Ancient Chinese explorers landed in America

[T.C.]

"The biggest question I have though, is why have we not found the burial of a Viking explorer in middle America, or a Chinese explorer in Colorado? They had to have had people die and they had to bury them somewhere. Of course, it's a big country and it would be an incredible stroke of luck to stumble onto a lone burial of a European explorer who was here before Columbus. And maybe they have been discovered, but mainstream archaeologists wrote them off as Native American?"

In response to this one part of your thread, RGINN. It's called "NAGPRA". For a fine example of "quick, bury them before scientists find out we weren't the first ones here," Kennewick Man!! In conclusion, all things ARE possible!! If you have the top spot of being labeled Native Americans, you sure as hell don't want to give up all the "goodies" that go with it!!

 

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[T.C.]

The Kon-Tiki expedition is a fine example of what you are saying.

Tom,
Do a little research on the "Mound-builders" and how the Smithsonian Institute went on a rampage opening up every mound (including in my province) during the late 1800's and buried all evidence in their vaults with no information leaking out since. There were actually newspapers reporting 8 foot skeletons being found throughout the continent and the Smithies were in there covering it up and ending any discussion about it.
You need to get with the times as the term "conspiracy theorists" doesn't hold the same connotation anymore. Not since a lot of conspiracy theories from decades ago have now materialized!
It's called truth-seeking. I can prove endlessly that archaeology covered up a lot of evidence a century ago to protect the narrow-minded views of the time.
I agree with you in regards with having some skepticism and some things can be dismissed as coincidence.
There's a difference with being open-minded and being an airy fairy flake that lives in a fantasy world.
The subject here is not that hard to believe. No one said that there's a piece of chocolate cake floating in the astral belt right now.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... A certain religion halted science from advancing in Europe for at least a millennium, .....

Uh,,, if that "certain religion" was sseeooo repressive in stopping advances in science, then why was Europe the most civilized and advanced, overall, during these periods ? And continents who didn't have this "repressive religion to stop them", (north america indians, for instance), still living in practically the stone age ? Certainly without that repressive belief system, heck, they should have been on the moon by then, eh ?

And as for the notion of the "evil Europeans" conquering the indians, are you subscribing to the "enslavement" "torture", "genocide" notions ?

 

[kayakpat]

they are conspiring

Well, I was feelin' sad and kind of blue
I didn't know what I was gonna do
They were comin' around
They was in the air, they were on the ground
They were all over

And started looking on the sidewalk
'Neath the rose bush

I got up in the mornin' and looked under my bed
Looked behind the kitchen, behind the door
Even tore loose the kitchen floor, couldn't find any

I looked beneath the sofa, beneath the chair
Looking for them everywhere
I looked way up my chimney hole
Even looked deep inside my toilet bowl
They got away

I heard some footsteps by the front porch door
So I grabbed my shotgun from the floor
I snuck around the house with a huff and hiss and
"Hands up, " it was a mail man
He punched me out

Well, I quit my job so I could work alone
I got a magnifying glass like Sherlock Holmes
Followed some clues from my detective bag
And discovered they was red stripes on the American flag
Did you know about Betsy Ross

Well, I was sittin' home alone and I started to sweat
I figured they was in my television set
I peeked behind the picture frame
And got a shock from my feet that hit my brain
They did it, no one's on the hootin' nanny

Well, I finally started thinkin' straight
When I run outta things to investigate
I couldn't imagine doin' anything else
So now I'm at home investigatin' myself
Hope, I don't find out too much, good God

Adapted from bd

 

[timemachine]

Fascinating new evidence has come to light that could change the history books drastically!

New Evidence Ancient Chinese Explorers Landed in America Excites Experts

If you find this interesting, makes sure to check out the other links provided in the article.
Cheers,
Dave.

Years ago, I read about ancient buried wagon wheels and other non-modern artifacts which were definitely of Chinese make and had been found along Western Washington's coastal areas. I'm of the opinion it would have been very plausible that Chinese explorations and even Roman or Greek made it this far. There are DNA similarities between Native Americans and certain Greeks, Chinese, and Jews. There are even language, customs, and such which are unexplained by the NA's themselves. I know we live in a touchy feely sensitive society so I preface these comments with a disclaimer...please don't be offended if my views differ from yours, as no insult is intended. However, please consider the notion that in light of new facts and evidence, this remains highly possible, though not fully explained. I understand you would desire proof of how it could be, but look how long it took for Americans to finally accept the concrete evidence that Vikings made it to at least as far as the Midwest, if not further. There are many claims that Vikings made it to Bainbridge island in Washington state, and there is a huge Scandinavian culture which celebrates it, and into Seattle. Acceptance of ideas dissimilar to your own are what encouraged explorers west and out of Europe...that and some gold! ...but think about that for a moment, do you really think everyone just sat around Europe since the dawn of man, and said, nope, we can't go across the water, we can only sail the shoreline, lol. Just like space today... We aren't comfortable just flying in the clouds, we always want to go further and explore, much like many of you on this website...so yes, it's entirely possible, that many visitors, from different cultures, over time, "found" new land. The problem is we only have a hundred years to live and once those exploration parties were gone, they were gone. Their story would be forgotten, maybe due to a lack of written language or religious zealot naysayers, and the motherland wouldn't invest in any more noble adventures for a while, maybe because they didn't want to lose any more generals, admirals, shamans, whatever, or maybe a change in political events at home led to different priorities.... I think many peoples knew of America, but getting funded took 100s of years each time the exploration topic came up...and it would have to be by a society that could support the adventures...

Sent from my NSA monitoring device...

 

[NHBandit]

If this has anything at all to do with Scott Wolter I'm skeptical just because he's involved. I will admit to watching his show when there's nothing else on but the way he comes up with a theory and then tries to force the evidence to fit just rubs me the wrong way. And the other night when he was using long range locators to look for the Holy Grail he lost what little bit of credibility he had left in my book. I expect to see on one of his shows that the Vikings built the Empire State building... What's next, Al Capone's vault ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

If this has anything at all to do with Scott Wolter I'm skeptical just because he's involved. I will admit to watching his show when there's nothing else on but the way he comes up with a theory and then tries to force the evidence to fit just rubs me the wrong way. And the other night when he was using long range locators to look for the Holy Grail he lost what little bit of credibility he had left in my book. I expect to see on one of his shows that the Vikings built the Empire State building... What's next, Al Capone's vault ?

Tell me you're not serious ?? I thought he was a joke before that, but .... now there's no doubt.

 

[Muddyhandz]

PhD's were hard to come by in the 1800's and if you had one, you would qualify to be able to grab a shovel and start your own archaeological dig.
Glorified pot hunters they were, with very little practice in the archaeological method.
Imagine that some PhD put out his theory and any opposing evidence would be extinguished by the hierarchy of the institution to maintain his credibility and of course.....funding.
Stone age Indians? You wouldn't think that if you knew something about the Mound-builders. Archies were going on about the "Nomadic Plains Indians" not being civilized enough to farm.
Yet, all the early fur traders out here would go to the Mandans as they had quite the variety of seeds to be traded for, at their permanent village site.
It was thanks to the Mandan that the Europeans even had gardens. But they acted as though they introduced agriculture to the Natives.
Since then, bone farming implements have been excavated pertaining to other "nomadic" Native bands and all the history books were changed.
It still blows my mind that you could find a copper spear here in N.A. that could easily predate any metal work from the "civilized" nations.
Petroforms out here are still a mystery to the world and the people who built them had scrolls and a secret society very much like the Masonic order.
Some mounds opened in the 1800's had copper adornment (from Great lakes copper mines) that resembled that which could be attributed to the Celtic people.
Not even the tip of the iceberg.......

 

[Marmentman]

Well tom that is true but I don't need to show the evidence that is all around history and evidence point towards them being here, by their own accounts and by artifacts here and they didn't just wash across the ocean and climb 12000 ft mountains. See ing is believing and historical accounts back it up you just got to know where to look.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.....It was thanks to the Mandan that the Europeans even had gardens. But they acted as though they introduced agriculture to the Natives.
Since then, bone farming implements have been excavated pertaining to other "nomadic" Native bands and all the history books were changed.
It still blows my mind that you could find a copper spear here in N.A. that could easily predate any metal work from the "civilized" nations.......

Muddy, When I said "stone age", you go on to find examples of some various feats done by various indians. ok, sure. Sure, stone-age primitive folks can come up with some pretty inengious things, build some nifty shelters, etc....

But let's cut to the chase here: ALL IN ALL, when comparing those Europeans arriving here in North America versus the indians they met here ....... which was more advanced, technologically speaking ? Think real hard ......: The ones who had been "repressed via their religion which forbade technological explorations/inventions, etc..." or the one here in north america, with no notion whatsoever of this repressive stiffling religion?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hey guys, I know a guy who ....... no kidding ... found a Roman coin, dated to around the time of Christ, in an old town demolition site in Monterey, CA. Ok, so let me guess: This means the Romans were here first, right ?

 

[coinman123]

I believe that they could have came here before Columbus, the only thing that concerns me is that that writing look a little too fresh and new, I would expect it to be very weathed by now, could it be some kind of hoax done as joke 30 years ago?

 

[T.C.]

There is a place just about north-east of Capt. Jack's Stronghold called "Petroglyph Point." If you ever have a chance to see it, please do!! It is said, "the old ones (Modocs) don't even know who put them (petroglyphs) there.

PhD's were hard to come by in the 1800's and if you had one, you would qualify to be able to grab a shovel and start your own archaeological dig.
Glorified pot hunters they were, with very little practice in the archaeological method.
Imagine that some PhD put out his theory and any opposing evidence would be extinguished by the hierarchy of the institution to maintain his credibility and of course.....funding.
Stone age Indians? You wouldn't think that if you knew something about the Mound-builders. Archies were going on about the "Nomadic Plains Indians" not being civilized enough to farm.
Yet, all the early fur traders out here would go to the Mandans as they had quite the variety of seeds to be traded for, at their permanent village site.
It was thanks to the Mandan that the Europeans even had gardens. But they acted as though they introduced agriculture to the Natives.
Since then, bone farming implements have been excavated pertaining to other "nomadic" Native bands and all the history books were changed.
It still blows my mind that you could find a copper spear here in N.A. that could easily predate any metal work from the "civilized" nations.
Petroforms out here are still a mystery to the world and the people who built them had scrolls and a secret society very much like the Masonic order.
Some mounds opened in the 1800's had copper adornment (from Great lakes copper mines) that resembled that which could be attributed to the Celtic people.
Not even the tip of the iceberg.......

 

[T.C.]

Have you ever heard of the Dark Ages?? A lot of information was lost due to religious zealots!!

Uh,,, if that "certain religion" was sseeooo repressive in stopping advances in science, then why was Europe the most civilized and advanced, overall, during these periods ? And continents who didn't have this "repressive religion to stop them", (north america indians, for instance), still living in practically the stone age ? Certainly without that repressive belief system, heck, they should have been on the moon by then, eh ?

And as for the notion of the "evil Europeans" conquering the indians, are you subscribing to the "enslavement" "torture", "genocide" notions ?

 

[T.C.]

"Tom says" But let's cut to the chase here: ALL IN ALL, when comparing those Europeans arriving here in North America versus the indians they met here ....... which was more advanced, technologically speaking ? Think real hard ......: The ones who had been "repressed via their religion which forbade technological explorations/inventions, etc..." or the one here in north america, with no notion whatsoever of this repressive stiffling religion?

Chill out Tom....people have been in and out of this great country called America for thousands of years. It all boils down to....whomever is the toughest, controls the turf. I sure as hell don't want to come back 500 years from now to see who is "cock of the walk."

 

[T.C.]

Stike three...yer outta der!!

Hey guys, I know a guy who ....... no kidding ... found a Roman coin, dated to around the time of Christ, in an old town demolition site in Monterey, CA. Ok, so let me guess: This means the Romans were here first, right ?

 

[Dave Rishar]

Years ago, I read about ancient buried wagon wheels and other non-modern artifacts which were definitely of Chinese make and had been found along Western Washington's coastal areas.

In one of the local history books that I've read, there was an anecdote about an early settler up by Neah Bay unearthing four skeletons; one of them supposedly had a rusted-up sword with it that was inscribed with characters that the settler didn't recognize, although they were thought to be asian in nature. Today, nobody knows where the sword is, or the skeletons, or any other significant evidence, and that's the problem: we're free to believe whatever we like based on whatever we want, but we shouldn't expect a rational person to base those beliefs merely on stories. Material evidence can be misinterpreted (particularly if evaluated outside of the context in which it was recovered), but it cannot by itself be wrong. Stories can be (and sometimes are) wrong.

The Iclanders wrote about traveling to the New World and few outside of Iceland believed this; they were only stories, after all. Then someone dug up a settlement - our material evidence. Now there's nothing left to argue about and it's accepted, even if a surprising number of people never heard about it. That's how history is written.

I'm of the opinion it would have been very plausible that Chinese explorations and even Roman or Greek made it this far.

Possible, yes. Plausible? I'm not entirely convinced. The Chinese could have done it before the Europeans and Americans started showing up, but only with some luck. I don't think that the Greeks or Romans would have managed it. Going back to material evidence, if any of these people made that trip, they probably never made it home, as all of them were very good about writing things down.

There are DNA similarities between Native Americans and certain Greeks, Chinese, and Jews. There are even language, customs, and such which are unexplained by the NA's themselves.

Care to expand upon this?

I understand you would desire proof of how it could be, but look how long it took for Americans to finally accept the concrete evidence that Vikings made it to at least as far as the Midwest, if not further.

If we're talking about rational Americans, they (we) still haven't accepted concrete evidence that the Vikings made it to the Midwest, as none exists.

There are many claims that Vikings made it to Bainbridge island in Washington state, and there is a huge Scandinavian culture which celebrates it, and into Seattle.

Hooooo boy...well, no, I don't think anyone around here seriously believes that Norse seafarers made it to Bainbridge Island, or Poulsbo, or Kingston, or any of Kitsap County - not before about 1850, anyway. Their descendants constitute that huge Scandinavian culture that celebrates Viking Days in Poulsbo every summer, but trust a local when I say that it's just a term with Scandinavian connotations - marketing, sort of. Seattle has even less of it, but Seattle wasn't settled primarily by Scandinavians either. Northern Kitsap, and particularly Poulsbo, were.

Acceptance of ideas dissimilar to your own are what encouraged explorers west and out of Europe...that and some gold!

Incorrect. The Norsemen who originally settled Iceland and went on to do most or all of the translatlantic exploration during the Medieval period did so because their king, Harald I, pissed them off with his dissimilar ideas, so they had to leave Norway. They certainly did not go to Iceland looking for gold. It was a lack of acceptance that drove them out of their homes...at least, that's how the stories go, but stories can be wrong. Another theory might have been a lack of farmland in Norway, but some of the early settlers were wealthy and would have already had farms, so I tend to stick with the sagas on this one - they didn't like Harald and he didn't like them, so they left.

I think many peoples knew of America, but getting funded took 100s of years each time the exploration topic came up...and it would have to be by a society that could support the adventures...

If the Icelanders could afford to do it, anyone could afford to do it. Granted, they had a bit of a head start when compared with most other cultures of the time period.

 

[Dave Rishar]

Hey guys, I know a guy who ....... no kidding ... found a Roman coin, dated to around the time of Christ, in an old town demolition site in Monterey, CA. Ok, so let me guess: This means the Romans were here first, right ?

I've been kicking around the idea of salting a local park with Roman grots for months now. I still may do this. I'm envisioning several different scenarios playing out and honestly, they all put a smile on my face.

 

[releventchair]

Muddy, When I said "stone age", you go on to find examples of some various feats done by various indians. ok, sure. Sure, stone-age primitive folks can come up with some pretty inengious things, build some nifty shelters, etc....

But let's cut to the chase here: ALL IN ALL, when comparing those Europeans arriving here in North America versus the indians they met here ....... which was more advanced, technologically speaking ? Think real hard ......: The ones who had been "repressed via their religion which forbade technological explorations/inventions, etc..." or the one here in north america, with no notion whatsoever of this repressive stiffling religion?

Not sure if technology the best comparison for me, but who followed who's established trade and travel routes?
How many towns today are in a locale used previously and why?
Heck, around here many of the roads follow the old paths. Despite the change in environment created by logging and progression following.
The water routes are prized homesites though trespass gets to be an issue when riff raff wants to walk the edges of course.. The summer beach locales are used in the summer with a retreat to winter valleys same as the natives used them.
Have you tried your hand at selecting raw material and tempering material for making pottery?Then shaped it, followed by successfully hardening it then cook with it?
How about flint knapping? Artifacts show more than a crude attempt at a functional tool.
Wood,metals,bone,a variety of stone CRAFTED beyond utilitarian design that few store supplied folks can create today.
The time to have to craft on any scale, even if by guilds can only be a result of having food and not warring.
No broad spectrum of only one religion existed coast to coast, as far as documented, but many existed.
Some followed a progression of time, from the beginning to the present.


Did those early colonists turn down a chance to survive in Jamestowne by sticking to a repressive history, no.
They were bailed out. Repression had no factor...until 1622. After which religion took a back seat to deliberate extermination.
The focus was not, or has it ever been on the natives technological inventiveness if left to themselves where they had lived for eons.
There is no comparison other than opposites in who suppressed whom. Dead is quite suppressed. Who was suppressed; and why was that again?
Suppression was and is needed with our religion of money and consumption. From air to water,earth wind;what has technology not fouled?
We build mounds. Not of earth but the waste of a consumptive technology that has defiled the resources as quickly as we could.
Buy water. Buy food. Buy everything. Then throw it's waste stream somewhere besides where you are.
Be careful not to drink,eat,or breath what others have not deemed safe because there are yucky side effects to what has been done.
But we are the advanced conquerors.

 

[Muddyhandz]

Tom,
I'm not sure why you're comparing Europeans to N.A. Natives in regards to technology, advancement, etc. Nowhere did I make that comparison. I was talking about the ancient Chinese.
I am usually more respectful of religion, I only said what I said in regards to your post #19 in which I recommend you reread what you say there, to better understand my statement.
As far as your stone age comment, it would be my dream to leave all this useless garbage behind (technology) that I work as a slave to pay for and live like the Natives once did!
No, Europeans weren't totally in the dust. The monarchy would commission scientists, magicians, inventors, etc. but had to fight the church tooth and nail to do so........
"The world is round...... Blasphemy! BURN HIM AT THE STAKE!"