Agreement between Jacob Waltz and Andrew Starar (8/8/1878) - what was it all about?

[Cubfan64]

CW,

I couldn't get the 1st or 3rd link to work but the second one got me to where I needed to go.

Good Work, Thanks!

I'm not sure Andrew and Norman were partners as Norman had received a Military Bounty Warrant for fighting in the Mexican War that allowed him to obtain a tract of public land (in any state) for free. He had exercised this right and he was now passing the land on to Andrew. I don't see any mention of payment in this record but there was probably some compensation as Andrew now has a title to the land described.

I haven't digested everything yet but one small item that caught my attention was the middle initial of Andrew. A German genealogist has tentatively identifed the parents and siblings of the Starar Brother but his research stops when that family left Germany in 1829. I have been trying to pick it up in the US but so far no luck. The name he has for Andrew was Andreas Phillip Stoehrer (Starrer - One English Spelling). This document does help me believe I'm at least on the right track.

Thanks Again,

Garry

Garry - I came across that blm record awhile back as well, but never caught the middle initial P for Andrew!! That does make me feel a little better about the Stoehrer connection and research done by the Germans.

 

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[Ellie Baba]

Cubfan64 stated;

If you're trying to say that Waltz was a Mason and therefore the Starar's (also being Masons) felt the need to help him out, how do you wrap your head around Waltz ever having access to as much gold as he supposedly did?

IMO Jacob didn’t have as much gold as everyone thought he did. A man selling vegetables and eggs to the local markets in Phoenix was probably having difficulties just staying above water (no pun intended). Reavis had earned his living in the same way. Waltz most likely had some gold that he had worked from an earlier claim and we believe that he knew how to prospect, pan and work a vein. A couple of small nuggets from his so-called rich mine would have been far easier work than growing crops and raising chickens to produce eggs to sell at the market.

If what you say is correct, Waltz could have not only helped himself out with his gold ore wealth, he could have helped out many other of his "brothers" no? In fact, why wouldn't Waltz file a claim on his mine along with the Starar brothers or some other trusted members of the Masonic organization - surely they would have had enough influence to keep the claim from being "jumped" by anyone, and they could have used that wealth for tremendous benefit?

He was able to help Julia. We know on occasion he had access to funds to help her out. How many other people did he help? I do not know. You file a mining claim to protect your assets on and in the ground. The 1872 Mining Law was put in place to protect ones’ claim from any other claimant from taking their precious metal discoveries; otherwise someone else could file a claim on your workings if you had not filed a claim and you would lose any and all rights to the mine/workings. Prior to the Law of 1872, mining claims had to filed in the town of Mesilla, if you owned mining claims in the Territory of Arizona.

Something's missing in the idea of a Masonic connection here and I don't know what it is, but I don't think it's as simple as you've laid it out Ellie. I'm not convinced Waltz was a mason, and actually even if he was, I know nothing whatsoever about the order, but the logic and thoughts I expressed above don't seem to jive with the idea. What am I missing?

Imagine if Jacob was a part of the big picture (the secret societies). His involvement, however small was very important to the success of pulling the wool over every ones’ eyes to guarantee a safe hiding place for one of the worlds’ greatest treasures. It is hard to see the forest for the trees and that is why the deception has not been revealed. The time is coming when all will be revealed very soon. Once a difficult equation has been solved the answer will be staring back at us. Nothing will be missing and we will then recognize the simplicity hidden within the deception itself.

Sorry about the late response. I have been so busy since coming back from vacation. I hope that my response will give you some insight.

Ellie B

 

[sgtfda]

If Waltz was a Mason a free grave plot would have been provided for him in the Masonic section by the local lodge. He would not have bought one from Rhinehart. The Masonic Lodges of that period all bought and maintained a Masonic section in the local cemetery. This is no longer the case. My lodge is the oldest this side of the Allegheny's. It owns the Masonic section of the Allegheny Cemetery in the Oakland section of Pittsburgh. That fact is long forgotten by my lodge.

 

[Ellie Baba]

If Waltz was a Mason a free grave plot would have been provided for him in the Masonic section by the local lodge. He would not have bought one from Rhinehart. The Masonic Lodges of that period all bought and maintained a Masonic section in the local cemetery. This is no longer the case. My lodge is the oldest this side of the Allegheny's. It owns the Masonic section of the Allegheny Cemetery in the Oakland section of Pittsburgh. That fact is long forgotten by my lodge.

sgtfda,

Interesting that Waltz was buried in the east end of the cemetery.

HISTORY OF THE MASONIC CEMETERY AND EARLY MEMBERS OF THE LODGE at ALBION, CASSIA COUNTY, IDAHO


One had been a surgeon in the Civil War; one had worked as a cabin boy on a trans-Atlantic boat from N. Y. to Liverpool; one had met up with General George Armstrong Custer; & one had worked on the Hannibal & St. Joseph Railroad.


Dr. George Lee Lucas was most instrumental in the formation of the Masonic Lodge and after he passed away on September 3, 1885, the membership was concerned where to bury him. In continuing from last month, Bennie Chatburn writes the following:


“With heavy hearts, they buried Brother Lucas in the 'Public Plot and talk began again about a proper Masonic Cemetery. However, it wasn't until after the founding of the Oddfellow's Lodge on May 5, 1888, that talk turned to action. In the fall of that year, the Oddfellows obtained a tract of land from Mr. Cobbs, and proceded to layout their cemetery. This was a final insult to our Masonic Brothers, they could not be outdone by the Oddfellows! After a great deal of negotiation, and I suspect with some reservation, our Masonic forefathers bought half of the Oddfellow's land for their own cemetery.


"Strict rules and boundary lines were immediately established. The Oddfellows and their families were to be buried in the west half. Masons and their families were to be buried in the east half. This rule was strictly adhered to until September 27, 1922, when the I.O.O.F. Lodge surrendered their charter and their Lodge was dissolved.


“In 1897, with the permission of his son, the Lodge brothers removed Brother Lucas' body from the 'neglected City Cemetery', and gave him a proper reburial in the Masonic Cemetery, at which time they erected a simple white monument to his memory with the inscription: 'Maj. G. L. Lucas, Surgeon, 47 h 111. Inf.

Masonic history back in those days differed from Lodge to Lodge.

Thank you for your input sgtfda,

Ellie B

 

[sgtfda]

Did not the cemetery where Waltz was buried have a Masonic section? I believe I read that it did.

 

[Cubfan64]

Did not the cemetery where Waltz was buried have a Masonic section? I believe I read that it did.

It did Frank, in fact from my reading and understanding of the story, the Fraternal Orders were the ones who purchased the original property in 1884 which became the "Pioneer Cemetery" (which actually consists of a number of cemeteries). They kept one section for themselves and sold the other half or so to be used as the City Cemetery.

The remains from the first cemetery (which apparently was near the entrance to Phoenix and folks found it to be unsightly) were moved (at least most of them) to the new Cemetery in the early to mid 1880's.

Waltz died and was buried in the City Cemetery rather than the Masonic section as far as the stories go. If he was a Mason, I guess I don't know why he wouldn't have been buried in the Masonic section either unless that was reserved for the "higher up's" of the order?

 

[sgtfda]

If he was a Mason he would have received a free plot in that section. Rich or poor. All brothers are equal. There would have been a special burial ceremony. This would have been addressed before his death. It was known in the community he was near death was it not?

 

[Ellie Baba]

It did Frank, in fact from my reading and understanding of the story, the Fraternal Orders were the ones who purchased the original property in 1884 which became the "Pioneer Cemetery" (which actually consists of a number of cemeteries). They kept one section for themselves and sold the other half or so to be used as the City Cemetery.

The remains from the first cemetery (which apparently was near the entrance to Phoenix and folks found it to be unsightly) were moved (at least most of them) to the new Cemetery in the early to mid 1880's.

Waltz died and was buried in the City Cemetery rather than the Masonic section as far as the stories go. If he was a Mason, I guess I don't know why he wouldn't have been buried in the Masonic section either unless that was reserved for the "higher up's" of the order?

Cubfan64,

You and sjtfda have pointed out a clue that I have missed. I took a trip down to the City-Loosley cemetery today and visited Jacobs' grave, took a few pictures and started looking for visible references in the area. I soon realized the cemeteries are locked up tight and are currently not accessible, most likely due to a shortage of state funds. I will find a way to gain access if possible and continue with my investigation as they always leave clues in plain site when you encounter a situation as described below:

The scene at graveside is strange and abandoned; no one is buried anywhere near Jacob Waltz, he is alone and occupies the southwest corner. This anomaly looks out of place and strikes me as very unusual. I will get back with you as soon as I find an answer.

A number of years ago we drove past the cemetery and an accomplished Dutch hunter pointed out his grave. After this line of discussion I have come to realize my error involving the actual location of Jacobs' grave.

Que sera, sera

Ellie B

 

[cw0909]

Ellie Baba said
I soon realized the cemeteries are locked up tight and are currently not accessible, most likely due to a shortage of state funds. I will find a way to gain access if possible and continue with my investigation

maybe this will help you next time you go


Pioneer & Military Memorial Park, Phoenix
Those wishing to tour the cemeteries or the restored 1897 home, must make reservation with the volunteers at 602-534-1262. We thank volunteers Marge West and Diane Sumrall for their warm and enthusiastic tour.
Graveside Arizona


some more info map of grave from site

The Pioneer & Military Memorial Park at 1400 W. Jefferson, Phoenix is the resting place of pioneers 1-Governor Benjamin J. Franklin, 2-Lord Darrell Duppa, and 3-The Lost Dutchman, Jacob Waltz.
Graveside Arizona


write up on waltz from site
Graveside Arizona


img of grave,
Copyright Laws Apply COPYRIGHT Photo by Susan Riter
WALTZ, JACOB - Maricopa County, Arizona | JACOB WALTZ - Arizona Gravestone Photos
others buried there
City- Loosley Cemetery - Maricopa County, Arizona


gmap views grave
http://goo.gl/maps/TLlDi
http://goo.gl/maps/IIJuA
http://goo.gl/maps/PlTpo

 

[Ellie Baba]

cw0909,

Thank you for the information and the photograph/depiction of Jacobs' grave has a lot to say:

1. The partial "L" shaped wall is a common letter/symbol used by the Group(s). The "builders' square", longitude, latitude and look here.



2. To the right of the headstone is the symbol of a "boot" another common sign/symbol. Look for another clue in the direction that the boot points.



3. There appears to be seven (7) stones that identify the eastern border of his plot and the number 7 indicates perfection, rest and treasure. The heart can be found in the coffin (canon).

4. Jacob is buried in section seven (7) not to far from home; section 16 (1+6=7). If you were to extend Grand Ave. one and one-half miles (1 1/2 mi.) it would divide Waltzs' property in half diagonally, forming two triangles or pyramid symbols. No stone can be left not turned.

Granted, anyone could have messed with Jacobs' grave at any time. The signs are always hidden and not recognizable or understood by most people. Maps are very important and they are very often overlooked.

Puzzles take time to put together, a piece here a piece there. Back to the game.

Ellie B