a battlefield does not prove it was used in any battle action,somebody horseback riding or farmng could have lost that shoe.Also,rust has everything to do with mineral and moisture content of soil,I can show you two metal objects from the exact same period,each buried in different soils have completly different degrees of rust...or no rust at all(matter of fact.....I can show you iron that is dead on 1860,with no rust what so ever)

Ok, knowing nothing about horseshoes is the whole reason for this post. I was asking if someone could ID the shoe and give me an idea of the age. I am cataloging all my finds and adding a little history when possible. If it was made in 1800's Wow, if pre 1950 ok, at least I got my story that I'm looking to capture.

 

[kuger]

Ok, knowing nothing about horseshoes is the whole reason for this post. I was asking if someone could ID the shoe and give me an idea of the age. I am cataloging all my finds and adding a little history when possible. If it was made in 1800's Wow, if pre 1950 ok, at least I got my story that I'm looking to capture.

Thats honestly a call I am not willing to make,and I dont know how someone could,but if Hutsite digger says the blank of it was made by that foundary,during his given dates........

 

[rhoffart]

just found this ...

Epic story of conflict and courage - Times Union

Doesn't seem to be the same ... I guess I'll just go with "OLD"

 

[cdsieg]

Here is a link to a post that I got quite the education on horseshoes from BosnMate, excellent information take a look! http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/284872-solved-how-do-you-date-horseshoes.html

 

[HutSiteDigger]

I have seen other guys take the time to do electrolysis on Burden Iron Works civil war horse shoes before and they come out just like yours did and i was stunned on how good electrolysis works on good quality horse shoes! it is a pitty that electrolysis won't work real good on a lot of other metal artifacts but the quality and good workmanship of Burden Iron Works really shows even after 150+ years. If you pick up and handle one of Burdens horse shoes compared to basically any other horse shoe from the 19th century and even more modern horse shoes you will be able to tell the good craftsmanship of the shoe in strength and quality if you were to take a made local blacksmith horse shoe and then get a Burden Iron Works horse shoe and compare the two by picking them up and handling them you will be able to tell real quick the difference, I am just judging your horse shoe in being a Burden Iron because of the electrolysis you said you did and it being "Extremely rusty" and the way it came out after the electrolysis and if you look and compare your shoe with the two photos I posted earlier it appears to be very similar too the ones Burden made, the only thing with Burden is they didn't engrave almost any shoes so it can be tough to 100% ID it has a burden unless you dug it in a civil war area more of less because like Kuger said it can be very tough in IDing a horse shoe just from the git go! Next time you do electrolysis on a horse shoe do a Before And After photo that would be pretty good too see.

 

[rhoffart]

I have seen other guys take the time to do electrolysis on Burden Iron Works civil war horse shoes before and they come out just like yours did and i was stunned on how good electrolysis works on good quality horse shoes! it is a pitty that electrolysis won't work real good on a lot of other metal artifacts but the quality and good workmanship of Burden Iron Works really shows even after 150+ years. If you pick up and handle one of Burdens horse shoes compared to basically any other horse shoe from the 19th century and even more modern horse shoes you will be able to tell the good craftsmanship of the shoe in strength and quality if you were to take a made local blacksmith horse shoe and then get a Burden Iron Works horse shoe and compare the two by picking them up and handling them you will be able to tell real quick the difference, I am just judging your horse shoe in being a Burden Iron because of the electrolysis you said you did and it being "Extremely rusty" and the way it came out after the electrolysis and if you look and compare your shoe with the two photos I posted earlier it appears to be very similar too the ones Burden made, the only thing with Burden is they didn't engrave almost any shoes so it can be tough to 100% ID it has a burden unless you dug it in a civil war area more of less because like Kuger said it can be very tough in IDing a horse shoe just from the git go! Next time you do electrolysis on a horse shoe do a Before And After photo that would be pretty good too see.

Cool, thanks a ton

 

[kuger]

what state was it dug?

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Also just like Cindy put the link on here is a photo of how to try and ID the age of a horse shoe.

 

[kuger]

Also just like Cindy put the link on here is a photo of how to try and ID the age of a horse shoe.

...and because its in a book....is that like if its on the internet...means its true?Read Bosn's reply right after that.....Bosn was a farrier for many,many years....I have tacked a "few",on myself,and been around horses my entire life....I can tell you "aging",them by the distance between the points/ends,as stated in the book,is completly off base.Horses hooves have not evolved to something different today...again shoes are FORM FIT to the hoof

...also....I can go out to the barn and show 10-20 shoes that look just like the one in question.....I guarantee they ddnt come from New York,and you dont know what sise of the Missis. this shoe was dug?

 

[HutSiteDigger]

...and because its in a book....is that like if its on the internet...means its true?Read Bosn's reply right after that.....Bosn was a farrier for many,many years....I have tacked a "few",on myself,and been around horses my entire life....I can tell you "aging",them by the distance between the points/ends,as stated in the book,is completly off base.Horses hooves have not evolved to something different today...again shoes are FORM FIT to the hoof

...also....I can go out to the barn and show 10-20 shoes that look just like the one in question.....I guarantee they ddnt come from New York,and you dont know what sise of the Missis. this shoe was dug?

I agree Kuger it is very hard to ID horse shoes I am only stating that it "could be" a Burden horse shoe from seeing and digging 100s of burdens horse shoes (which 90% of my horse shoes I dig I hang them on a tree) before and im sure the horse shoes you have if they are from the 19th century a good chance that some of yours may be a Burden regardless what side of the river your on.

 

[BosnMate]

It's a front shoe off a horse with a healthy foot. Other than that, Kuger is right, a horse shoe is a horse shoe and not much has changed to be able to pin down a date. But I'll make an educated guess. Looking at the fuller, that's the crease that the nail heads fit into, the shoe looks to me to be machine made and not hand forged. If it's hand forged, the guy was darn good at his job, which is also quite possible, I was never that good of a blacksmith, but I know guys today that are that good. The shoe doesn't appear to have much wear, and perhaps it was lost before it was used. Also no remains of nails in the holes makes me think it's new and wasn't accidentally pulled off. The fact that the width of the web at the toe is narrow, and the machine made front shoes that I'm familiar with had a wider web at the toe gives me a bit of a problem. However I don't think it will help you date the shoe, because early shoes also had a wider web at the toe. Your shoe actually looks like the blacksmith fit a hind shoe to a front foot. I can't tell the size in the photo, but it looks large, like a larger work horse rather than a saddle horse. The corks, (caulks) appear to have been turned by the blacksmith and not already machine turned like some modern shoes sold today, so that means the shoe was worked in a forge and fitted hot. As far as brand or age, I've nailed a lot of horseshoes on front feet that look just like that one, except I shod mostly saddle horses and very seldom turned corks on the heels of the front feet. But, and it's a big but, I lived where there were mild winters, and that kind of traction wasn't needed, there was no ice or snow. Corks on front shoes is/was something that's done quite a bit for horses working in a team. As far as age, it's really impossible to pin it down as a fact, but a safe guess would be to say the shoe is before 1950, and there is no reason it couldn't date to the civil war, or even before, it's not like cars, the anatomy of a horses foot has been the same forever, and there have been millions of the critters. There have probably been more changes to horseshoe nails than to the shoes themselves.