anyone ever had a tresspass on church property or school property after dark?

groundhogdd said:
if you go to whites web site they have a permission form you can down load get it signed before you dig. i have been detained many times but after showing permission form all was good.
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I agree with you and disagree with Professor Tom.
 

# 38, I would sign it, professor Tom. But, if it was any family members, I would refuse to sign it, because I do not trust any of my family members.
 

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DeepseekerADS said:
One of the reasons I quit the hobby in about '87 was that every time I went detecting on public property I had to talk nicely to a cop, politely turn off my detector and immediately leave. That bummed me into submission and abandonment back then. Hopefully I've come back more educated, and definitely devoted to "permissions".
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I'm a little confused. If you were getting "scrammed" and "ushered away" by cops when md'ing public property, then ... why ? Under what law or rule were they doing this ? Was there a law that said "no md'ing" ? If so, then who can give you "permission" then to detect at places where there's a specific prohibition ? For example: Shoplifting is not allowed. Right ? Because there's a law against it. Right ? Ok, how successful do you think I'd be if I went in to the police dept. and asked "hello, can I please have permission to shoplift" ?

So I'm trying to figure out why you were getting booted. Perhaps it's because someone thought you were about to leave holes. Ie.: the dreaded "alter" and "deface" verbiage. Ok, so if you think permission will head-this-off-at-the-pass (and your name-dropping and paper in your back-pocket will deflect all busy-bodies), then how do you phrase it when you show up asking at city halls ? Eg.: "Hi, can I dig holes in the park please?". Or are you more ... uh ... discreet and say "Hi can I metal detect?" (since mention of "holes" and "dig" are sure-fire permission killers. Eh ?)

Ok, so assuming you've minced words and only said "metal detecting" rather than "dig" and "holes", ok: What do you do if the following happens: You get accosted . You proudly whip out your permission. The person who's griping (cop or gardener or whomever) simply gets on his cell-phone, calls down to city hall and says: " But he's tearing the place up" (which isn't true, of course). Then guess what happens to your permission ?

I don't disagree that it's a more comforting feeling to be carrying around "permission" (as if it were needed) for public parks. And ... sure .... it might deflect some busy-bodies. Granted. But I'd just be worried that if I'm showing up at city halls asking "can I metal detect", that I could get a "no", before I even start. There are SCORES of examples of this, if you wish to see the links. People who went in asking, and fetched "no's", where no rule or law *specifically* said such a thing. At places where, quite frankly, md'ing was never a problem before.

Do you see how you could be shooting yourself in your own foot ? And worse yet: Guess what that pencil-pusher desk-jockey will think, the next time he passes a park and sees an md'r ? (whom he might never have given a 2nd glance to before). He'll remember the earlier inquiry, and start booting others !! I've seen this happen before. It becomes a self-fulfilling vicious loop.
 

It's weird the law specifically states churches. I was picked up for trespassing in college once, I got the case thrown out though. Technically to trespass you have to be told not to or indicated not to by some means(ie a posted sign, verbally, cross a fence, and so on) or the property owner has to call and report the trespassing. I got out of mine because the officer tried to do it and the land owner never made the complaint. Just goes to show it pays to read the laws.
 

Outcome tell them you had permission. Ask them if th7ey believe in God. Then when they say yes tell them God led you there and gave you permission
 

I guess if the code of ethics were followed, this would have been a short thread,, no judging, im just saying
 

Again, the key I think here is "Night time". It's kind of like night time= hiding=suspicious activity. At least when by yourself wondering around, (of course it's with a detector) but can LOOK very suspicious to many people. I've gone to many schools on the weekends with no problem, but have not done any churches (although I've wanted to) thinking they are private property. It would be like detecting a parking strip at night, and someone COULD think that you are prowling cars etc. of which the police might arrive, now those ARE public property, none the less, it does not LOOK good in the dark. Just saying fella's....
 

Tpmetal said:
It's weird the law specifically states churches.....
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Yes, that is strange. Because churches are open to the public. Heck, they WELCOME YOU WITH OPEN ARMS if you go there on Sunday to worship. Come one, come all. Same for private shopping centers: They WELCOME YOU WITH OPEN ARMS (who could argue with more customers ?) .

Hence this seems to be one of those vague catch-all laws, that's brought out to "fit a variety of circumstances" that may arise. Kind of like laws that forbid "annoyances", or "blocking sidewalks", or "loud noises". They are written vague enough to be pulled out of a hat and applied for various contingencies that might arise.

In this life : You can NEVER 100% guarantee that everyone will roll out red carpets for you @ everything you want to do. You *might* get flipped off by someone who doesn't like your lane change (so do you cease driving forever more thereafter?). You *might* get pulled over and roughed up by an overzealous cop for nothing but a tail-light out, etc...
 

dustytrails123 said:
Schools and church's are private property?
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Of course they are, schools are owned by the local school boards, churches are owned by the church, if they were not private then what stops someone from walking in a school classroom and decide they are going to teach a class on basket weaving 101, if churches are not private what stops someone from holding a kegger party on Saturday night.

Our military is funded by our taxes, try walking on a military base with out permission and see what happens. The White House is public property but try walking into the White House grounds with out permission and see what happens. If parks are public they why do they close?
 

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sprailroad said:
Again, the key I think here is "Night time". It's kind of like night time= hiding=suspicious activity. ....
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Last I checked: Churches have activities at nights too. Evening meetings, etc...

As for "suspicious activities", ok, fine: I'll be the first to admit that md'ing is "suspicious". It has "connotations". (you might be about to leave a mark, etc...). As for "hiding" = "suspicious", etc.... : MD'ing is a little like nose-picking: Not necessarily illegal, but ........ sheesk, ... don't we ALL sort of use discreet timing so as not to offend the squeemish ? Ok, so too is md'ing. Get over it. If you're waiting for pats-on-the-back, and want to wear neon yellow waltzing over beach-blankets, then I fear you have chosen the wrong hobby.
 

Treasure_Hunter said:
Of course they are, schools are owned by the local school boards, ...
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Churches issues aside (they are obviously private property) : In-so-far as schools being "private", via a bunch of semantics and title-maneuvers . Ok, I agree. So too is it with variations of public land where the property is "leased" for $1 per year to private associations (fairgrounds, rodeo grounds). Sure, someone can try to claim "this is public". And , like you observe: Some technical real estate lineage can make it "private".

BUT IN THE PRACTICAL REAL WORLD SENSE : do people still shoot hoops ? Do people still jog the track ? Of course. Thus the issue is not "public" vs "private". The issue is: "intended activity" and "does anyone really care?" issues.

How do we classify md'ing ? Innocuous like jogging ? ok, fine. Bring it on. But if we classify it as dangerous and harmful, then ........ sure ....... don't do it. I happen to classify md'ing as safe, benign, harmless, nutritious, etc...
 

Tom_in_CA said:
Churches issues aside (they are obviously private property) : In-so-far as schools being "private", via a bunch of semantics and title-maneuvers . Ok, I agree. So too is it with variations of public land where the property is "leased" for $1 per year to private associations (fairgrounds, rodeo grounds). Sure, someone can try to claim "this is public". And , like you observe: Some technical real estate lineage can make it "private".

BUT IN THE PRACTICAL REAL WORLD SENSE : do people still shoot hoops ? Do people still jog the track ? Of course. Thus the issue is not "public" vs "private". The issue is: "intended activity" and "does anyone really care?" issues.

How do we classify md'ing ? Innocuous like jogging ? ok, fine. Bring it on. But if we classify it as dangerous and harmful, then ........ sure ....... don't do it. I happen to classify md'ing as safe, benign, harmless, nutritious, etc...
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Classify it how ever you want, bottom line is private property is private property.
 

Bummer. Let that be a lesson to us. Always best to ask permission and going at night sounds like a bad idea. Cops naturally are opportunistically drawn to vehicles and people out of place at night. Last time I hunted a church they had dug up the front for renovations. I put on my hard hat and vest and slipped onsite right as the workers drove off. Not the most polite move and I don't recommend it but i just blended in. The corner boys were a little nervous I was a cop or something but I got it done.
 

I make it simple, get permission from churches or off to jail you may go, and when you died, you will go to Hell. Good luck and good hunting.
 

Tom_in_CA said:
Last I checked: Churches have activities at nights too. Evening meetings, etc...

As for "suspicious activities", ok, fine: I'll be the first to admit that md'ing is "suspicious". It has "connotations". (you might be about to leave a mark, etc...). As for "hiding" = "suspicious", etc.... : MD'ing is a little like nose-picking: Not necessarily illegal, but ........ sheesk, ... don't we ALL sort of use discreet timing so as not to offend the squeemish ? Ok, so too is md'ing. Get over it. If you're waiting for pats-on-the-back, and want to wear neon yellow waltzing over beach-blankets, then I fear you have chosen the wrong hobby.
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Your missing my point Tom, my comment was not about detecting itself, it was the "night time", people in general do not really see you detecting in the dark, they only see "you" in the dark. For instance, I used the parking strip example, at night in the dark, if you looked out a window and seen somebody kneeling down near your car, would your first thought be, "it's just somebody metal detecting". Again, the whole point was "night time". There are some places, in both public and/or residential that "common sense" comes into play. Again, not an attack on detecting, and we know how you enjoy detecting in the dark, "so quite, so serene", it was not an attack on you. No need for you to counter-attack. To borrow from your own post, "Get over it". It was not about you.
 

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sprailroad said:
.... it was not an attack on you. No need for you to counter-attack......
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I understand. Nor did I mean to appear to be attacking you either. My apologies. This thread got off track. I got a little carried away.
 

Tom_in_CA said:
I understand. Nor did I mean to appear to be attacking you either. My apologies. This thread got off track. I got a little carried away.
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Oh gee whiz Tom, I still like ya, and still agree with you MOST of the time.
 

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