2nd Amendment Forum Threads & Posts

[Dano Sverige]

I am curious about your fixation on what I do and don't believe? I'm more than happy to share but I do find it interesting. Plus I thought you were just posting "ignore" after each one of my posts - or was that someone else?

Think yourself lucky you're not a Brit'! lol.

So TH...if you're so against drone strikes on American citizens without due process and conviction, how come you're so big on private individuals and school security guards killing American citizens without due process and conviction?

 

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[Chadeaux]

I fully support the system of government created by our founding fathers with its system of check and balances on the power of any individual branch of the government.

I believe that constitutional law is amazingly complex and that without a tremendous amount of information on an issue and an amazing amount of knowledge on constitutional law that one can not determine the constitutionality of an issue. This is why we have a Supreme Court and why is you follow constitutional law at all you will notice that most cases are NOT unanimous - correct? So even with our smartest constitutional judges they can look at an issue an come up with completely different conclusions - correct. If everything was so "obvious" with constitutional law this obviously would not be the case. I think it is wrong to oversimplify the issues before the court and believe there are simple black / white answers.

It is on ly complicated when you are trying to find a way to make it say something it doesn't actually say. Lawyers with agendas are the reason it is "complicated".

It wasn't written in legalese. That is what pisses off the lawyers. It was written in language the common man can decipher. No mysticism about it.

Lawyers are trying to become the new masters of the dark ages - convincing men that it takes a lawyer to read plain English. The Catholic church for centuries did not want the common man to read scripture. They told folks they would go crazy if they read the bible and convinced people to just take their word for things. That has a lot to do with why Catholicism has gotten a bad name over the last couple of centuries. People began understanding that in many cases, they were being taught exactly the opposite of what the scriptures said.

Just curious: Do you really think the dark ages were a good thing?

Ruby ridge was a complete tragedy but I would say that the fact it happens so infrequently in a country of our size is a testament to our form of government and law enforcement system. But anytime you have a situation with heavily armed people like RR or Waco you risk potential overreaction by law enforcement in my opinion. I wonder if you believe that being heavily armed helped the cause of the people at RR or Waco. It certainly was/is their constitutional right - unless they had illegal weapons?

Waco. The first shots were fired from OUTSIDE of the buildings into the buildings. There were witnesses, there is evidence, there is also denial from government. There was also no trial.

I was personally watching when the fire was started . . . the doctored footage is all you see anymore, but the fire came from the barrel of the tank. Wish I had been recording.

Do we need to go on? Tyranny is the term for it. Wonder who was Commander In Chief when Waco happened? What was his party affiliation?

 

[0121stockpicker]

It is on ly complicated when you are trying to find a way to make it say something it doesn't actually say. Lawyers with agendas are the reason it is "complicated".

It wasn't written in legalese. That is what pisses off the lawyers. It was written in language the common man can decipher. No mysticism about it.

Lawyers are trying to become the new masters of the dark ages - convincing men that it takes a lawyer to read plain English. The Catholic church for centuries did not want the common man to read scripture. They told folks they would go crazy if they read the bible and convinced people to just take their word for things. That has a lot to do with why Catholicism has gotten a bad name over the last couple of centuries. People began understanding that in many cases, they were being taught exactly the opposite of what the scriptures said.

Just curious: Do you really think the dark ages were a good thing?

Waco. The first shots were fired from OUTSIDE of the buildings into the buildings. There were witnesses, there is evidence, there is also denial from government. There was also no trial.

I was personally watching when the fire was started . . . the doctored footage is all you see anymore, but the fire came from the barrel of the tank. Wish I had been recording.

Do we need to go on? Tyranny is the term for it. Wonder who was Commander In Chief when Waco happened? What was his party affiliation?

Actually it is only simple when people either have absolutely no idea how constitutional law works or they are looking to use a "sound bite" for propaganda purposes.

I feel bad that you have so little faith in this great country of ours and the great system our founding fathers created. But in the end that is your constitutional right. Best of luck to you.

 

[Crispin]

Think yourself lucky you're not a Brit'! lol.

So TH...if you're so against drone strikes on American citizens without due process and conviction, how come you're so big on private individuals and school security guards killing American citizens without due process and conviction?

Dano,

You pose quite an interesting question here; and I might add, it is one that I have been struggling with over the last few days. It is relatively probable that your opinion and opinion's like yours are not particularly welcome here. Yet, in spite of the abuse you take you further participate in conversations. The same thing can reasonably be said for our friend Stocky. There have been several points in time when it has been insinuated that his opinions are not wanted. I myself, have at times, felt similiar to the priviledges afforded the latter of the aforementioned. This begs the question, why?

TH has made it clear that this forum is not to debate the 2nd amendment. This forum is designed to protect the second amendment and any infringement upon it. Both Stockpicker and myself are staunch defenders of the 2nd amendment; yet, we keep finding ourselves at conflicting, pivoting points with others. As previously made aware, you don't have the same horse in this conversation that Stockpicker and I do; but, you certainly have most intelligent, thought provoking data and opinions.

With all this in mind...why is there so much discord? It would appear that phrasing of the 2nd amendment is simple enough. You either agree or do not agree. Some interpretation is necessary for everything in this world; but certianly, that is not the essence of our discord. I have been angry, I have been saddened, I have felt honored, I have been uplifted. In short, I have experienced a vast array of emotions assoicated with my attempts to understand what has been laid forth before me.

The only solution that I have come up with is detachment. Our subconscious is a vast, shifty, spectrum of colors. To find one point and separate it out from the others is impossible. As humans, each of us has different levels of discernment. I now believe that we are experiencing a phenomenon of partial vs. blocked discernment. Those of us with varying levels of abilities have gravitated towards each other. The essence of the 2nd amendment forum stands united among us all; yet, discernment, prevents a united front.

When faced with such complicated endeavors one has only two choices. Abandon discernment and hence participation or attempt to fine tune discernment to meet sine wavelengths with others of different applicaple skills. For the latter to be successful logic and reason must prevail on all sides. When those basic, fundamental priniciples are abandoned madness ensues. There can be no victory through strength of force. There is indeed no battleground for which to fight on. Metaphorically, we are puppets piping, pineing, and waving.

Respectfully, sincereley, and applicably,
Crispin

 

[GMD52]

The second amendment states that we, the people have the right to bear arms,... and that shall not be infringed. PERIOD. That's not hard to understand at all. Our founding fathers took a whole summer to debate and conceive the Constitution for this new country, and the Bill of Rights were added after they saw that these were what was needed to get the document radified by the States. They are simply stated, not hard to read or understand, and our rights are forever guarrented under this original piece of written law. My question has always been, why are these laws constantly interpreted to fit individual situations as they arise? Our Constitution is not a document of prophecy, but the written law of our country!

We live in a world much more complex than that in 1787, but we don't need to constantly try and change the work of our Fathers, we need to simply apply the laws to today. It has been proven thoughout history that the retraction of the peoples rights has only crippled the society of that time. Our Gov't was formed to be; "for the people, of the people, and by the people", and not one of autocratic governance.

I can't understand how a document, with the integrity of the Constitution is so severely misunderstood, it's only hard to understand the words if you haven't read it!

 

[Chadeaux]

Actually it is only simple when people either have absolutely no idea how constitutional law works or they are looking to use a "sound bite" for propaganda purposes.

I feel bad that you have so little faith in this great country of ours and the great system our founding fathers created. But in the end that is your constitutional right. Best of luck to you.

I do have faith in the country. I have faith in Bubba, Larry, the folks down at the mill, the farmers, the sheriff's deputies, the military . . .

I DO NOT have one ounce of faith in the politicians doing the right thing. You forget, I work in the legal system. I measure my success by my wins in the courtroom (undefeated so far, but deal mostly with small civil matters) and the number of lawyers who hate me or fear me.

That being said, and knowing what is presiding over our courts and judicial system . . . and more importantly the lawyers who run our government ---I have absolutely 0 (zero) faith that anything other than scamming is going on by the majority of congress and the ENTIRE executive branch.

You cannot give examples of why I should trust them as a whole . . .

 

[0121stockpicker]

The second amendment states that we, the people have the right to bear arms,... and that shall not be infringed. PERIOD. That's not hard to understand at all. Our founding fathers took a whole summer to debate and conceive the Constitution for this new country, and the Bill of Rights were added after they saw that these were what was needed to get the document radified by the States. They are simply stated, not hard to read or understand, and our rights are forever guarrented under this original piece of written law. My question has always been, why are these laws constantly interpreted to fit individual situations as they arise? Our Constitution is not a document of prophecy, but the written law of our country!

We live in a world much more complex than that in 1787, but we don't need to constantly try and change the work of our Fathers, we need to simply apply the laws to today. It has been proven thoughout history that the retraction of the peoples rights has only crippled the society of that time. Our Gov't was formed to be; "for the people, of the people, and by the people", and not one of autocratic governance.

I can't understand how a document, with the integrity of the Constitution is so severely misunderstood, it's only hard to understand the words if you haven't read it!

Why can't felons have firearms? Where does it say that in the second??

 

[0121stockpicker]

I do have faith in the country. I have faith in Bubba, Larry, the folks down at the mill, the farmers, the sheriff's deputies, the military . . .

I DO NOT have one ounce of faith in the politicians doing the right thing. You forget, I work in the legal system. I measure my success by my wins in the courtroom (undefeated so far, but deal mostly with small civil matters) and the number of lawyers who hate me or fear me.

That being said, and knowing what is presiding over our courts and judicial system . . . and more importantly the lawyers who run our government ---I have absolutely 0 (zero) faith that anything other than scamming is going on by the majority of congress and the ENTIRE executive branch.

You cannot give examples of why I should trust them as a whole . . .

Not would I want to give examples. You are entitled to your opinion. And whether I agree with that opinion or not I acknowledge your right to have that opinion and treat you with dignity and respect.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Think yourself lucky you're not a Brit'! lol.

So TH...if you're so against drone strikes on American citizens without due process and conviction, how come you're so big on private individuals and school security guards killing American citizens without due process and conviction?

No brainer, when someone is firing a weapon at someone in a school you use deadly force to stop it, that is an attack in progress. Major difference between that and using a drone to kill an american because someone told someone they may be a terrorist...

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[Treasure_Hunter]

Use of Drones now under control of DOD... a WAR "thing"!

Rebel we are talking killing Americans on american soil that are not an immediate threat to anyone , that is not "a war thing"

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