A Heap of Proof.

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Hal Croves said:
Here is an example of what I am finding now when comparing the stone and paper maps against an aerial image or, even better, the SSR topo. I am not saying that either was used to make the stones. This is only one example. If its correct, the two maps lead to the same very real place.
Its 2 dots on the stone map and a circle within a circle on the paper version.



Click to expand...

If you are following, the location is called Broadway Cave and it has an interesting history.
Read this quote:

"The aged sources were living here in the mid 1900s when the story takes place. As avid treasure hunters a man and woman located hidden treasure in the Broadway Cave in the form of coins. Upon securing their treasure, they sought out information and potential buyers for their prize. They did not count on the onslaught of corrupt officials and scoundrels that appeared on scene. The pair were murdered for their find and join the list of unsolved murders, few of which were ever investigated."

"A tunnel leads about fifty feet to an abrupt end. This is the reported area where the treasure was recovered and subsequent diggings have occurred."

Hike to the Broadway Cave - the Junction Connection (Apache Junction, AZ) - Meetup
 

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I think that the two trail stones are a mix of map and view. This line appears to be a topographic profile (an inset) found on the second trail stone. Find that line and you have found the end of the trail. Or, the beginning of the end.


I sent the actual matching profile, found in the SWA to several TNet members that are trusted and well respected by many. If they feel like commenting on what I have shown them, they are free to do so either way. I am hoping that once they study the other half of this image, they will share their thoughts openly, here on TNet.

I will say this. IMO, while the Heart and Upper Trail stones are important for getting one to the general area, the Lower Trail stone clearly shows us what to look for, once you are at the site and know what to look for.

I think that I can now put a person at that same location, with the identical view, seeing that almost identical line.
 

Joe

I saw the Black Top in your picture and reminded me something . Are you aware of this petroglyph sign on the Black Top Mesa ?

untitled.jpg
 

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BASED ON THIS READING OF THE STONE & Paper maps....Everything in orange will lead you to the general area. I have already shared where I think that is based on both maps. Once there, that general area, I think that the Lower Trail stone is used to identify the specific location (landmark), the search area. That landmark is obvious once you know where to place it and connected to another one of the stone maps in a way that can not be ignored.

If this is correct, Joe is right and Weavers Needle is seen right about where it should be. The white profile line is found within the dotted white circle.
 

Hal,

My understanding of the zigzag lines is they represent ridges lines cut as walkers trails high up. The line near the burial with the cross could be a ridge or a trail.
I base this on my own experience with walkers trails which usually follow high mountain ridges. "A" maps are a common directional marker and they used them in the field and on maps. The spider cracks between the zigzag lines are the valleys below. 10 degrees is usually the offset from true north at the end of the map from the final monuments at least this is what I've found near the ground cross laid out on the side of a mountain facing true north and about 360 feet long which I believe represents a compass. Circles in Circles always represent a door metaphorically speaking as a free masons view of a doorway is an open valley with a closed slot canyon leading to it. Circles also represent the end goal or rabbit hole entrance to the mine and stash or cache.

The pointers are probably the same pointers in shadow I've posted on here as they are common in the field. Like I've said earlier I believe the numeric numerals represent the declination of the sun at the Equator which give the solar times for viewing the symbols on the maps from the starting point. It also serves to give you the time of year for starting the journey from the bottom part of the map.

Just my observations and opinions.








Hal Croves said:
BASED ON THIS READING OF THE STONE & Paper maps....Everything in orange will lead you to the general area. I have already shared where I think that is based on both maps. Once there, that general area, I think that the Lower Trail stone is used to identify the specific location (landmark), the search area. That landmark is obvious once you know where to place it and connected to another one of the stone maps in a way that can not be ignored.

If this is correct, Joe is right and Weavers Needle is seen right about where it should be. The white profile line is found within the dotted white circle.
Click to expand...
 

I am not sure if this is correct Bill. I placed the map based on the idea that the dotted lines are canyons or trails and everything else just fell into place. It could be coincidence or the correct way to read the maps. Who knows. I am a few steps ahead of what I am posting and feel that the idea is a strong one. But, as you know, I have felt this way before. This time I am trying to remain skeptical but it is very difficult to dismiss what I am finding.

Here is the view one will find if they go to the location that I am writing about. The profile and the Needle. If the map is followed this way, to the same location, when one arrives, the view will be identical to this image, only in the actual landscape and not as symbols.

So, to be clear. This may be the end of the trail.
Or the beginning of another.

 

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Joe

I found an interesting story about this signs on Black Top . And the story is:

THE LOCATOR MAP


Gerald and I were flying recon over the Superstition Mountains. We were particularly interested in the south end of Black Top Mesa near the Spanish Hieroglyphics. We needed to know if there was any hidden caves or ledges on the cliff face.
We made one low pass over the mesa doing a right bank which let me look out the passenger’s window almost straight down to the ground. It was an odd sensation. As we made a second circle, I spotted an opening and was looking straight down a shaft. It was between to ledges and some bushes had grown up in front of the shaft to the point were You had to be in the perfect position in the air to see it. A little higher and the shaft would be covered by the overhang of the ledge,. A little lower and the bushes covered it up. I thought for sure we could find it.
The next weekend Gerald and I hiked into Black Top and climbed to the Hieroglyphics. From there, we made it over to the south end of the mesa to the cliffs. We spent several hours looking for the shaft. Finally giving up we took an old air matrice from an abandoned camp and wrapped it around a bush for a marker.
The next day we flew over the area again. The air matrice was only 20 yards from the shaft..
The following weekend we hiked back to the area and this time we were successful in locating the shaft. Keep in mind that this shaft was located in the rock cliffs just below the basalt top of the mesa. We cleared the shaft of brush and started digging. It was easy dirt. Very little rock. We were about six feet down when we found charcoal. We were very excited. We dug another five feet before we realized it was going to be dark soon and we had to be back out of the mountains for previouos engagements with our wives.
We scattered the dirt the best we could as to not attract attention to any other treasure hunters. Then we carefully placed the brush back over the entrance to conseal it. We had to hustle out of the mountains, but we made it back to the First Water Trailhead about an hour after dark.
The next weekend we brought re-enforcements. My brother and Step father came with us to provide security while we dug. But when we got there, things had changed. Someone had set a blast in the basalt rocks above the shaft and slid the entire section of mountain down on the shaft. It was a hopeless case to try to clear the rubble.
So there you have it. There is a shaft near the Spanish Hieroglyphics. Is there anything in it? Who knows? But it was very easy digging in a solid rock cave. Almost as if someone had backfilled it on purpose.
Who blasted the rubble? I can’t prove it, but I believe it was Crazy Jake. I don’t think he did it on purpose. I don’t think he even knew there was a shaft below.
Click to expand...
 

markmar said:
Joe

I found an interesting story about this signs on Black Top . And the story is:
Click to expand...


Marius,

I will assume you had no idea what or where the picture I posted was. It is Southeast of the sunburst and other markings on Blacktop. On that line, is my Uncle Chuck's claim, on which dynamite was used. It is in solid rock. Chuck's team searched that entire area. I was on some of those searches.

I have now given you some pretty good clues, as to what and where my picture is. Give it your best guess.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
 

cactusjumper said:
Marius,

I will assume you had no idea what or where the picture I posted was. It is Southeast of the sunburst and other markings on Blacktop. On that line, is my Uncle Chuck's claim, on which dynamite was used. It is in solid rock. Chuck's team searched that entire area. I was on some of those searches.

I have now given you some pretty good clues, as to what and where my picture is. Give it your best guess.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
Click to expand...

Not everyone knows who your uncle was. Would you mind posting a few words about him? A picture to two?
Where were you camped?

Thanks Joe!
 

Joe

You took my question like an attack . Was a simple question which i made to connect the story with the signs . I knew where the sings were/are , and i knew how your uncle had searched this area and how he used dynamite . So , he was connected indirect with the story which i posted .
Is amazing to see the image ( like a movie ) when two different parties of treasure hunters , are separately connected in the same period to the same area .
 

markmar said:
Joe

You took my question like an attack . Was a simple question which i made to connect the story with the signs . I knew where the sings were/are , and i knew how your uncle had searched this area and how he used dynamite . So , he was connected indirect with the story which i posted .
Is amazing to see the image ( like a movie ) when two different parties of treasure hunters , are separately connected in the same period to the same area .
Click to expand...

Marius,

Sorry you feel I took your post the wrong way. I did not take it as an "attack", and thought my reply was very even- handed.

Even so, I doubt you know where the sign I posted was, or why it was there. Few people do, unless I told them.

This is Chuck Ribaudo in front of his claim on Blacktop:

CHUCKONBLACKTOPCLAIM.jpg


What and where is the rock in my picture?

Take care,

Joe
 

Hal Croves said:
Not everyone knows who your uncle was. Would you mind posting a few words about him? A picture to two?
Where were you camped?

Thanks Joe!
Click to expand...

Hal,

In addition to the above post there is this:


Chuck Ribaudo was an interesting man. Good to have as a friend, not so good to have as an enemy. He was a short, muscular Italian who had trouble resisting women all his life. A constant smoker for thirty years, it contributed to his early death.

I met him when I was around 12 or 13 years old. At thirteen, I made my first trip into to the Superstitions with Chuck and my dad.
MyFirstTriipIntoTheSuperstitions.jpg


It was the beginning of my lifelong interest in the LDM and the legends of the Supe's. We made many trips over the years, but Chuck's initial interest was Blacktop. However, we did have a wide range of exploration.

Doc Phillips, Ernie Provence and Chuck Ribaudo at Chuck's claim:

arizona-lostdutchman009.jpg


Chuck had some interest in the Stone Maps, and we did make one trip into Willow Spring. He did see my map and for the most part agreed with my conclusions. That one trip was when my brother and I found the two stone monuments, which I was certain would be very close to where I had placed them on my map.

Chuck was a good man to have backing you up. He was fearless, the fastest draw I have ever seen as well as being an expert marksman. He believe and stated many times that he had been born a 100 years too late.

Matthew Roberts with Chuck's Colt .45


IMG_5312.jpg



He was involved in the Bob Brady search for a cave of gold bars over by Bluff Spring Mountain. He was also a good friend of Al Morrow and we spent a great deal of time in his camp. He had Al search for the cave after failing to find it. Later Al called Maxine, Chuck's wife, and told her he had found the cave.......he later denied to Chuck that he had made that call.

Chuck was also involved in the Harry LaFrance search which lasted for around 90 days. Chuck and Ernie Provence had Harry with them in the mountains when he got ill. Chuck tied him to his horse and they took him out of the mountains and to the VA Hospital in Prescott, where he died.

That search was the reason for my continued time in the Superstitions, which ended in 2004.

Take care,

Joe
 

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Joe

I don't understand your comportment . You know how i don't participate and i don't give answers when somebody push me . You have the rights of any doubt about my knowledge .
And I tell you again how my question was just to connect the picture with the story . i didn't suspected how you didn't know .

Nice rocks in the picture .
 

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markmar said:
Joe

I don't understand your comportment . You know how i don't participate and i don't give answers when somebody push me . You have the rights of any doubt about my knowledge .
And I tell you again how my question was just to connect the picture with the story . i don't suspected how you don't knew .

Nice rocks in the picture .
Click to expand...

Marius,

Here's the deal......When you come onto a site like this, with many people who have been researching and exploring the Superstition Mountains, for years, try to have a little humility. When you are asked a question that you don't know the answer to, don't bristle, just say I don't know.

IMHO, here's the bottom line. Without a thorough knowledge of the history and legends of the LDM as well as the Superstitions, you are at a distinct disadvantage in these conversations.

Do you know about the Cactus Marker and its history?

Believe me, this thing has a long learning curve.

Good luck,

Joe
 

cactusjumper said:
Marius,

Here's the deal......When you come onto a site like this, with many people who have been researching and exploring the Superstition Mountains, for years, try to have a little humility. When you are asked a question that you don't know the answer to, don't bristle, just say I don't know.

IMHO, here's the bottom line. Without a thorough knowledge of the history and legends of the LDM as well as the Superstitions, you are at a distinct disadvantage in these conversations.

Do you know about the Cactus Marker and its history?

Believe me, this thing has a long learning curve.

Good luck,

Joe
Click to expand...

true joe....some of us that live here and have spent most of our lives poking around the supers have a hard time putting much stock in the theories of people on the other side of the world that have never set foot in the supers
 

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