About the San Roque 1605s Tierra Firme armada.

[Salvor6]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

I think the San Roque is wrecked on the Mysterioso Banks.

 

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[Claudio]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Salvor 6. this is a copy of the original drawing made by Zacarias and it corresponds to Swan islands

 

[Claudio]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Hi Don,
Zacarias tried to reach the island from Trujillo with the Spaniards but in an occasion they shipwrecked, other the Indians almost kill them. The third sighted Santanilla, but Zacarias was afraid and was quiet returning to Trujillo. In a first moment it was crossed out of liar, but another Flamish, Diego Mercado believed the history (this way say the documents) and they got the royal authorization. I ignore if they went to look for the treasure. Being that in 1663 the colonial administration gave order to look for the island, the treasure and the galleon, it's of supposing that everything is genuine.
As I said, in a beginning the declarations mention two galleons, and seemingly, for the description that gives Zacarias, there is another to the south-east, where indeed it buried the treasure that he found.
In 2003 an underwater archaeologist found evidences from an old shipwreck south of Great Swan. Bob Marx told me that "he found" bronze cannons.
If they were cannons, I have the complete list of all those that came in the San Roque and it would be easy to determine the discovery.

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Hello Claudio:

Yes, that is the chart as I recall it. From memory, I believe a 'tree' is mentioned somewhere on that chart. When I was there, I noted the 'port' was on the west side, not the north side, as noted. The current port was nothing more than a concrete wall, and the detachment of soldiers stationed on the island had no boat, only a radio,bare lighted rooms, hammocks and rotting floor boards. The port location on the chart could have been used in earlier times, but it wasn't the location of the current port.
The H. soldiers stationed there could only look over barbed wire and see the gringos hitting golf balls, participating in 'hay rides' and enjoying themselves, while the soldiers had nothing.
Thanks for sharing your research with this site (Swan and treasurenet), it's refreshing to read your thorough documentation.
Don....

I,too, had spoken to Bob before making the trip and he gave me some hints as to where to look. Unfortunately, the areas mentioned had been buried by a collapsed ceiling; and these areas were on the south side of Little Swan. The only mineral we encoutered was similar to calcite; a 3/4 inch layer at about 20 foot depth--on land.

There is wreckage visible on the east side of Big Swan, but that wreckage is 'modern', though coral encrusted. We accessed Little Swan from the north, swimming through a four foot gap in the coral; a tricky task with the action of the current and waves. (The gap was not perpendicular to the shore or the current.)

The 'river' that runs between the islands is subject to a good current--and shallow. We transited the 'river' with caution.

 

[Peg Leg]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

I recalled a little island north of Belize where Mexico had some military men stationed there to prevent the digging up of Mayan pottery. Theye were in the same bad shape as those on Swan Island. We improved their living conditions and became very good friends.
Treat the Local Military right and things will change in your favor.
Peg Leg

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Peg Leg:
Your advise: "Treat the Local Military right and things will change in your favor" is so true. And this can take more than the 'usual form'; TH-ers might consider extra food, action movie tapes, colorful T-shirts, baseball caps or whatever.
Don.......

 

[Claudio]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Don, you spend a survey all around the islands and banks?

 

[Claudio]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Peg Leg, what you mean with "favor"?

 

[rgecy]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Claudio,

"in your favor" means to your benefit or you would get preferential treatment.

Robert

 

[Peg Leg]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

I went through this in Sierra Leone. I recall that when the Gana Military showed up they were wearing plastic sandals. I showed them how to make RUBBER SANDALS FROM OLD TIRES. Within 3 weeks all the military troops were wearing rubber sandals. I became a Friend I also arranged for a shpiment of Medical Supplies to be flown into Freetown. I was a Friend of SAM WALTON,s.
Sometimes you do a favor without expecting anything in return.
"YOU GET BACK WHAT YOU PUT OUT"
PEG LEG

 

[Claudio]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Peg Leg, now I understand the favor explanation. Many thanks.

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Claudio:
We went to Mysterioso Banks and found the bottom at not less than 6 fathoms; certainly no land anywhere; at least no land 'today'.
Don......

 

[Claudio]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Don, I don't understand: where you spend your survey, Misteriosa bank or Swan Islands?

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Claudio:
We 'toured', more than 'surveyed' the waters of the M. Banks. We also did more of a survey off the Swans, especially Little Swan. We visited the area twice and stayed for a week or so, working on and offshore of LS. Our objective was not 1605, but we kept a sharp lookout--just in case. The permit we had allowed us to stay in the area, the nature of the permit is a 'trade secret'. My boat was registered in Roatan, which didn't hurt, either.
Don....

 

[Claudio]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Don, an Italian underwater archaeologist discovered and he declared the discovery officially in July 2003, an old jetsam in Great Swan. This ua declared in Roatan in a public notary. Is it possible that some place of the island was omitted in you survey?

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Claudio:
Of course, I could have overlooked anything, but I consider that UA's claim as bogus in the presence (and absence) of a few facts:
1.TH in Honduras is (or at least was) illegal; no exceptions.
2. The UA's claim seems to have petered out with just a claim; no follow up;
and that seems quite strange; certainly no public display of any artifacts
and no further public announcements of exploitation that I'm aware of.
3. The Lat/Long given in a (nonpublicized) report I saw at the time seems
bogus for a wreck in that area (open water, some distance NW of BSwan).
Are you aware of any follow-up to that UA's claim? (Or his name, Email, etc.)
Do you know what permit he had to be in those waters in the first place?
Don.......

 

[Claudio]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Don,
this is a transcription and translation of Simón Zacarias's declaration made in Trujillo (Honduras) on August 3, 1616:
..... (about when arrived to the island) they walked the whole island surrounding and in the part of the south-east they found a piece of ship that would be with 1/4 part, apparently Spanish, with approximately 700 or 800 tons......

Surprisingly in these same declarations Zacarias affirms and he draws it, that he buried the money found in the island in the part to the south-east of Great Swan.
Sincerely I don't know if the Italian UA's found a shipwreck, but would not make sense lie. Why?

About the UA's, to me the most important thing is that a possible discovery is the evidence of the truthfulness of the story. I don't think that the military in the island have allowed him to spend a survey without permit.

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Claudio:
On that same eastern side of Big Swan is where we also found a wreck, but it was clearly post-1600s. It is located on the northside of the channel that separated Big and Little Swan.
Also, Big Swan can be walked around,as noted in "Z's" testimonial, but not Little Swan; the terrain on LS is too trecherous and nearly inpentrable with undergrowth.
Again, the activities on Big Swan at the time I was there included much more than a 'weather station' or a coconut plantation--as noted by the daily landing/departure of a C-5.
Don....

 

[Claudio]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Hi Don, for the news of the UA's he found the jetsam to the south that I insist, this corresponds with the declaration of Zacarias, not to the east or north of the channel. Do you search south of the island?
Claudio

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: About the San Roque 1605's Tierra Firme armada.

Claudio:
On the south side actually SW side of Big S Island are the Boobies, rock projections that we avoided due to their hazardous nature along with Honduran and US "company" presence. We did check out the 'caves' on the south side of LS next to the s/e side of Big Swan. We were checking out stories of those caves, but the ceilings had collapsed and access was not pursued.

That UA or someone else who made the claim of finding a Spanish wreck in the area around Big Swan stills leaves me thinking the story is bogus since nothing has 'surfaced' (to my knowledge) to corroborate that story. If you have pics of whatever he claimed to have found or wish to post his name and Email address, I'd like to contact him.
Don...