✅ SOLVED Any Ideas what this Brass item is??

[BuckleBoy]

Hello All,

I found two of these items--flat brass items with two holes for rivets/nails in them. They looked at the time like they would have some sort of stamping on them, but both are plain... The older one has some design and it is cast. It also has a part of an old nail still in one hole of it...








I found this one online that was stamped "CS" from a CW camp--the finder at the site says that it's a "watch fob" but it obviously isn't...and it's the same dimensions as the plain oval one I found (pictured above). I'm not suggesting that these are war related, but I'm just wondering what the heck they are...



http://www.midtenrelics.com/buttons.htm (See #2, second photo...)


Regards,


Buckleboy

 

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[BuckleBoy]

so a universial standard for what?

Danged good question!

 

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[carpetbagger]

Bump 8)
Here's mine, kinda looks the same.
HH
Jeff K

 

[GpSnoopy]

I'm wondering if these might be plain furniture or bed bolt hole covers. When trying to confirm, I could only find the more decorative single screw covers, as pictured below. But I did find this quotation an a restoration site.

Install bed bolt covers to hide the hole the bolt sits in. Since beds will need tightening periodically, it is most practical to select a cover that is held on by a single screw. Then, the cover can be swung up and the bolt exposed for tightening. Bed bolt covers come in a variety of styles and finishes, from quite decorative to very simple. Larger covers, held on by 2 screws, are most often used on antique beds, where the hole is large and there are marks to cover.

 

[BuckleBoy]

woodspiritcarver--first off, Thank You for posting another one of these. Would you measure yours from the center of one hole to the center of the other, in millimeters?

(Here's a website that's basically a ruler on the page. The site measures your screen size and the correct sized ruler appears. )

http://iruler.net/


GpSnoopy--you may be onto something. I still can't explain the "C.S." one I posted--but it may be red herring, since I have been unable to locate any similarly marked pieces in either relic guides, forums, or online dealers. These unmarked decorative items however, seem to be everywhere.

Usually a bolt hole is larger, if I'm not mistaken--so the brass piece has to have more of a bulge in its center. The oblong pieces in the post above I believe are too narrow to cover up a bolt so that it could not be seen. The oval pieces could. We may be dealing with two different functions for two different pieces here, and I'm foolishly lumping them together as "brass thingys with two holes."

#165 in SC Digger's photo album:

http://imageevent.com/scdigger/relics?n=0&z=2&c=4&x=1&m=51&w=0&p=0

This one has been turned into a "whizzer." So again, these items are Late Colonial and Federal Period.

 

[woody50]

I really just believe these are just normal metal labels, used for identification of something. It could be the contents of a drawer, a manufactures mark for furniture, a brand name; actually anything you want. You just could also buy them blank and with a letter/number die pound into them whatevery you want. I have seen many of them also here in Europe in old hardware stores, put on the wooden drawers to describe the contents. They could be screwed or nailed onto wood, or riveted onto metal. Nothing much special about them really, I have found many in all the years. CV could mean anything, you just take a blank label, and pound what ever letter you want in it. If people wanted the screw to be flat and even with the label they would countersink them. And they could be just as fancy or elaborate as you want, just cost more that's all. Could also be used on horse leather also...

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Bump 8)
Here's mine, kinda looks the same.
HH
Jeff K

Yours looks like a driveshaft u-joint bracket that has been flattened out. ...unless its brass then forget what I just said.

 

[BuckleBoy]

I really just believe these are just normal metal labels, used for identification of something. It could be the contents of a drawer, a manufactures mark for furniture, a brand name; actually anything you want. You just could also buy them blank and with a letter/number die pound into them whatevery you want. I have seen many of them also here in Europe in old hardware stores, put on the wooden drawers to describe the contents. They could be screwed or nailed onto wood, or riveted onto metal. Nothing much special about them really, I have found many in all the years. CV could mean anything, you just take a blank label, and pound what ever letter you want in it. If people wanted the screw to be flat and even with the label they would countersink them. And they could be just as fancy or elaborate as you want, just cost more that's all. Could also be used on horse leather also...

There's a lot of truth to this, woody. I'm certain that these pieces aren't much that's special. But I would love to know what they were.


My argument against them being an ID card or identification label--is that other than the one example I found that is American Civil War related, None of the others have anything stamped into them besides decorative patterns.


If these pieces were used for identification, then shouldn't someone should be finding one that's stamped with Letters?




Best Wishes,



Buckleboy


P.S.--what is that in your new Avatar photo?

 

[scratcher]

I think these were not attached to wood or metal. If they were, I believe someone would have found one attached or at least a picture of one. As common as they seem to be, it sure seems like someone should have made an ID by finding one still attached. It also doesn't make sense that the countersink is on the OPPOSITE SIDE of the decoration. It seems to me they were probably attached to cloth or leather with some kind of rivet or something else that didn't hold up well. I too believe that the one I found is federal period or quite a bit older based on the location and the other things at this site. Nothing else but really old stuff here. Out in the middle of nowhere, no homesite. The only thing that makes me wonder is what looks like a nail in BB's sample early in the thread .... Weren't most things attached to leather this long ago designed with foldover prongs? Were there round nails then? Were there rivets? Just food for thought. I wish someone would take their sample, pound it into something, take a picture and call it solved so I could quit thinking about it

 

[woody50]

I really just believe these are just normal metal labels, used for identification of something. It could be the contents of a drawer, a manufactures mark for furniture, a brand name; actually anything you want. You just could also buy them blank and with a letter/number die pound into them whatevery you want. I have seen many of them also here in Europe in old hardware stores, put on the wooden drawers to describe the contents. They could be screwed or nailed onto wood, or riveted onto metal. Nothing much special about them really, I have found many in all the years. CV could mean anything, you just take a blank label, and pound what ever letter you want in it. If people wanted the screw to be flat and even with the label they would countersink them. And they could be just as fancy or elaborate as you want, just cost more that's all. Could also be used on horse leather also...

There's a lot of truth to this, woody. I'm certain that these pieces aren't much that's special. But I would love to know what they were.
My argument against them being an ID card or identification label--is that other than the one example I found that is American Civil War related, None of the others have anything stamped into them besides decorative patterns.
If these pieces were used for identification, then shouldn't someone should be finding one that's stamped with Letters?
Best Wishes,
Buckleboy
P.S.--what is that in your new Avatar photo?

Hi Buckleboy, of course there are a lot also just for decoration, I have found also the majority blank. Will see if I can find something more about the.

About the Avatar.... I am hoping that someone can guess what it is... If not I will put it in "What is it" and let everyone guess?
I do know what it is, have even seen it in action. Also I have found quite a few.....

 

[CRUSADER]

I really just believe these are just normal metal labels, used for identification of something. It could be the contents of a drawer, a manufactures mark for furniture, a brand name; actually anything you want. You just could also buy them blank and with a letter/number die pound into them whatevery you want. I have seen many of them also here in Europe in old hardware stores, put on the wooden drawers to describe the contents. They could be screwed or nailed onto wood, or riveted onto metal. Nothing much special about them really, I have found many in all the years. CV could mean anything, you just take a blank label, and pound what ever letter you want in it. If people wanted the screw to be flat and even with the label they would countersink them. And they could be just as fancy or elaborate as you want, just cost more that's all. Could also be used on horse leather also...

There's a lot of truth to this, woody. I'm certain that these pieces aren't much that's special. But I would love to know what they were.
My argument against them being an ID card or identification label--is that other than the one example I found that is American Civil War related, None of the others have anything stamped into them besides decorative patterns.
If these pieces were used for identification, then shouldn't someone should be finding one that's stamped with Letters?
Best Wishes,
Buckleboy
P.S.--what is that in your new Avatar photo?

Hi Buckleboy, of course there are a lot also just for decoration, I have found also the majority blank. Will see if I can find something more about the.

About the Avatar.... I am hoping that someone can guess what it is... If not I will put it in "What is it" and let everyone guess?
I do know what it is, have even seen it in action. Also I have found quite a few.....

Look like oxen shoes to me

 

[BuckleBoy]

I think these were not attached to wood or metal. If they were, I believe someone would have found one attached or at least a picture of one. As common as they seem to be, it sure seems like someone should have made an ID by finding one still attached. It also doesn't make sense that the countersink is on the OPPOSITE SIDE of the decoration. It seems to me they were probably attached to cloth or leather with some kind of rivet or something else that didn't hold up well. I too believe that the one I found is federal period or quite a bit older based on the location and the other things at this site. Nothing else but really old stuff here. Out in the middle of nowhere, no homesite. The only thing that makes me wonder is what looks like a nail in BB's sample early in the thread .... Weren't most things attached to leather this long ago designed with foldover prongs? Were there round nails then? Were there rivets? Just food for thought. I wish someone would take their sample, pound it into something, take a picture and call it solved so I could quit thinking about it

I agree with you. Eventually one with metal or wood attached should turn up, if that's what they were attached to. And I also agree that it's strange to countersink the holes on the other side from the decorative side. I wonder if these were attached to a leather harness or something similar. Then the countersinking of the holes on the non-decorated side would make sense--to avoid chafing/rubbing/cutting an animal during the use of the harness.

The only example I've found anywhere with a nail or even traces of rust was the first one I posted at the top of the thread. So that may be misleading too--since the example may have been nailed to a doorframe for later use, or used for some other function than the original function of the piece.

The fact that some of these have misshapen holes due to wear, and even outright breakage at the hole may suggest that these pieces had more rugged purposes than furniture decorations, drawer pulls, or bolt hole covers.


Woody, thank you for your help on this one. Anything you can dig up on these pieces I'd love to hear it. It seems that they are more common overseas than they are here--due to your older occupation no doubt. Someone, somewhere knows what these things are.

Meanwhile, I will do my best to figure out what is on your avatar. What size are they?



Best Wishes,



Buckleboy

 

[woody50]

P.S.--what is that in your new Avatar photo?

About the Avatar.... I am hoping that someone can guess what it is... If not I will put it in "What is it" and
let everyone guess? I do know what it is, have even seen it in action. Also I have found quite a few.....

Since I read the instructions in What Is It ("Please Read Before Posting Items in What Is It?", Do not deliberately
withhold any information just to "have fun" seeing if members can guess correctly.) So I see I can't put it or
answer your questions there, it's not allowed.

Cru's guess is "Look like oxen shoes to me".
BuckleBoy : Meanwhile, I will do my best to figure out what is on your avatar. What size are they?

The three I have on display are 3 1/2" x 1 1/2", 4 1/2" x 2", and 4 3/4" x 2".
Many people have asked "What are they" when they see them in my Roman/Byzantine Cabinet. They have never guessed
right. And then we have Crusader.... I really don't know what is wrong with the guy, the answer seems to pop right
out of his head, and so easy.

Yea Cru, you hit the head of the nail, exactly. These we dug up in Serbia, many of them. About as much as you find a
ball of tinfoil or a tin can top in normal hunting. I sort of like them, and especially after I saw cows being shoed once.

Because Serbia (in any case the part of it where I search) is very mountainous and rocky, cows have shoes. There are few
horses there, or at least I have never seen a horse, but plenty of cows. If they didn't have shoes on their feet would get all
cut up.

Here are 2 photos which shows the 4 sided nails they use to mount them, I have also never seen oxen there (but I am sure
they must be somewhere), so I call them "Cow Shoes".....

Here are a couple of photo of "Cow Shoeing"

The equipment, the cow shoes are in the center of the photo

The patient

Oops, topsy-turvy!
Funny is that the animals don't struggle at all, just lay down. I guess they
know what's going to happen.

Hammering it down

Hope you enjoyed these photos!

 

[BuckleBoy]

That's great, Woody! Seems like Serbia would be a wonderful place to hunt. Lots of interesting history there--including Cow Shoes LOL.

I would ask about your new avatar...But, I want to steer this thread back on track now.



Best Wishes,




Buckles

 

[scratcher]

It's nice getting something solved on this thread! Now will those of you wise in the ways of shoeing please direct your attention to my new "strange shoe" What is it? thread...

 

[woody50]

It's nice getting something solved on this thread! Now will those of you wise in the ways of shoeing please direct your attention to my new "strange shoe" What is it? thread...

You are of course right Scratcher.... Didn't want to answer that here but where then, I didn't know.

 

[scratcher]

Hey Woody, I'm just glad to get another positive idea on some of my stuff! Thanks.

 

[RPG]

I think I got this one. Look at the link and scroll down to the engraved rifle medallion. Also one in rifle parts photo a.
Probably not their only use but this is one example.
Randy

http://www.korns.org/lepley_gunsmithing/Lepley_gunsmithing_index.html

 

[scratcher]

Hello Everyone,

I have an idea on the items in question. The piece I have inserted in the 2-holed mystery piece was found at the same site as my sample and seems to fit it very well. I had this idea earlier but none of the pronged pieces that I had previously recovered matched it. I had posted them earlier here and I don't believe anyone came up with a photo of them in use either. If these pieces do go together it would be likely that they were used to corral the end of a belt or leather strap after passing through a buckle. This 'washer' would keep the leather from bunching up after the prongs were folded over and enable easier insertion. Has anyone else found any of the pronged pieces that would match? If not then this may just be a coincidence of course. But this type of use makes more sense to me than their being screwed or nailed into something.

Let me know what you think.

Scratcher

 

[CRUSADER]

Hello Everyone,

I have an idea on the items in question. The piece I have inserted in the 2-holed mystery piece was found at the same site as my sample and seems to fit it very well. I had this idea earlier but none of the pronged pieces that I had previously recovered matched it. I had posted them earlier here and I don't believe anyone came up with a photo of them in use either. If these pieces do go together it would be likely that they were used to corral the end of a belt or leather strap after passing through a buckle. This 'washer' would keep the leather from bunching up after the prongs were folded over and enable easier insertion. Has anyone else found any of the pronged pieces that would match? If not then this may just be a coincidence of course. But this type of use makes more sense to me than their being screwed or nailed into something.

Let me know what you think.

Scratcher

You maybe on to something. I too have found & chucked many of those pronged pieces. Although they were broken lower down & didn't have as longer nail pieces. Next time I find one & will keep it & see if they fit.

So they could easily be horse tack related.

 

[scratcher]

I forgot to mention that my piece is a little bit longer than the other posted sizes. It does seem that they should be of different sizes and shapes if this is what they were used for. They could also be used on belts? Did they use waist belts from the time period in question?