Additional evidence

[Old Silver]

In an advertisement in the Lynchburg Press, Dec. 1819, someone (unidentified) offered for sale 8 or 10 ox carts, 8 or 10 teams of oxen, and 10 or 12 work horses. Notice the timing - Dec., 1819. The Beale papers say that Beale and 10 of his party made the 1st deposit in Nov., 1819. Just after this, the correct number or oxen and ox carts were put up for sale in Lynchburg.

So, why sell the carts and oxen, if they were going back to do more mining? Well, I would imagine it would be much easier to walk/ride back to St. Louis free of all the extra baggage. And once back in St. Louis it would be easy enough to purchase FRESH animals, and carts. Also, the trip back to St. Louis with all the oxen, carts, etc. would excite more unwanted attention.

 

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[bigscoop]

"Just after this, the correct number or oxen and ox carts were put up for sale in Lynchburg."

You know how many oxen and ox carts the Beale party used, or that they even used oxen and ox carts? Well, now you have me as I have never run across that information. Where did you find this Beale information?

 

[Old Silver]

"Just after this, the correct number or oxen and ox carts were put up for sale in Lynchburg."

You know how many oxen and ox carts the Beale party used, or that they even used oxen and ox carts? Well, now you have me as I have never run across that information. Where did you find this Beale information?

You probably wouldn't believe it, no matter what I showed you. Does it seem, even a little, interesting that there were 10 men who returned with Beale? Why would he need 10? And the right time the story says Beale and his 10 men had just buried the 1st deposit. Notice I'm not saying the above is proof, but it's hard to argue against as pretty good suggestive evidence, which is all any of us have at this point.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, 7 of those men returned to their homes in UPPER GOOSE VALLEY, north of Buford's/Montvale, Va. Beale & 2 others continued on towards Lynchburg, Va. 2 went to Richmond, Va. area... Beale BOARDED at the Robert MORRIS home (Washington House/Inn) as stated in his Letter of May 9th, 1822.

 

[Old Silver]

Well, 7 of those men returned to their homes in UPPER GOOSE VALLEY, north of Buford's/Montvale, Va. Beale & 2 others continued on towards Lynchburg, Va. 2 went to Richmond, Va. area... Beale BOARDED at Robert MORRIS home (Washington House/Inn) as stated in his Letter of May 9th, 1822.

I'm guessing, if the story is true, that all of the 10 helped with depositing the goods.

 

[Old Silver]

In his book Seventy Years on the Frontier, Alexander Majors describes an 1827 silver expedition to locate a silver mine allegedly discovered near the Rocky Mountains in 1823 by James Cockrell. The 1827 expedition did find a once worked silver mine just as Cockrell said. Was Cockrell's discovered silver mine Beale's mine? Was Cockrell possibly who Beale was referring to when he said that outside parties ascertained, or found out, about the gold and silver? Cockrell certainly could have learned of the mine's location by trailing Beale and his men, keeping at a safe distance, upon their return to the mine in the summer of 1822, later to have pronounced "his" discovery in 1823.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Well, 7 of those men returned to their homes in UPPER GOOSE VALLEY, north of Buford's/Montvale, Va. Beale & 2 others continued on towards Lynchburg, Va. 2 went to Richmond, Va. area... Beale BOARDED at Robert MORRIS home (Washington House/Inn) as stated in his Letter of May 9th, 1822.

Well, 7 of those men returned to their homes in UPPER GOOSE VALLEY, north of Buford's/Montvale, Va. I have not seen this, were on earth do you get this idea from ?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I'm guessing, if the story is true, that all of the 10 helped with depositing the goods.

PROBABLY...

 

[Old Silver]

PROBABLY...

And then probably would have sold the oxen, horses and carts. Why feed animals for months when you can sell them and buy more when you get back to the job. Save money and trouble.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

And then probably would have sold the oxen, horses and carts. Why feed animals for months when you can sell them and buy more when you get back to the job. Save money and trouble.

You thinking that RM owned all of it...? I think the guys from Upper Goose Creek Valley kept MOST of it... dunno.

 

[Old Silver]

You thinking that RM owned all of it...? I think the guys from Upper Goose Creek Valley kept MOST of it... dunno.

Not RM, but POSSIBLY Beale and the 10 men who came with him.

Not 8 or ten oxen, but 8 or 10 TEAMS of oxen. And 10 or 12 work horses, and 8 or 10 ox carts. That's a lot of big animals. Beale stayed for about 1 month at Buford's and then about 2 months at Robert Morriss' at that time. The cost of the animal's provision doesn't seem to have been an issue, because they weren't sold until almost time to leave. Of course this all depends on those animals belonging to the Beale party, which we don't know. To me it sounds not only plausible, but probable, considering that the WHAT, WHERE and WHEN all seem to line up.

 

[Old Silver]

Not RM, but POSSIBLY Beale and the 10 men who came with him.

Not 8 or ten oxen, but 8 or 10 TEAMS of oxen. And 10 or 12 work horses, and 8 or 10 ox carts. That's a lot of big animals. Beale stayed for about 1 month at Buford's and then about 2 months at Robert Morriss' at that time. The cost of the animal's provision doesn't seem to have been an issue, because they weren't sold until almost time to leave. Of course this all depends on those animals belonging to the Beale party, which we don't know. To me it sounds not only plausible, but probable, considering that the WHAT, WHERE and WHEN all seem to line up.

If Beale and two of the 10 men went from Bufords to Morriss' Inn that would leave 8 men to stay at Bufords with the oxen, carts, and work horses, unless, as has been claimed, those men went on to another place. In that case, they would have taken the animals with them, no doubt.

 

[Old Silver]

Well, 7 of those men returned to their homes in UPPER GOOSE VALLEY, north of Buford's/Montvale, Va. Beale & 2 others continued on towards Lynchburg, Va. 2 went to Richmond, Va. area... Beale BOARDED at Robert MORRIS home (Washington House/Inn) as stated in his Letter of May 9th, 1822.

That leaves 1 man unaccounted for. Beale said that when the whole party accompanied him for the 1st 500 miles, all but 10 returned, and those 10 remained with him. 10 men WITH him means he was the 11th. Beale and 2 friends showing up at Robert Morriss' place leaves 8.

 

[franklin]

You are correct. There were two men to each of the five wagons and Beale on horseback. At times five of the men could ride on horses while the other five drove the wagons. Then they could have had eight or ten wagons but less riders for protection.

 

[Old Silver]

You are correct. There were two men to each of the five wagons and Beale on horseback. At times five of the men could ride on horses while the other five drove the wagons. Then they could have had eight or ten wagons but less riders for protection.

Very possible.

 

[Old Silver]

IF the 10 ox carts and animals were those of Beale and the 10 men that went with him to transport the treasure to Virginia, then each cart would have a team of oxen and 1 work horse for each cart, with maybe a couple of spare work horses. And here's the kicker. The weight of the treasure for each cart would have been only 400-500 pounds. That's about the weight of two to three average men. It doesn't seem quite as impossible as some want to believe. Just saying it's possible.

 

[Old Silver]

IF the 10 ox carts and animals were those of Beale and the 10 men that went with him to transport the treasure to Virginia, then each cart would have a team of oxen and 1 work horse for each cart, with maybe a couple of spare work horses. And here's the kicker. The weight of the treasure for each cart would have been only 400-500 pounds. That's about the weight of two to three average men. It doesn't seem quite as impossible as some want to believe. Just saying it's possible.

That was just for the first load, which would have been a little less than 500 pounds. The 2nd load would have been just a little more than 300 pounds, plus whatever the jewels would have weighed. These animals could have pulled these loads very easily. And remember they may have had a couple of spare work horses.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

That was just for the first load, which would have been a little less than 500 pounds. The 2nd load would have been just a little more than 300 pounds, plus whatever the jewels would have weighed. These animals could have pulled these loads very easily. And remember they may have had a couple of spare work horses.

One ton of gold




14.6 " x 14.6 " x 14.6 "

 

[TN_Guest1523]

That was just for the first load, which would have been a little less than 500 pounds. The 2nd load would have been just a little more than 300 pounds, plus whatever the jewels would have weighed. These animals could have pulled these loads very easily. And remember they may have had a couple of spare work horses.

After the civil war an improved form of wagon, the "Prairie Schooner" was introduced. These were usually painted blue with white canvas tops that were said to resemble sails from a distance. The wagons were built for hard use over tough terrain. Unloaded, they weighed 4,000 pounds. They had five feet ten inch diameter spoked rear wheels and four feet ten inch front wheels both with thick, wide, iron tires. The beds were twenty-four feet long and four feet six inches wide with sides that were five and a half feet high, covered with tarps arched over high ribs. Pulled by up to ten mules, they could haul 7,000 pounds. Making sure the load was balanced was very important. The wagons were individually numbered with the owner's name prominently painted on the side.



These early wagons were crudely but solidly built from local materials. They used almost no metals parts. Their solid wheels were seven feet in diameter, set seven feet apart. The beds were six feet wide and sixteen feet long and usually shaded. Carefully balanced, they were capable of hauling 5,000 lbs of freight. They were incredibly slow, capable of only ten miles day under good conditions. It took almost two weeks just to make it to the border.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

One ton of gold

View attachment 1311511

View attachment 1311512
14.6 " x 14.6 " x 14.6 "

Short Ton was 2000 pounds in 1800