A little more for the small operator.

[Mad Machinist]

I am pretty damn sure I have figured out how to get a small guy operating for less than what most of us have paid for our houses.

I talked to Pat Keene earlier today about his RC812DR. For those who don't know this is basically an 8x12 haw crusher mounted on top of two roller crusher stacked on top of each other. It will take an 8 inch rock and crush it down to 80 to 150 mesh single pass. Right now it retails for around $25K. Not that bad considering the other options.

The RC812 is going to change however. It will soon enough be a TRIPLE roller crusher under the 8x12 jaw crusher for about 90% passing 100 mesh single pass from 8 inch rock.

Now an iCON150 is $8k all day long on ebay. It will process 2 tons per hour to match the RC812. So now we are at $33K. Still well under the price of a new vehicle


Add in a few small conveyors and vibratory feeders and we are at $38K. Still under the price of a new vehicle.

Get a MSI 255 for final processing and we are at $43K at the outside.

So now we move onto the extraction part of this
A MSW83F jack leg with the feed leg is less than $6K brand new from MW Drill. There us another option but I won't mention it until I know more about it.

The MSE83F uses 110 cfm at either 90 or 100 psi. Add in a few K for drill steels with some 1" air line and we are at $52K.

A brand new Chicago Pnuematic towable compressor capable of 110 psi is $12.5K brand new. Your mileage may vary here as you might find something cheaper locally. Used towable compressors typically go around $6K but I am dealing with new equipment here

Add in a generator here, I recommend the Multiquip Whisperwatt. Very quiet and reliable. Something in the 45-50kw range would do nicely. Retails around $15K used with decent hours.

So we are right about $80k.

$1250 for two days of training through American Explosives Group on how to use the new 1.4s class explosives along with a few K to meet storage requirements and licensing for the 1.4s explosives and we come right in about $85K.

This is for a true no bullshit 2 ton per hour processing system that is easily maintained by the average person with reasonable mechanical ability.

Depending on your ore grade, the payback time is 4 months or less on .25 opt average.

 

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[tamrock]

Don't forget your ventilation and ground control cost. Then there's your cost of hauling the muck out. I knew two bothers who handled a ton or so a day taking turns on a Ames shovel and wheelbarrow. They also placed their shots with stick powder bought at the local hardware store in holes they drilled out with with a single jack and hand steel. One was a fella I worked with and they took me down one time our days off to show me their operation. It was a claim handed down by their granddad in Summit County Colorado and it had a pretty fair value in silver. The rock had no compressive strength, so single jacking wasn't bad, but the rock was also full of lead and that made for a pretty small volume to the ton.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Don't forget your ventilation and ground control cost. Then there's your cost of hauling the muck out. I knew two bothers who handled a ton or so a day taking turns on a Ames shovel and wheelbarrow. They also placed their shots with stick powder bought at the local hardware store in holes they drilled out with with a single jack and hand steel. One was a fella I worked with and they took me down one time our days off to show me their operation. It was a claim handed down by their granddad in Summit County Colorado and it had a pretty fair value in silver. The rock had no compressive strength, so single jacking wasn't bad, but the rock was also full of lead and that made for a pretty small volume to the ton.

Haven't got that far yet. Still working out the ventilation thing, but it won't be nearly as bad as most people think.

 

[tamrock]

I got to thinking about how to run a small mine mucking operation and that made me think there's gotta be something out there like a power traction battery operated heavy duty wheelbarrow and sure enough there is. "Muck-Truck" they call this one. There's a big push on the big companies to reduce the diesel emissions underground and the last Las Vegas mine-expo I went to I saw several large battery operated LHD muck scoops being offered. Still they're all limited on run time, as this little hauler from the UK, can only keep up for 3.5 hours before I guess you'd need to swap batteries. https://www.mucktruck.com/etruck/

 

[Mad Machinist]

I got to thinking about how to run a small mine mucking operation and that made me think there's gotta be something out there like a power traction battery operated heavy duty wheelbarrow and sure enough there is. "Muck-Truck" they call this one. There's a big push on the big companies to reduce the diesel emissions underground and the last Las Vegas mine-expo I went to I saw several large battery operated LHD muck scoops being offered. Still they're all limited on run time, as this little hauler from the UK, can only keep up for 3.5 hours before I guess you'd need to swap batteries. https://www.mucktruck.com/etruck/

It wont get any better until battery technology improves and drops in price. They have lithium ion batteries for forklifts now. Problem is their are nearly $20k vs $6k and the lithium ion batteries require additional ballast due to their lighter weight.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Most have the ventilation thing figured out. Here's a chart with the flows of various size hard ducting.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/equivalent-diameter-d_443.html

Pat special attention to the friction loss column. You will need that to size your blower. The friction loss is what builds static pressure in your system that gas to be overcome to move a specified amount of air.

For instance, I am planning for 7500 cfm at the face at a distance of 1000 feet. So if my friction loss is .15 for every 100 feet and I have 1000 feet of ducting, I have a static pressure of 1.5 to overcome.

1000 feet divided by 100 equals 10 time .15 equals 1.5 inches of static pressure. Now I can size my blower.

 

[Mad Machinist]

And we have a winner.

https://hvacdirect.com/hartzell-ser...ckward-curved-centrifugal-fan-03p-22-7-5.html

Will deliver 8000 cfm with a 7.5 hp motor at 4 inches of water pressure.

Really not that bad of a price for a fan that will deliver 8000 cfm at the end of a 1000' foot run of hard ducting

Of course we are planning an adit 8' wide and 10' tall to give room for the ventilation ducting, hard air lines, water lines, and power lines while still walking upright.

 

[barrelroll]

I was just going to ask about mucking. If you are willing to run diesel underground something like a toro dingo or even a small skid steer would work good without having to deal with laying track. I was on a mine tour and they were using golf cart type utility carts with home made dump beds to haul out ore. Diesel 4 wheeler with a trailer would work if you have a long tram and a loading/ turn around point.

We use diesel Polaris rangers undergound and the maintenance costs will be expensive with "non mine spec" equipment which might be an issue. Less than 100 hours on a wheel bearing is the biggest cost.

MES has tons of used mining stuff like vent bags and fans when you get serious.

Are you going to use 2" vic groove pipe for your air and water lines or 1" rubber hose? I've hung tons of both but don't know what they cost a foot with fittings. What's the plan for supplying the jack leg with water?

 

[Mad Machinist]

I was just going to ask about mucking. If you are willing to run diesel underground something like a toro dingo or even a small skid steer would work good without having to deal with laying track. I was on a mine tour and they were using golf cart type utility carts with home made dump beds to haul out ore. Diesel 4 wheeler with a trailer would work if you have a long tram and a loading/ turn around point.

We use diesel Polaris rangers undergound and the maintenance costs will be expensive with "non mine spec" equipment which might be an issue. Less than 100 hours on a wheel bearing is the biggest cost.

MES has tons of used mining stuff like vent bags and fans when you get serious.

Are you going to use 2" vic groove pipe for your air and water lines or 1" rubber hose? I've hung tons of both but don't know what they cost a foot with fittings. What's the plan for supplying the jack leg with water?

I'm looking at several options right now. I'm also nor a big fan of internal combustion engines underground. Sends the ventilation requirements through the roof. Need 110 cfm of ventilation per diesel horsepower underground. So if you have several diesels underground ventilation gets real expensive real quick.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Barrelroll,

You just gave me a hell of an idea. Build a heavier frame for a golf cart out of 2x2x1/4" box tubing and extend it about two feet. Put a dump box on it and go. Replace the rear leaf's with a set of heavier trailer springs and your good. The extra two feet would give room for more batteries for a longer run time too.

I think I understand now why Freeport keeps me around despite being an insubordinate little pain in the ass. Lol.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Barrelroll,

You just gave me a hell of an idea. Build a heavier frame for a golf cart out of 2x2x1/4" box tubing and extend it about two feet. Put a dump box on it and go. Replace the rear leaf's with a set of heavier trailer springs and your good. The extra two feet would give room for more batteries for a longer run time too.

I think I understand now why Freeport keeps me around despite being an insubordinate little pain in the ass. Lol.

This went to the next level. Have a rough design based off of alot of automotive parts to try and keep this as cheap as possible. Going into town tomorrow to get some steel prices. Best part is the fact that this is battery powered for no emissions underground

 

[pczim]

Run your generators and compressors above ground... send cables underground.... run everything with electric motors underground....transport ore with electric winches

 

[tamrock]

The coal mines in Price, Utah use to have those late 80s early 90s Isuzu diesel engine pup pickups running underground. There was a guy in town who had a shop and he'd buy those and the old diesel Chevy Luv's and ad a few things to the stock truck, such as a PTX to the exhaust and a few other things to make them permissible. They were cheap alternative to a lot of other factory made small mobile equipment. I rode in the back of one once that looked like it been to hell and back everyday. That thing was beat to hell, but kept on truck'n around that mine. They used those as boss buggies, nipping trucks or what ever you might do with a small pickup. That guy who retrofitted them, told me he'd pay me a finders fee on any I might find that might be salvageable sitting around a junkyard cheap.

 

[tamrock]

I was just going to ask about mucking. If you are willing to run diesel underground something like a toro dingo or even a small skid steer would work good without having to deal with laying track. I was on a mine tour and they were using golf cart type utility carts with home made dump beds to haul out ore. Diesel 4 wheeler with a trailer would work if you have a long tram and a loading/ turn around point.

We use diesel Polaris rangers undergound and the maintenance costs will be expensive with "non mine spec" equipment which might be an issue. Less than 100 hours on a wheel bearing is the biggest cost.

MES has tons of used mining stuff like vent bags and fans when you get serious.

Are you going to use 2" vic groove pipe for your air and water lines or 1" rubber hose? I've hung tons of both but don't know what they cost a foot with fittings. What's the plan for supplying the jack leg with water?

The poly pipes the cheapest, if buy new, plus you won't need all the cast iron elbows and angle pieces to install in all the twist and turns though out the mine with rigid steel pipe, whereas the flexible poly pipe you can bend like a hose. When I worked underground it was all 4" air and 2" water Victralic pipe to install. We use to take a 4 inch Vic clamp gasket and tell a new hire as soon as he was able to turn that gasket inside out using only one hand, that's when he'll no longer be selected for all the grunt work. So where'd you work barrelroll?

 

[AuNoob]

What about bio-diesel? Would that make a it a more palatable/sustainable/environmentally acceptable approach? Also, converted and gravity purified waste oil may help to curb emission production could lessen the impact on the ventilation system. Just thoughts not nearly as wise as you gents.

 

[tamrock]

What about bio-diesel? Would that make a it a more palatable/sustainable/environmentally acceptable approach? Also, converted and gravity purified waste oil may help to curb emission production could lessen the impact on the ventilation system. Just thoughts not nearly as wise as you gents.

A blend of biodiesel is already being used in underground mobile equipment. https://www.biodiesel.org/using-biodiesel/market-segments/mining

 

[arizau]

Exhaust scrubbers along with good ventilation is necessary with combustion engines underground.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Got some steel prices today and had a WTF moment. Getting ridiculous.

Anyhow, Taylor Dunn still makes an adapter for a Ford 9 inch rear axle that replaces the seal retainer in order to convert to electric battery powered drive. This isn't cheap but neither is ventilation for a diesel engine underground.

 

[barrelroll]

The poly pipes the cheapest, if buy new, plus you won't need all the cast iron elbows and angle pieces to install in all the twist and turns though out the mine with rigid steel pipe, whereas the flexible poly pipe you can bend like a hose. When I worked underground it was all 4" air and 2" water Victralic pipe to install. We use to take a 4 inch Vic clamp gasket and tell a new hire as soon as he was able to turn that gasket inside out using only one hand, that's when he'll no longer be selected for all the grunt work. So where'd you work barrelroll?

Still working underground moly. Fused vic is cheap/ easy but you do have to fuse it and buy a fusing machine or start buying no fuse connectors which I'm pretty sure aren't cheap. We've gone away from HDPE in a lot of situations but it has more to do with corporate policy than anything else.

What about bio-diesel? Would that make a it a more palatable/sustainable/environmentally acceptable approach? Also, converted and gravity purified waste oil may help to curb emission production could lessen the impact on the ventilation system. Just thoughts not nearly as wise as you gents.

Bio is common underground, I think we run B20. I don't think it would be an issue for MM but B20 doesn't like the cold, anything that sees the surface here at 10k' gets #1 diesel or isn't outside for more than a couple minutes in the winter. Elevation is another issue with small non turbo diesels and even turbo diesels in general, the workings are from 7-8k' and we couldn't get the new Koehler diesels to pass emissions.


I'm interested to see this golf cart based creation. I know they made rubber tired Cavo Muckers but I believe they were diesel. Most jumbos and bolters these days use a diesel to move around and AC power to drill/ bolt. You could rig a mucker up to tram on batteries and then work on AC but than you have the expense of running SO cable to the face. The cheapest option might be to just deal with rail and mucking with a 12b instead of reinventing the wheel.

Any surplus steel yards your way? We have a place that sells drops from shops by the pound. Also a huge surplus/ used aluminum yard, it was nice when I need 1/4" plate for jeep skid plates, still not cheap but much cheaper than buying a whole sheet of new.

 

[barrelroll]

Got some steel prices today and had a WTF moment. Getting ridiculous.

Anyhow, Taylor Dunn still makes an adapter for a Ford 9 inch rear axle that replaces the seal retainer in order to convert to electric battery powered drive. This isn't cheap but neither is ventilation for a diesel engine underground.

There's a ton of broaches out there for 28 spline 9" pinion yokes, Jess at high angle driveline should have one and likes to do custom work. I'm thinking he could make you a lovejoy to 9" yoke pretty easy and relatively cheaply and he might have done it all ready. 9" seal to electric motor adapter should be easy with a mill and a lathe, I think it's a round pattern on the 9" but I cant remember for sure and Jess might be interested in making that as well. I'm wondering if you are better off with a driveshaft. Stock 9" third members/ pinion supports aren't exactly strong, one good whack against the rib with everything hard mounted and somewhere is going to have to give.

Depending on how much the off the shelf adapter is and if it's actually in stock or made to order it might be a better option than something custom machined when you need another. More parts on the shelf at the parts store the better might be a good way to go. I used to work on Palatek compressors a lot, we joked they were built out of a Grainger catalog. Almost every part was non proprietary and you could always find parts in town or have them in the mail same day. 0 proprietary motors, switches, electronics, bearings, couplers, standard push lock control hose fittings. I think the only part we had to get from them were shaft seals. It really cut down on downtime and repair costs for our customers when we could run across town and be back in a couple hours with parts if we didn't have them on the truck.

Are you thinking something with 0 suspension like a lot of mine equipment? Articulated in the middle or a steering axle in front?