1700s belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

[relichunters]

1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

So was out detecting with my best detecting friend Bob. We found a secret spot sshhh.

These two items were in the same hole together and were at least 12" down. Bob can verify it for you. You can stick your arm in and it'd be past your elbow!!

So anyways, there were 2 large roots about the size of a nickle that were crossed over in an X pattern.
Sadly the only thing we could do is chop because the item was underneath it.

Pulled out this beautiful belt buckle, it rings solid Silver on our machines, so I don't know if it might be plated?
For as deep as it was and in a field with lots of old history we think it could be 1700's. Maybe a pilgrim buckle? I am hoping someone can ID this better.

The wrench is broken a bit and is real bad condition but it is old no doubt. Has a S pattern to it. Any help?

OH and the buckle latch piece moves and works perfectly, you could put it on and wear it with no problems.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Treasure of Victoria Peak - Grab it through Amazon!

[RELICDUDE07]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

Most of the old buckles were cast in sand,and then in order to remove the extra brass /metal on the buckles they would file the extra metal off ,to give the buckle a nice finish look. Most of the old ones you can always see the file marks on the cast work..You are in the best place in the US ,to find stuff just like in the book..I think some was found in your area.If you read the whole book ,it will help you when you find something in the field... http://www.history.org/

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Minelab PRO-FIND 35 Waterproof Pinpointer Metal Detector for Experts with Tone ID & Adjustable Sensitivity - Grab it through Amazon!

[relichunters]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

I will browse though it. I also sent pictures to the historic district tonight, so maybe they can help

 

[utah hunter]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

1920's look to it in my opinion, still very cool to find. I have always been amazed at finding zinc pennies at 6 inches and a foot away getting an indian head at 2 inches. I look forward to more of your posts

 

[Moe (fl)]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

Very nice find!

It does not look 1700s period. It is not solid and the back looks more modern.

Below are some references for comparison. Regardless, keep searching that site!

Art deco brass buckle: http://www.goantiques.com/detail,brass-art-deco,861117.html

First photo is 1600s brass buckle (pilgrims?).

Second photo is civil war 1860s brass buckle.

HH!
Moe

 

[BuckleBoy]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

No need to be rude about it. But if its under thick roots, then it couldn't have been plowed and moved because the roots would have been cut. I checked it with a magnet and its not magnetic at all on any part of it. I thank you for the ID guess, but I will take it to a historic place and get a more in depth ID of it, because I'd really like to learn more about the type it is, and what kind of people used them and the design of it and all.

I wasn't being rude about it at all.


We all start somewhere. And I figure, if you're putting something in the "What is it?" column to begin with, then you're asking for help. If folks are already certain of what an item is, and are not willing to listen to others' experience, then folks should not post in "What is it."

The construction of this buckle is a 20th century method--the thin brass pieces made and assembled, held together with little tabs.

Old buckles, as Relicdude said, were sand cast and then the rough spots/imperfections/metal spurs were filed. By the civil war, they were stamped brass filled on the backs with lead to make them more durable.

I don't really know what you're searching for in a "more in-depth ID" of the item. Unless there is a company name marked on it, it will be virtually impossible to find out specifics.

And again, I assure you I'm not trying to be rude here, but my ID of the item is not a "guess." I feel very confident that any sort of historical organization will tell you the same thing that I have already said in my replies on this thread.


Now get out there and dig up some more Great Stuff to share with all of us.



Best Wishes,



Buckleboy

 

[BuckleBoy]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

Im sorry relichunter,i knew what its was. I just wanted to see what you may say , i started digging on lots from the 1920s when first i started detecting....Buckleboy has to tell everyone just how to look for artifacts all the time,and some may not need the help,just the time to search.....

I just trying to help.


I learn something new on this site every day.

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

It might be 1910 at the oldest. At least its complete

 

[relichunters]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

Very nice find!

It does not look 1700s period. It is not solid and the back looks more modern.

Below are some references for comparison. Regardless, keep searching that site!

Art deco brass buckle: http://www.goantiques.com/detail,brass-art-deco,861117.html

First photo is 1600s brass buckle (pilgrims?).

Second photo is civil war 1860s brass buckle.

HH!
Moe

That one on the link goantiques, looks close to it, so it is indeed an Art Deco pattern.

 

[relichunters]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

No need to be rude about it. But if its under thick roots, then it couldn't have been plowed and moved because the roots would have been cut. I checked it with a magnet and its not magnetic at all on any part of it. I thank you for the ID guess, but I will take it to a historic place and get a more in depth ID of it, because I'd really like to learn more about the type it is, and what kind of people used them and the design of it and all.

I wasn't being rude about it at all.


We all start somewhere. And I figure, if you're putting something in the "What is it?" column to begin with, then you're asking for help. If folks are already certain of what an item is, and are not willing to listen to others' experience, then folks should not post in "What is it."

The construction of this buckle is a 20th century method--the thin brass pieces made and assembled, held together with little tabs.

Old buckles, as Relicdude said, were sand cast and then the rough spots/imperfections/metal spurs were filed. By the civil war, they were stamped brass filled on the backs with lead to make them more durable.

I don't really know what you're searching for in a "more in-depth ID" of the item. Unless there is a company name marked on it, it will be virtually impossible to find out specifics.

And again, I assure you I'm not trying to be rude here, but my ID of the item is not a "guess." I feel very confident that any sort of historical organization will tell you the same thing that I have already said in my replies on this thread.


Now get out there and dig up some more Great Stuff to share with all of us.



Best Wishes,



Buckleboy

I felt that you were saying that I didn't know anything about relic hunting and I am nothing more then a noobie. Since there were many trees all around it, it wasn't likely plowed because of all the trees they had to avoid. But its possible that someone dug a hole and planted it there. We will never know for sure.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

Relichunters,

I wasn't saying Anything about you at all.  I was only talking about the buckle, and giving examples of pitfalls in thinking. Re-reading my replies above will bear this out.


I'm not saying somebody buried the buckle--but what I am saying is that sometimes things sink to curious depths because of mole holes, roots pushing down, the weight of the item itelf, and freezes and thaws.



I can't explain its depth--but I can tell you it is not incredibly old.




I hope you understand,




Buckles

 

[romeo-1]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

Listen to what BuckleBoy has to say...even though he was a little late on the draw on this one ...he knows what he is talking about...especially when he only needs to agree with me!

Sorry Bucks...

 

[BuckleBoy]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

Listen to what BuckleBoy has to say...even though he was a little late on the draw on this one ...he knows what he is talking about...especially when he only needs to agree with me!

Sorry Bucks...

s'O.K. Starting to think I should've stayed out of this one anyhow. 

 

[Monty]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

You said it showed up on your detector as silver. I hunted with a very good BH detector for quite some time and in my experience metallic items larger than a coin with corrosion on it would often ring up in that range. So it may be ferrous or brass? Monty

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

Art deco style... I think newer than 1920s based on construction with the fold over tabs on back, all punch stamped parts - machined.

Nice looking buckle. 1920s - 1970s.

Please don't yell at me - I read about the tree roots.

I hunt a modern ball diamond and pick up 130 year old .45-70 lead bullets less than an inch deap or exposed.

 

[relichunters]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

You said it showed up on your detector as silver. I hunted with a very good BH detector for quite some time and in my experience metallic items larger than a coin with corrosion on it would often ring up in that range. So it may be ferrous or brass? Monty

It's odd for 2 different machines to detect silver. His uses ID numbers, so I would guess copper or brass would be different then silver. But eh don't know

 

[GpSnoopy]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

Nice find, no matter what age it is, sounds fairly unique.

As to the depth, well, that's what makes our hobby so interesting and frustrating at the same time. We all kinda assume that objects are dropped on the surface and we find them later at a set depth based on age. But we have all run into the mysterious finds, recent objects down deep, old ones near the surface.

I have no idea how yours got that deep, if it was only from the 20's, but can think of lots of ways it might have happened.

This is pure fiction, and I have no idea of the geography and history of your area. You found the tool and buckle in the same spot. Perhaps, several decades ago, when the trees were not so large, someone broke down next to your tree, had to dig down a bit to get some support for a jack or to get at the part, broke the tool and ripped his belt or just the buckle getting it fixed, which fell into the hole. The hole got covered, and roots grew over the area as the trees aged. FYI, In my area, they plant spruce trees which are only 12 inches tall, and harvest them fully mature in approximately 80 years for lumber, sooner if it's for pulp, then replant again.

 

[relichunters]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

I will browse though it. I also sent pictures to the historic district tonight, so maybe they can help

Do more than browse. You are now a metal detector enthusiast. If you are going to spend the weekends scouring the woods of the Old Dominion for artifacts of the colonial era, you might as well start studying up today.

No need to bother the "historic district", as I concur on the I.D. everyone else has given you. Buckleboy actually empowered you with some strong knowledge about bias, and testing your hypothesis. You need not feel perturbed about it, you are getting information. If you listen and understand these concepts, you will be a better and more successful hunter.

Dive in relichunters. Time to do some research, and this time teacher will not be making you study!

Enjoy!

There is so few documents available to the public about this stuff. No map layouts of the area of what structure were there, and little history about it. Without having some big shot who has access to private information its rough to do.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

This may help.What area are you in?I will help you a bit, and give you some close up maps of the area.. If you show us the colonial finds you make http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/gmdhome.html

 

[relichunters]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

This may help.What area are you in?I will help you a bit, and give you some close up maps of the area.. If you show us the colonial finds you make http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/gmdhome.html

Can you find one of Charlottesville?

 

[White Feather]

Re: 1700's belt buckle? ID? Banner item?

Okay gang, the second item looks like an old transmission wrench. Some wrenches like this were used on very old farm equipment. I have one in storage from my days as a teen mechanic that came from my grandfathers tool box. My Grandfather died in 1960 at the age of 60. The old wrench I have dates to the late 20's or early 30's.