A Challenge

nottingham ,sank 1710, 12 rubies valued at 1.5 million, plus other treasure aboard-------birkmire, sank 1876 , safe containing large amt gold and silver aboard---------------, 3 unidentified merchantmen sank 1780,, cargo rum-------------unidentified spanish, sank 1700 , large cargo of silver coins and bullion----------sagunto, sank jan. 1813, cargo included gold and silver coins-------------spanish treasure galleon conception, sank 1813 , large cargo of gold and silver and personal treasures-----------unidentified spanish galleon, 1685, 880,000.00 in gold coin, also silver bullion and plate--------------british, king edward, lg amt gold and silver cargo-------------sindia, 1910, sank with cargo then valued at 1.2 million----------oregon, 1886, sank with 896 passengers and all their belongings-------------bethany, 1877, cargo valued then at 600,000.00---------------city of athens, sank with 3 million in gold bullion aboard------unidentified spanish galleon with 5 million in gold and silver----------------juno, oct,1802, 34 guns and 300,000 pesos in silver bullion and coins----------live oak, 1769, 50,000.00 in gold coins aboard---------==============-----------==========---------------=====these are just the shipwrecks listed in one book, covering two counties .....i did not list the ones that did not show a known treasure involved.....there were at least 20 others........most of them most likely carried some sort of treasure also.............and these two areas are not in bad water/ ship graveyard type areas..just the normal...................if you can study all this, covering many states, and not think it is worth it, i would get a net and go to the local wishing well.....................ya'll have a nice day..........gldhntr
 

Okay Sea Hunter . . . . in simple terms . . . .

You do NOT believe there are billions of dollars worth of last treasure and items of value on shipwreaks in the various bodies of water on this planet. ?Is that correct??

Give us your fair and best guess then, how much do YOU think might be lost on various shipwreaks of the world?? ?And remember, those gold coins ALONE off the SS Republic recovered by Odyssey last summer had, in many cases, a FACE Value of $20/coin and sold individually for tens of thousands each. ?(This information is only what I have read at different coin sites that are selling these coins. ?Perhaps THEY are also BSing me and others.) ?And that is just one (1) wreak of many that have been found and more that have not been found.

For some reason I constantly get the impression that you think TN and the people that post here are out to deceive you, take your money and feed you BS. ?I've only been a member here for about 5-6 months myself and I think most of the people here actually have better things to do than that.

Try reading a LOT more of the postings here and see if that clears up anything for you. ?If not, well then there's little more I can say and I won't.

Hobo

My friend, as most on that operation, got paid his normal wage . . . as far as I know. ?He was not an investor, he was a worker.

One last question if I might . . . How long have you had a MD or an active interest (diving, research, prospecting, relic hunting, metal detecting, etc . . .) in any sort of lost property retrivial?
 

da hobo


OK- I could probably be convinced that there might be a couple of billion-tops-in shipwrecks worldwide.
But the billions are not just sitting there waiting to be found,mores the pity :'(.
However I could be wrong-and I would love to be proved wrong because if I was wrong then I would be rich in so many ways. I will therefore take your advise and read more of the posts throughout this site to try and prove myself wrong!!!.


Oh! and to answer your question-my first dive on a shipwreck was in 1981, and it was a 17th Century man o war.So I do have some experience in this subject.
 

Hello Sea Hunter,
I think of three ships. The "Flor de la Mar" which sank in 1525 in the Straits of Mulocca is valued at 78 BILLION. It had on board two life size lion statues given as a gift to the Sultan of Mulocca from the emperor of China, 15 chests of diamonds, 17 chests of gold Pagoda coins, etc. The San Roque which sank somewhere near the Seranilla Banks in 1605 had 2,000 pounds of emeralds on the manifest as property of the King. The value is estimated at 300 BILLION! The "Deliverance" which sank near Key West is valued near 3 billion. We're already near a half trillion dollars and trhis is just 3 ships! Bob Marx estimates there are about 1000 Spanish treasure galleons lost just around the state of Florida.
 

Salvor 6

Thanks for the info especially the stuff about the Flor de la Mar with its $78 Billion. Has any one ever found it or tried to find it?
 

I think this is the same ship, these two clips are from seperate sources.

Flor do Mar. Portuguese ship sunk off Melaka, present Malaysia in 1511. Supposedly loaded with 60 tons of gold. The wreck area is located on 37 m depth. But it seems to be under 15 m of sediment and all treasure hunt has failed so far. Described by Robert F Marx in The Search for Sunken Treasure.


Robert Marx Archaeological consultant for South East Asia Salvage in the discovery of the Portuguese carrack Flor de la Mar, the flagship of Admiral Affonso de Albuquerque, which sank on the northeast coast of Sumatra Island in 1511, after the capture and sack of Malacca in Malaysia. Also acted as advisor and historical consultant in the excavation of this shipwreck. February 1990 and March 1991.
 

Cablava

Thanks for the info.I had already googled the Flora del Mar and found a few sites. It looks like there have been a few attempts at salvaging it. All attempts seemed to have failed.
 

I did some further reading on Flor de la mar salvage attempts. It seems that the wreck & treasure may be buried under silt/sand and spread over a wide area in high currents. Salvaging that wreck would be a major engineering operation costing many millions$$.
 

Sea Hunter, First let me say welcome to Treasure Net. Second let me first qualify myself as I am not a diver nor have I ever done any serious research on treasure ladden vessels in the Oceans,Seas,Lakes,Rivers,Streams or Canals on this planet . The earths surface is compromised of approx. 80 water. In the last 2,500 years man has plied these waters and lost significant items of value. I am a lowly beach comber and my small fortune is just that and I have never ventured past the first sandbar. Math is an amazing subject and before you challenge the members here I would suggest you try a few calculations on your own. If the formulas escape you because of a lack of education please enlist the help of a friend or relative to help you . I think you will find your question and challenge totally preposterous and only made out of total ignorance or indifference to your own ability's to further your education. I personally find it insulting that you would challenge anyone here and would hope you would qualify yourself to this thread and the motivation for such a challenge. Maybe a different approach is necessary for you to achieve your goals here and your motivation . If it is a challenge you want then Prove the Statement wrong at the beginning of the Shipwreck Forum and I will send you a real piece of treasure from the ocean of which I know many more exist and if I was only so motivated to go and find, would bring me billions of dollars. Good Luck and Happy Hunting.
 

television special last night on great lakes shipwrecks said there are over 10,000 proven wrecks just in the great lakes area....not counting the unproven/unknown......only one area seems to be of interest to preservationist, an area called thunderhead, or thunderbay, something like that............just this one area has over 2000 wrecks in it, dating back at least 200 years.........visibility looked to be fairly clear also.................gldhntr
 

Hey Sea Hunter,

I love challenges. I love for my views to be questioned. It either makes me stronger in my beliefs or search more for the right answers. I don't take it personally by your questions. I hope you love a challenge as well.

I think this thread alone - and any minor research - would prove your challenge to be met. You stated yourself you might think a couple of billion. So case closed. Though you are way underestimating, 2 billion is plural. Billions.

And costly recovery efforts have nothing to do with "billions waiting to be discovered." Why does it matter whether you find a wreck with a surfboard (Kip Wagner) or with millions (Mel Fisher). Leave the recovery costs out of the challenge. It's irrelevant.

I am challenging your own challenge. Nothing personal - I'm just curious why you haven't admitted your challenge has been met.
 

Sorry, Sea Hunter, but I just read your caption after I posted above. "There may be billions waiting to be disccovered-but it ain't just sitting there!" Sounds like you've anwered my question in the first part.

I have to agree with you on the second part. Of course it's sitting there, but I think you mean that it's not easy to get to :)
 

Floater

Thanks for the welcome.

I am not going to respond to anything from your rambling post except your last line: if only I was motivated to go and find, would bring me billions of dollars.
If you know exactly where the billions are then please let me know. I can provide all the motivation and help you would need to get your billions.

Good luck.
 

Darren in NC

You know where I am coming from.

There may be billions waiting to be discovered but it is extremely difficult, and costly, to get at and recover.
And that is my point in a nutshell which you obviously understand. ;D

Thanks
 

I do understand you, SH. Just be careful in your presentation. You seem to resent the risk and cost. Remember that you are talking to guys who spend hundreds of dollars on a detector only to recover a handful of clad on any given day...in the hopes of hitting a big find. Shipwreck recovery is the same, only the upfront investment is in the millions. Apparently some people don't mind the risk ;)
 

Cornelius and Darren

OK-I take your point.Lets consider this thread closed unless someone has a desire to continue it.
 

Cornelius

One last thing. Do you think there is a desire/need/want for a forum aimed at purely professional salvors/treasure hunters?
Does one already exist?
 

Sea Hunter said:
da hobo

I am not challenging anyone. I am questioning the statement "billions are just sitting there waiting to be discovered". I think it is sheer fantasy.

And I am trying to figure out if I am going to get usefull information from being involved in this forum or am I going to get someone trying to convince me that fish is a treasure worth salvaging from a ship wreck.

I will repeat, I am not challenging anyone I am challenging a statement. There is a crucial difference.



1st of welcome, there is a lot of good info and people here to talk to.

now on to your post. most treasure is literally just sitting there waiting to be discovered. True there may be 1000 feet of water or 100 feet or rocks and dirt sitting on top of it, but it is still just sitting there. There has to be some sweat equity involved, in my opinion, for anything to be worth anything.

What useful info you will get is entirely up to you. There are many talented and informed people on this board and most know if they do not have the info at their finger tips, they know that with a bit of intellectual sweat equity they can find it. If you are expecting to find a treasure sitting all piled up in the desert, you might just do that, but the chances are slim. The only way to not have to invest that sweat equity is to be the first on the scene of a recent, like yesterday, shipwreck. After all Fisher even invested the lives of his son and daughter in law.


I personally think that billions , like has been stated before is a vast understatement. I saw with my own eyes this summer a fishing boat from the sea of Galilee that was found and dated to 2000 years ago. Is that a valuable treasure, bet your ass it is. How much is it worth? How about the cargo ship carrying amphora's that was found the Mederterain not long ago. No gold , no silver, but perfectly preserved with it's cargo. How much is that worth? Or a viking ship. Remember all treasure is not gold and alot of the precious metal and gems pale in comparison to some of the treasures out there. The knowledge and the recovery at times is the treasure.

There have been way to many civilizations on this planet, for there not to be treasures valued in the trillions and like the folks who say we are an arrogant species to think we are alone in the universe. I say that we are also arrogant to think we are at the top of the heap, civilization wise.


And, yes, fish is a valuable treasure/resource. But we are not here to find fish, we are here to find the lost history. And hopefully make a profit doing so.

I want to touch on something else you said "Do you think there is a desire/need/want for a forum aimed at purely professional salvers/treasure hunters?". A bit pompous? We, well myself anyway, may work at jobs to pay the bills, but I think deep down we all consider ourselves to be Professional. The only way to seek treasure 100% of the time is to be independently wealthy and once you find your 1st motherload then you can go 100% treasure seeker. Like the poker folks do, win 5 million and your life will change. You can do what you wish to do, as opposed to having to pay a mortgage, car, etc bills ,too. The only difference between a "professional" and a what ever you think the rest of us are. Is a bankroll.

Also a true "professional" on a hot lead would not talk to you about it, hell they might not even talk to their mother about it.

This whole board and the people here are a resource.


again welcome and do our self a favor keep your mind open and your ears, too.

HH Vrent
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