✅ SOLVED 44 Revolver Engraved Cylinder

villagenut

villagenut

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Oct 18, 2014
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Not dug by me but was given to me from someone who found it on a job site excavation. I know it is a 44 but that is about it. It is engraved with sailing vessels all the way around and has NEW MODEL 44 on the cylinder as well. There is an S below a star and a circle with ELG and another star below those letters. What kind of revolver was this and who was the maker? There is also a (looks like) 1755 on the chamber side, probably a serial number?Don't know how it could have come out of the ground in this condition, unless it is a reproduction. Not being a gun guy, I have no clue on this one. It will make a good paper weight if nothing else. Thanks vn

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NICE DROPPED SPEEDLOADER , WISH I COULD MAKE OUT THE DESIGN ON THE CYLINDER.
 

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Colt’s 1851 Navy revolver, 1860 Army Model and 1861 Navy Model all sport cylinder scenes of a naval conflict. If you look closely at the engraving on original Colts, as well as on some of the more detailed replicas, you’ll find the legend “Engaged 16 May 1843,” along with flags of the young Texas Republic and the early Mexican colors flying from the masts. This date, along with the nautical imagery, represents a naval battle in which Texas’ Commodore Edwin W. Moore defeated a superior fleet of Mexican warships (in both number of ships and their size)—a crucial event during Texas’ struggle for independence.
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I want to thank all for schooling me on this one. I would reckon that a repro is the ID. Like I said, it was found in the ground and doesn't look like it spent too much time there. Thanks all.
 

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The pistol was called the navy model because of the scene on the cylinder, NOT because either the army or navy used that firearm. It was a decoration Colt put on his pistols
commemorating the Texas naval battle that took place between the Texas navy and the Mexican navy, May 16, 1843. The 1851 had a navy scene as well as the 1860. Army model colt pistols also had the navy scene on the cylinder. An authentic Colt cylinder would, besides the navy scene, have a bar lengthwise on the cylinder, and in that engraved bar would be "Colts Patent." There would also be part or all of the serial number on an original colt. Each part of a Colt pistol had the serial number stamped on it, either all or part. Your cylinder is a reproduction from one of the modern thousands that have been imported in the last 50 plus years. The extra cylinder for a fast reload is a myth caused by a Clint Eastwood movie where he would replace cylinders in the heat of a gun fight. Replacing those cylinders is not an easy thing to do, and reloading the gun would be faster and easier. Besides that the cylinder should NOT be carried loaded and capped. Stop and think about it. You drop the loaded cylinder and it lands on a capped nipple, it's going to go bang and start bouncing around until it hits another capped cylinder, and that's going bang in a direction you have no idea where, and then it's going to do it again. The thought of having to have a spare cylinder is modern. The six shot pistol was such an improvement over the old single shot guns, those guys weren't worried about a rapid reload like we do today. Colt built the Walker pistol first, specifically for the Texas rangers because it's virtually impossible to load a muzzle loading rifle on a galloping horse in a running fight with the Comanches. The Walker pistol was very large and heavy, and fired a rifle load, and could be reloaded on a galloping horse. Then Colt lightened the Walker with the Dragoon model, then they came out with the 1851 and the 1860, which are just basically lighter improved models of the cap and ball pistol. Historical fact, Wild Bill Hitchcock carried an 1851 .36 Caliber Colt.
 

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villagenut said:
This just reinforces the fact that it must not be original. The one Charlie posted as well as others I have seen have way more detail in the ships and more detailed wording than just NEW MODEL 44. Colt would have had his name on it as seen in Charlie's link .
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Back in the late 70's early 80's sometime Colt came out with the NEW MODEL, which was supposedly a Colt cap and ball pistol, however it wasn't made in the United States by Colt, manufacture was contracted out to an Italian company I believe, but it had the colt markings and was more spendy than a Belgium repo.
 

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does yours have the same engraving, i met someone in fl back in the 80s
that did commemorative engravings Mmarks an all, guns were modern 50s 60s
he faked, he made a good living selling them as commemoratives, he passed in
90s i think heart prob
maybe do a rubbing of yours and post

does yours have the same engraving

attachment.php


villagenut said:
This just reinforces the fact that it must not be original. The one Charlie posted as well as others I have seen have way more detail in the ships and more detailed wording than just NEW MODEL 44. Colt would have had his name on it as seen in Charlie's link .
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Have never been a good pencil rubbing guy,not even back when we sent in to Lost Treasure mags with rubbings for ID. I can assure that my engraving is not even close to what Charlie showed in the pic of a genuine cylinder. No where near the detail in the water or sails...and no COLT marks either. This may be one of the examples done by that guy.
 

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I think Clint used an 1860 in this scene where he swaps out cylinders. (at 55 seconds in)

 

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In that scene that's not a Colt pistol, look close, it's a Remington with the strap on top of the cylinder. Here's a picture of an 1858 Remington.

1AA.jpg
And here is a picture of a 1860 Army Colt.

1AAA.jpg

To change the cylinder on the Remington, you drop the loading rammer, then pull the cylinder pin and remove the cylinder, which Clint does very smoothly in the movie. To change the cylinder on the Colt, the wedge in front of the cylinder has to be removed, then the loading lever is used against the cylinder to remove the barrel, then the cylinder is removed, so for a time the Colt is in three pieces, which would be very difficult to master. On the other hand, I've never had a thing to do with a Remington, so can't tell the difficulty of removing the cylinder. I have owned a number of Colts, both replicas and antiques, and shot the replicas. All this said, in the above Clint Eastwood scene his 1858 Remington could very well look like a cap and ball for the few moments we see it, but if we got to look at it close it is probably a Hollywood fake that shoots cartridge blanks. I've seen 1873 trapdoor Springfield's faked up to look like muzzle loading flintlocks, keep in mind that nothing you see in a Hollywood movie is real or true.
 

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I don't think it's a modern repro, for a couple reasons... The repros I've seen tend to have circular machining marks on the end of the cylinder which yours doesn't, second the little dots between the nipples I've never seen on a modern copy. The copies commonly available tend to be Italian made and I've never seen one with Belgian Liege proof mark. Also the engraving doesn't look like the modern copies either, mine has the word "Patent" with a number on it where yours says "New Model 44". I've had the cylinder out of mine comparing it to yours and there are a few subtle differences between them.

What I think you have is a cylinder from a "Brevette" revolver. Made in Belgium, and licensed by Colt. I think it's likely a period piece as I see wear and original bluing where I'd expect to, and honestly if you were going to fake a Colt revolver part, you'd want to fake an American made part as they have more value than the Brevettes. I've seen nice complete Belgian made guns go for a fraction of the price of an equivalent American made version.
 

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BosnMate said:
In that scene that's not a Colt pistol, look close, it's a Remington with the strap on top of the cylinder. Here's a picture of an 1858 Remington.

View attachment 1191471
And here is a picture of a 1860 Army Colt.

View attachment 1191472

To change the cylinder on the Remington, you drop the loading rammer, then pull the cylinder pin and remove the cylinder, which Clint does very smoothly in the movie. To change the cylinder on the Colt, the wedge in front of the cylinder has to be removed, then the loading lever is used against the cylinder to remove the barrel, then the cylinder is removed, so for a time the Colt is in three pieces, which would be very difficult to master. On the other hand, I've never had a thing to do with a Remington, so can't tell the difficulty of removing the cylinder. I have owned a number of Colts, both replicas and antiques, and shot the replicas. All this said, in the above Clint Eastwood scene his 1858 Remington could very well look like a cap and ball for the few moments we see it, but if we got to look at it close it is probably a Hollywood fake that shoots cartridge blanks. I've seen 1873 trapdoor Springfield's faked up to look like muzzle loading flintlocks, keep in mind that nothing you see in a Hollywood movie is real or true.
Click to expand...

.
I've owned a couple of the Remington repros and they are pretty nice pistols, with a bit of polishing work the cylinder pin will slide easily, and it's easy to swap cylinders. Straight out of the box there were a few burrs and the fit was a bit tight, I'd imagine that on an original the fir would be better
 

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BosnMate said:
In that scene that's not a Colt pistol, look close, it's a Remington with the strap on top of the cylinder. Here's a picture of an 1858 Remington.

View attachment 1191471
And here is a picture of a 1860 Army Colt.

View attachment 1191472

To change the cylinder on the Remington, you drop the loading rammer, then pull the cylinder pin and remove the cylinder, which Clint does very smoothly in the movie. To change the cylinder on the Colt, the wedge in front of the cylinder has to be removed, then the loading lever is used against the cylinder to remove the barrel, then the cylinder is removed, so for a time the Colt is in three pieces, which would be very difficult to master. On the other hand, I've never had a thing to do with a Remington, so can't tell the difficulty of removing the cylinder. I have owned a number of Colts, both replicas and antiques, and shot the replicas. All this said, in the above Clint Eastwood scene his 1858 Remington could very well look like a cap and ball for the few moments we see it, but if we got to look at it close it is probably a Hollywood fake that shoots cartridge blanks. I've seen 1873 trapdoor Springfield's faked up to look like muzzle loading flintlocks, keep in mind that nothing you see in a Hollywood movie is real or true.
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You are right. I have been a fan of David Perdesoli work in reproductions period items. I grew up building and shooting black powder. Bosn mate I rarely believe what I see in the movies my point is that it is not uncommon to change the cylinders out. Someone mentioned that it takes a little work
to get an extra cylinder to always work properly. That is true. That cylinder shown looks good to have been in the ground so long.The engraving is simple.
But I still like that scene in the movie:thumbsup:
 

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NOLA_Ken said:
What I think you have is a cylinder from a "Brevette" revolver. Made in Belgium, and licensed by Colt. I think it's likely a period piece as I see wear and original bluing where I'd expect to, and honestly if you were going to fake a Colt revolver part, you'd want to fake an American made part as they have more value than the Brevettes. I've seen nice complete Belgian made guns go for a fraction of the price of an equivalent American made version.
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I cannot find any information on a Brevete (not Brevette although it is often mis-spelled this way) .44 Caliber or New Model 44 made under the Colt patent of an 1851 Navy Revolver. All the ones that I found and know of were Brevetes made after the Colt 1851 Navy and in .36 caliber with most of these made by L. Ghayes and also 1851 Navy and a few other Models made by various Gun Makers such as Ronge in Liege, Belgium in .35, .36 and .38 caliber. Since Villagenut's cylinder is definitely for a .44 caliber revolver, it is unlikely that it is a Colt Brevete made on the 1851 Colt Navy Revolver patent. I can find no information on a Brevete being made on the Colt 1860 Army Revolver patent but that does not mean that they weren't made or do not exist.


Frank
 

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Pretty sure it is one of the Belgian Centaure reproductions, lots of info here on proof marks and such. 1960NMA.org
 

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NOLA_Ken said:
What I think you have is a cylinder from a "Brevette" revolver. Made in Belgium, and licensed by Colt. I think it's likely a period piece
Click to expand...

Great info Ken.
I'd never heard of a Brevette. (Among many other things.)
Some interesting posts on a recovered cylinder here. But then it's an interesting piece.
 

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