nahabit
Bronze Member
- Jan 10, 2006
- 1,127
- 7
what i may said- WOW 
679 Cannonballs found
- Thread starter Silverfox
- Start date
S
stefen
Guest
Cannon Balls vs. Mill Balls
Entering into this discussion, I tend towards Cannon Balls based on logic and here is why.
Mill balls will become well worn in the constant crushing process and these balls are consistently uniform, depending on caliber or size. (Unless, of course, these were mill balls yet to be used)
For instance if you found 100 Mill Balls, you would find that will not be uniform in size, and may vary from marble to cannonball size, none being the same. And again, these balls are consistently uniform.
Mill balls can also become flattened or worn into football shapes over time. Some can shatter and the broken edges rounded over.
Entering into this discussion, I tend towards Cannon Balls based on logic and here is why.
Mill balls will become well worn in the constant crushing process and these balls are consistently uniform, depending on caliber or size. (Unless, of course, these were mill balls yet to be used)
For instance if you found 100 Mill Balls, you would find that will not be uniform in size, and may vary from marble to cannonball size, none being the same. And again, these balls are consistently uniform.
Mill balls can also become flattened or worn into football shapes over time. Some can shatter and the broken edges rounded over.
- Thread starter
- #83
Thanks again for all the replies from you all. I just gave three to my Doctor who old collect guns and old artillery. He said he thinks these are probably early Spanish cannonballs, but he is gonna take these to Albuquerque, NM and hand deliver them to a professor to get the answer we are looking for. Cannonballs or Mill Balls.
Thanks again, Abe
Thanks again, Abe
Nashoba
Bronze Member
- Sep 20, 2006
- 1,400
- 18
- Detector(s) used
- Garret Ace250/Prospecter Bounty hunter(Backup)
Regardless of what they are, that is one heck oof a find there for sure! If they turn out to be mills balls I would be doing some research and lots of looking for a mine. Noone EVER got all the gold!
Congrats!
~Nash~
Congrats!
~Nash~
mickk
Sr. Member
- Jul 23, 2006
- 259
- 7
Hmm very interesting.
I know nothing of cannonballs, however I can offer some suggestions that may help.
How where they stacked when buried? Sorted into sizes for ease of use of just tumbled in?
What side of the shed were they on? defensive side? any hills around? any sign of mounds nearby? Im looking for the excavated soil from the trench you see. Wartime this would have been mounded somewhere methinks.
You didnt find any buttons etc, which makes me think they were not an active store, more like a dump in reserve. If they were being moved around, taken out added to etc then there would be the odd dropped button or coin.
How they were placed in the hole is really the key to what they were being used for.
I know nothing of cannonballs, however I can offer some suggestions that may help.
How where they stacked when buried? Sorted into sizes for ease of use of just tumbled in?
What side of the shed were they on? defensive side? any hills around? any sign of mounds nearby? Im looking for the excavated soil from the trench you see. Wartime this would have been mounded somewhere methinks.
You didnt find any buttons etc, which makes me think they were not an active store, more like a dump in reserve. If they were being moved around, taken out added to etc then there would be the odd dropped button or coin.
How they were placed in the hole is really the key to what they were being used for.
D
Don H
Guest
Hey,
Nice find.
This is my first post here. I found it by doing some searches for mining and ball mill supplies.
However, I also build historical replicas of cannons (although I mainly do 15th century through napoleonic). There's several things you can do yourself to help identify what these are. The first thing is to establish the age of the items. Based on location and your description of the building, I would have guessed an old mining shack with gun ports for warding off claimjumpers. Most likely late 1800's to early 1900's, but in an arid climate earlier stuff would certainly be around as well.
You'll have to sacrifice one of the balls....
Cut it in half and sand/polish the face. Etch for 10 minutes with ferric chloride (pc board etchant found at Radio Shack or similar store).
Your looking for silica banding and grain striations. This will help differentiate between cast and wrought iron. If they are wrought...hang onto them, you have something worth a LOT.
Most likely, you will not see any of the figuring. I can give you picks of what you're looking for if you want.
Next, heat one half up to a bright orange (acetylene torch or furnace is needed) and drop immediately into a bucket of some motor oil. Take a file and try to file one of the edges and note the hardness...ie, does the file bite or just skate across. If it bites into it, heat back to orange and drop into water and repeat the file test.
Now take the same piece, polish and etch again. Scan the surface on a scanner if you have access to one and post the pic or email it to me and I can help you identify the type of iron/steel. (different grades of cast iron get pretty distinctive grain patterns).
When you go back to the site, look for nails in the boards and pull a few. Are they round or square? Straight shanked or tapered?
The iron railing....take a section of this and polish a small part and etch with the chemical. True wrought iron with silica banding would indicate late 1800's or earlier. (BTW original wrought is worth quite a bit as well if kept in it's original functional piece!)
Did you find any other objects around? Piles of rubble? Sluice type wooden troughs? How about small 1-2" wide strips of iron? Cannon carriages had very distinct types of iron strapping. If you find any other small items be sure to keep those as well!
Most of those seem like odd sizes for Spanish cannons. The small ones are too small for typical Spanish cannons, but too large for cannister or grape shot. The large ones look close to a 12 or 16-lb cannon projectile. These were massive cannons. I doubt anything that large was ever located in that region. Civil War era mortars fired balls of that size, but those would have been hollow with a small fuse hole. I don't of any mortars being used during Spanish occupation. Have you measured them?
It would be odd that cannon balls would be left behind. In the Spanish occupation days, those would have been a fairly precious commodity. If someone took the time to take the cannons, they probably would have taken the balls also. What depth were they mostly at? Did it look like someone buried them all together, or wer they strewn out at all sorts of various depths?
Regardless of what they are, nice find! I'm by means no expert, just a devoted hobbiest!
Really cool forums you got here!
P.S. The funny thing is....I was looking for mill balls to use as ammo for my cannons!
Nice find.
This is my first post here. I found it by doing some searches for mining and ball mill supplies.
However, I also build historical replicas of cannons (although I mainly do 15th century through napoleonic). There's several things you can do yourself to help identify what these are. The first thing is to establish the age of the items. Based on location and your description of the building, I would have guessed an old mining shack with gun ports for warding off claimjumpers. Most likely late 1800's to early 1900's, but in an arid climate earlier stuff would certainly be around as well.
You'll have to sacrifice one of the balls....
Cut it in half and sand/polish the face. Etch for 10 minutes with ferric chloride (pc board etchant found at Radio Shack or similar store).
Your looking for silica banding and grain striations. This will help differentiate between cast and wrought iron. If they are wrought...hang onto them, you have something worth a LOT.
Most likely, you will not see any of the figuring. I can give you picks of what you're looking for if you want.
Next, heat one half up to a bright orange (acetylene torch or furnace is needed) and drop immediately into a bucket of some motor oil. Take a file and try to file one of the edges and note the hardness...ie, does the file bite or just skate across. If it bites into it, heat back to orange and drop into water and repeat the file test.
Now take the same piece, polish and etch again. Scan the surface on a scanner if you have access to one and post the pic or email it to me and I can help you identify the type of iron/steel. (different grades of cast iron get pretty distinctive grain patterns).
When you go back to the site, look for nails in the boards and pull a few. Are they round or square? Straight shanked or tapered?
The iron railing....take a section of this and polish a small part and etch with the chemical. True wrought iron with silica banding would indicate late 1800's or earlier. (BTW original wrought is worth quite a bit as well if kept in it's original functional piece!)
Did you find any other objects around? Piles of rubble? Sluice type wooden troughs? How about small 1-2" wide strips of iron? Cannon carriages had very distinct types of iron strapping. If you find any other small items be sure to keep those as well!
Most of those seem like odd sizes for Spanish cannons. The small ones are too small for typical Spanish cannons, but too large for cannister or grape shot. The large ones look close to a 12 or 16-lb cannon projectile. These were massive cannons. I doubt anything that large was ever located in that region. Civil War era mortars fired balls of that size, but those would have been hollow with a small fuse hole. I don't of any mortars being used during Spanish occupation. Have you measured them?
It would be odd that cannon balls would be left behind. In the Spanish occupation days, those would have been a fairly precious commodity. If someone took the time to take the cannons, they probably would have taken the balls also. What depth were they mostly at? Did it look like someone buried them all together, or wer they strewn out at all sorts of various depths?
Regardless of what they are, nice find! I'm by means no expert, just a devoted hobbiest!
Really cool forums you got here!
P.S. The funny thing is....I was looking for mill balls to use as ammo for my cannons!
OldBillinUT
Full Member
- Feb 7, 2004
- 153
- 11
This is a fantastic find ! Have you searched the greater surrounding area to see what the structure was associated with or looked at old land grants for that area ? The Spanish did use small cannon I have seen some examples. Some balls similar to the smaller ones you found were also found not too far from where I am living.
Redfoot
Jr. Member
That is incredible. WOW. That would be a great find. When you go back and need any help let me know.LOL
Now those are the kind of stories I like to read! That's why I love this hobby. Fantastic discovery.
You may want to invest in a mule next time out?
You may want to invest in a mule next time out?
DJ_Quinn
Bronze Member
What an awesome find! I never would have guessed they were grindstones used in mining, but that does make sense. They look like cannonballs to me. Anyway, I have only found one cannonball so far, and I'm still trying to figure out how to dig it out of the wall of Cahir Castle, were it became lodged when Oliver Cromwell attacked the castle in 1650. You can see it in the wall on the left of the photo:
Attachments
Ramapirate
Hero Member
- Jul 5, 2006
- 679
- 21
- Detector(s) used
- Primary detector is a Garrett AT Pro
Also have a Garrett Ace 250
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
Abe,
You gotta get those in W&E! That is crazy cool, and I'm pretty cool and a really good judge of crazy!!!
PS:
Hey Quinn,
I'm just taking a long shot here, but I bet the good people that own the castle would frown on losing that cannonball.
You gotta get those in W&E! That is crazy cool, and I'm pretty cool and a really good judge of crazy!!!
PS:
Hey Quinn,
I'm just taking a long shot here, but I bet the good people that own the castle would frown on losing that cannonball.
rush30
Jr. Member
that is just an amazing find!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DJ_Quinn
Bronze Member
Ramapirate said:
LOL, I suppose your right. I doubt I could get it out of the wall anyway. I'll have to keep checking old battlefields for one that I can dig out of the ground.
BTW, Abe sure found the motherload. That's such a cool find, and there's so many of them. Even if they are grinding stones, they are important relics that any private collector or historical museum would love to have in their collection.
Abe, you've got a lifetime of finds there!
MichaelB
Sr. Member
Abe, any update on this
??
??Tokomo
Jr. Member
Nicely done! This is one of the coolest finds that I have seen! Does this count as a cache? 
Wasabi
Hero Member
- Nov 7, 2005
- 920
- 13
- Detector(s) used
- Minelab Excalinbur II,White's Beach Hunter ID 300, Garrett AT Pro, Minelab E-Trac, Fisher F75, Tesoro Golden UMax, Whites 4900/D, Bounty Hunter IV, Bounty Hunter Big Bud
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
Wow you could probably enter the 679 finds in the Guinesses Book of World Records for the most cannoballs found with a metal detector.
That would be pretty hard to beat. You should look into it.
WTG
That would be pretty hard to beat. You should look into it.
WTG
One way to be sure is to go back to the site and look for a cannon. If they didn't haul any cannonballs out of there, I doubt if they'd haul a heavy gun (if any were stored there too) out as well. Just be careful digging, in case you spark off a buried powder magazine.... 
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