Additional evidence

[Rebel - KGC]

Maj. John Ward (Rev. War) was a Road Surveyor (Rt. 29 South of Lynchburg, Va. into Campbell County), & created Ward's Ferry on the Staunton River. NO connection to the "JOB PRINT"; ONLY the "new" Masonic Lodge, that "JB" Ward was advised of... (1859).

 

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[franklin]

Giles Ward was James Beverly Ward's father so that would be the same branch that is part of the extended Risqué bloodline which includes the Hutter family.

Yes because Giles Ward married JBR's daughter. But still Giles Ward was from Connecticut and no kin to the other two branches of Wards already living in Virginia. So this Peter O. Ward Attorney at Law, who was his father and mother, were they children of James Beverly Ward or his grandchildren or great grandchildren? Yes the extended bloodline of JBR had a lot to do with the Job Print Pamphlet and the Beale Treasure but not all with the same name are kin.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, according to PV, "JB" & Harriet (Otey) had 11 kids... some died at birth or YOUNG; looking for names & dates of birth.
"Harriet would ultimately deliver ELEVEN babies, and the Wards would have TWENTY grand-children"; THE BEALE TREASURE: NEW History of a MYSTERY, p. 130. LGA! TOO many kids!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

MY "focus" is on "JB" Ward & descendants, now. Don't care about "TJB", Thomas Beale (of Fincastle, Va.; Sr. or Jr.), Beal, Beall, etc. STILL with the CONFEDERATE WAR "theory"... "something" is "breaking". It ALL started in 1862/63, with THE SECRET!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Cue in SPOOKY MUZAK... heh.

 

[ECS]

... So this Peter O. Ward Attorney at Law, who was his father and mother, were they children of James Beverly Ward or his grandchildren or great grandchildren? ...

The answer is just a phone call away.

 

[ECS]

When it comes to anything about the Beale Treasure it is hard to find. Can not locate any of James B. Ward's children or grandchildren to talk to. It seems citizens of Lynchburg, Va even the libraries and the Historic Hutter House no one even knows where the Risque Plantation stood nor have any of them even heard of the Beale Treasure. It is really odd...

Maybe as Lt Thomas Fawcett noted after interviewing Ward's grandson, "Mr Walker noted having a copy of the Beale Papers, in which he placed no credence", the citizens, libraries and Hutter House docents place "no credence" on the Beale treasure story from the 1885 job print pamphlet.

 

[franklin]

Hell I have hunted for treasure my whole life but you ask any of my kin other than a brother or two there is no such thing as a treasure. I don't base my research on what others think. I go by what I think and it works best for me. I knew my whole life from the time I was five years old that I was going to find the Lost Confederate Gold. I was double crossed and left alone by others saying they had found everything and knew where everything was but I continued my quest and six years after all the double crossing and back stabbing I found it. I may not be able to recover the treasures but I found them. I remember when I went around hunting and thinking to myself the treasure could be here or it could be there but now I know where they are located. That takes a great load off your mind when you know. Can anyone understand the feelings you have when you are searching like in the darkness and then you know where everything is and you see the LIGHT. I tell you what that is the greatest feeling you will have other than living right and going to HEAVEN. I love the quest, the search. Everyone runs a race to win but when you win it is even a greater feeling. Keep searching stay in the race.

 

[ECS]

Franklin, the Confederate treasury was known to exist, and it was known to be taken to Danville after the Fall of Richmond, and all of this has been documented from outside sources, whereas, the Beale treasure's only mention is in Ward's 1885 job pamphlet, and later The Hart Papers, with NO outside documentation.

 

[Old Silver]

The existence of the Confederate treasure was not a secret. The Beale treasure was.

 

[ECS]

"Knowledge of this affair was confined to a very limited circle-to the writer's immediate family, and to one old and valued friend"-THE BEALE PAPERS
This statement appears to refer only to the "unknown author's" family and friend, not to Robert and Sarah Morriss, or to the families of the Beale Party who would have known of the "perilous adventure" and that their family member never returned, or to Pascal and Francis Buford at whose Inn they stayed while digging the treasure vault six feet in the ground.
Many people were alleged to be involved in "this affair" for the knowledge of it to have remained a secret until Ward published the job print pamphlet.

 

[Old Silver]

ECS, argue with yourself.

 

[franklin]

"Knowledge of this affair was confined to a very limited circle-to the writer's immediate family, and to one old and valued friend"-THE BEALE PAPERS
This statement appears to refer only to the "unknown author's" family and friend, not to Robert and Sarah Morriss, or to the families of the Beale Party who would have known of the "perilous adventure" and that their family member never returned, or to Pascal and Francis Buford at whose Inn they stayed while digging the treasure vault six feet in the ground.
Many people were alleged to be involved in "this affair" for the knowledge of it to have remained a secret until Ward published the job print pamphlet.

Where did you read they dug the vault. Grant you excavation does mean that digging was performed but not necessarily at that time. The excavation could have already been there and they lined it with stones and covered it over with other stones. Nothing about digging anywhere?

Also we know the Confederate Treasure was a known treasure with facts only not exactly the facts that historians have been driving down our throats for the past 152 years. Also the treasure to Danville was not the Confederate Treasury it was funds of the Confederate Treasury. Only a rabbit for the dumb Yanks to chase. The treasures of the CSA had been put away and was still being put away after the Civil War. One million dollars in gold specie was caught in 1867 trying to leave the country. Over two years after the war ended. Also Secretary of the CSA Treasury Memminger stated in 1862 that all of the specie was hidden away in the country not in the treasury vaults of fourteen different cities not in the vault of the Richmond Mint but hidden away in the country.

As for the Mystery of the Beale Treasure we know there are no facts to verify the story other than the Job Print Pamphlet published and copyrighted in 1885. Also the Hart Papers given to the Roanoke Virginia Library in 1952 by George Hart then living in Washington, D.C. We as fellow treasure hunters and posters come on here to verify information that we find to verify the treasure or not and to talk out places to search. What we don't need is someone to keep announcing 5,000 times what we already know. We already know that is why we are searching and talking that is the only way the treasure mystery can be verified or nullified by talking and researching not saying there is no verifiable research that is a GIVEN AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT. Do you think we like reading your same old rants over and over and over. Why don't you post something that proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the Mystery is fiction and was made up and I am not talking about what other people think, I am talking about documented evidence saying that Guggenheimer sold the Job Print Pamphlet in this store, that he bought Robert Morriss' House. Or papers of Roland Buford, Clerk of the Bedford County Court, saying that he wanted James Beverly Ward to stop publishing and printing his book or all the others you claim such as Clay, Jackson or hell just anyone. You can't you need to research and find them then post what they say with documentation. That is what we are searching for also is documentation to prove or disapprove the Mystery. Come on lay the proof on us instead of the same old post 5,000 times or is it 6,000 times does not make a difference as we tire of hearing it.

 

[ECS]

ECS, argue with yourself.

Not an argument, but the point being made between the Confederate treasury and the Beale story is that with the CSA treasury, there is an evidence trail.
Now in the Beale Papers it is mentioned that 30 men left for Virginia for a "perilous adventure", hired a guide in St Louis, bought supplies in Spanish Santa Fe {what did they use for currency, did they take a lot of American money with them), bought iron cooking pots and wagons for transport, had to pay someone to cross the Mississippi with this load, traded silver (ore ?)for jewels in St Louis, and so on.
There was mention that the iron pots (30 Gal salt brine pots) were purchased at Boone's Salt Mine, Franklin ,Missouri, another contact that did not raise curiosity and speculation of purpose?

This IS a lot of contact with outside parties for no one to have noticed and mentioned, especially a tall, black eyes and hair swarthy specimen of manly beauty.
As the old saying goes, two can keep a secret if one is dead.

 

[ECS]

... I am talking about documented evidence saying that Guggenheimer sold the Job Print Pamphlet in this store, that he bought Robert Morriss' House. Or papers of Roland Buford, Clerk of the Bedford County Court, saying that he wanted James Beverly Ward to stop publishing and printing his book or all the others you claim such as Clay, Jackson or hell just anyone. You can't you need to research and find them then post what they say with documentation. That is what we are searching for also is documentation to prove or disapprove the Mystery. Come on lay the proof on us instead of the same old post 5,000 times or is it 6,000 times does not make a difference as we tire of hearing it.

Max Guggenheimer owning the house of Robert Morriss is mentioned in the 1885 Beale Papers, and is the only person living at the time of publication.
I provided the links about the Lynchburg banquet for Andrew Jackson at which Rev Charles Green Clay presided and James Beverly Risqué and Pascal Buford attended, of which you are aware, as well as other links concerning those mentioned in the job pamphlet, or those involved with it in one fashion or another on several of the Beale threads.

I do not understand this recent flurry of complaints concerning my posts, from you and another.
Why does my research and comments upset you so?
I just discuss and post my findings as do you and others on these threads.
So, please tell me, what is the problem with that?

 

[Old Silver]

Max Guggenheimer owning the house of Robert Morriss is mentioned in the 1885 Beale Papers, and is the only person living at the time of publication.
I provided the links about the Lynchburg banquet for Andrew Jackson at which Rev Charles Green Clay presided and James Beverly Risqué and Pascal Buford attended, of which you are aware, as well as other links concerning those mentioned in the job pamphlet, or those involved with it in one fashion or another on several of the Beale threads.

I do not understand this recent flurry of complaints concerning my posts, from you and another.
Why does my research and comments upset you so?
I just discuss and post my findings as do you and others on these threads.
So, please tell me, what is the problem with that?

Franklin told you what the problem is, in his post above. You harass posters who don't think exactly like you think, repeating yourself over and over. And as the one you referred to as "another," I have tried to explain that to you multiple times. You've made your point known about what you believe and think about the Beale story, and that's fine, you have the right to do that. You DON'T have the right to harass and argue with everyone here. You have fought with every single poster on this board who have posted anything to do with the Beale story possibly being true. Every single one of us, bar none. You have been warned by a moderator about that - "ECS if you do not believe in treasure story that is your right, but you can't be constantly argumentative with those that do."

Look on the right hand side of the page under the heading "Last post by." From top to bottom it's almost entirely posts by ECS. You have a right to post, but after the same things 5,000 times, as Franklin explained, it becomes harassment. And it's not so much that you have a lot of posts, it's WHAT you post that's the problem. You harass, argue, and hijacking threads, to the point that poster who want to come here and discuss our research can't do so in peace. It get's to where we don't want to post anymore. Many Beale posters who use to be regulars here are now either gone, or make only an occasional post. These are among the posters you harassed and argued with every post they made. One poster started a thread about something he had come up with, and you came behind him and said, "Nice work of fiction." What did he do? Just as anyone would do, he defended himself. The thread deteriorated into an argument that had nothing to do with the original topic. This is the agenda you have. You are here to upset the apple cart...to argue and harass everything you don't like about the Beale papers. You've been asked in a nice way to stop this. You've been told in not so nice ways to stop it. You've been warned by moderators to stop it. What is it going to take?

 

[franklin]

Max Guggenheimer owning the house of Robert Morriss is mentioned in the 1885 Beale Papers, and is the only person living at the time of publication.
I provided the links about the Lynchburg banquet for Andrew Jackson at which Rev Charles Green Clay presided and James Beverly Risqué and Pascal Buford attended, of which you are aware, as well as other links concerning those mentioned in the job pamphlet, or those involved with it in one fashion or another on several of the Beale threads.

I do not understand this recent flurry of complaints concerning my posts, from you and another.
Why does my research and comments upset you so?
I just discuss and post my findings as do you and others on these threads.
So, please tell me, what is the problem with that?

Yes Maxi bought Robert Morriss' House. And we know of James Beverly Risque and the Masons attended several parades and dinners yet where does this prove or disapprove the Beale Mystery. That is known facts neither for or against. But you have made several statements without any proof such as all those gentlemen you quoted from the Job Print Pamphlet living in Lynchburg saying they did not want their names or their ancestors in a fiction novel. Where is the proof? Also you say that Maxi was the only living person still living when the Job Print Pamphlet was published. What about James Beverly Ward and all of his 12 children? What about their grandchildren? The son of his niece that started the Piggly Wiggly store chain. Don't you think any of them would have objected if they thought their father had published a fiction novel telling everyone that it was true. James Beverly Ward if he was not the author but indeed agent for the author---------they both had from 1862 to 1885 to talk to everyone involved with the story. So when you say that Maxi was the only one living that could check with, why did not the author and James Beverly Ward seek out Paschal Buford and others to verify the story to be true. The reasons are plain they knew the story was true.

 

[ECS]

Franklin told you what the problem is, in his post above. You harass posters who don't think exactly like you think, repeating yourself over and over. And as the one you referred to as "another," I have tried to explain that to you multiple times. You've made your point known about what you believe and think about the Beale story, and that's fine, you have the right to do that. You DON'T have the right to harass and argue with everyone here. You have fought with every single poster on this board who have posted anything to do with the Beale story possibly being true. Every single one of us, bar none. You have been warned by a moderator about that - "ECS if you do not believe in treasure story that is your right, but you can't be constantly argumentative with those that do."

Look on the right hand side of the page under the heading "Last post by." From top to bottom it's almost entirely posts by ECS. You have a right to post, but after the same things 5,000 times, as Franklin explained, it becomes harassment...

In the last couple of my posts, where is it that I am harassing or arguing with Franklin, you, or anyone?
You keep claiming that I have run posters from these threads. Did they contact you and tell this? Who? If you make this charge you should be able to present evidence of this and of you other claims against me.

When does your constantly repeated complaints since 2013 concerning my doing this and that because you do like or agree with my posts become harassment?

You keep mentioning a moderator's warning, but neglect to mention that you were also warned.
To the best of my knowledge, and rereading over several of my posts since the admonition by several moderators, I do NOT see where I have argued or harassed anyone on these threads.

If you can cite and quote these transgressions, I will do my best not to commit them again in the future and post to your higher expectations, because, really, I am tired of this constantly repeated complaints of yours...
...OR , do I have to begin every post where I ask a question with the disclaimer, "This is not an argument or harassment, just a basic question"?

 

[Old Silver]

Yes Maxi bought Robert Morriss' House. And we know of James Beverly Risque and the Masons attended several parades and dinners yet where does this prove or disapprove the Beale Mystery. That is known facts neither for or against. But you have made several statements without any proof such as all those gentlemen you quoted from the Job Print Pamphlet living in Lynchburg saying they did not want their names or their ancestors in a fiction novel. Where is the proof? Also you say that Maxi was the only living person still living when the Job Print Pamphlet was published. What about James Beverly Ward and all of his 12 children? What about their grandchildren? The son of his niece that started the Piggly Wiggly store chain. Don't you think any of them would have objected if they thought their father had published a fiction novel telling everyone that it was true. James Beverly Ward if he was not the author but indeed agent for the author---------they both had from 1862 to 1885 to talk to everyone involved with the story. So when you say that Maxi was the only one living that could check with, why did not the author and James Beverly Ward seek out Paschal Buford and others to verify the story to be true. The reasons are plain they knew the story was true.

And what people overlook is that the Bufords, and almost everyone else, would have known nothing about a treasure, or even coded papers. Those things were kept secret. The only thing the general public would have known is that a man named Beale, and his party, were there. There was no reason to advertise anything in the newspaper. As for the party never returning, there is differing opinions on that. There is the possibility that the party did return. That would explain why Morriss never received the promised key. This would not change the story one bit, as the author, and Morriss, only BELIEVED Beale and his crew had been killed.

Also, not everyone keeps a diary, and not everything is posted in newspapers. But with this much time having passed, and with so many records we know have been lost, we simply can't conclude that nothing was ever written about this.

 

[Old Silver]

If the party never returned, would their families have known the secret of the treasure, or would they have continued believing their loved ones had been killed on a hunting expedition?
There were only 11 men that returned (Beale and 10 others), and as far as we are told, only two of those visited their families, which was near Richmond. My question is, whether it was 2, or 10, would they have told their families about the treasure? What would be the reasons for, and the possible implication of them telling their families about the treasure? What would be the reasons for, and the possible implication of them NOT telling their families about the treasure?