Destin Beach Find

[Nana40]

A relative of mine found this while detecting on the beach in Destin. He was there doing reconstruction work after a hurricane. As I recall it was a tad bigger than a quarter. Posted this here about a year ago but no one could give a definite answer as to what it is.... soooo....now that we have a new forum for these kind of items.....what do you think?

Thanks!

Nana

 

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[buscadero]

Nana: I can't vouch for the authenticity, but it looks to be a 1736 8 Reale, Minted in Lima, Peru. The assayer's Initial in illegible.

A real one weighs approx. 27g. Best I can do!


Joe


I Stand Corrected!!!!! TREZ is Right!!

 

[Trez]

Nana,
Shucks...
That be an copy I'm afraid.....
It is a cast coin of an origionally Lima 8 Escudos...the gold coating just has wore off.
Just the base metal remains......
Just my opinion...maybe someone else will take a ID of it.

Trez

 

[jeff of pa]

trez, were these things counterfieted, back in the days they were
in use ?

What I'm asking is,

I see alot of Ids here as "A Copy"

To me "A Copy" means Machine made for Souvinear Purposes.

and "Counterfiet" Made for False intentions.

I would consider Counterfiets of value as such,
while copys not.

 

[Trez]

Jeff, buscadero

Yes...they sure did counterfiets back in the days...to defraud and you can still find some good examples of them.
Nana...is this coin made of Silver? can you see any gold left on it? do you have the weight?

This coin is a copy and is not a 8 Reales / Lima mint, as buscadero posted.
P / V / A is found on Escudos...not silver reales.
PLV / SVL / TRA will be on the Silver Reales...

But, rather a modern copy of a Lima 8 Escudos for souvinear purposes, the gold has just worn off.
If I find a picture of this copy...I will post it for her.

Found one very similar http://www.sedwickcoins.com/l8e1736Nfake.jpg

Trez

 

[Nana40]

Wow! Kinda taken back by those results!

Trez...as far as I know...it is silver....looked like silver... have no idea on the weight, and saw no sign of any gold on it.

Here's the story.

A year ago, family reunion. Was telling of my new hobby, detecting. Relative stood up, took it out of his wallet and was showing off his find along with the above details on his find. He had questions about it, and I told him I would post it here to see what everyone thought. No one seemed sure, so I just left it at that and said nothing more about it to him.

Thanks for the replies!

Nana

 

[Mackaydon]

And if it truly were a 1738 Lima coin (gold or silver) the assayers initial would be the same: "N" for either Fernando or Joaquin Negron.
Don...

 

[Nana40]

HMMMM....what to do?

Do I tell him the bad news and spoil his special find? :P OR Do I keep quiet about it at the next family reunion?

Think I'll keep quiet.

Thanks ya'll! Nana

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Tell him to test the metal to see what percent silver content it is. He will find out himself. The truth hurts, but it is the truth.

 

[Peg Leg]

o you think that esting the silver content is a good test. We all know that silver reales do not contain the same amount of silver. Also the Gold escudos do not contain the same amount of Gold-close by there is a bit of difference.
I have a few gold items that have tested from 20.1 karat to as high as 23.5 karat.
Peg Leg

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

o you think that esting the silver content is a good test. ...Peg Leg

Not exactly Peg. I think this coin is pot metal and not silver at all. Even if it were, it should be gold...right?

 

[dasabighole]

If it is an early counterfeit it could be pewter. I found a 8 reale at a fort site in Ga. 1792-1806 it was pewter, then at another fort site 1806-1821 I found an 1818 1/2 dollar. These soldiers had time on their hands and were already makeing their pewter buttons and the indians were ripe for the picking.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Nana, did your relative ever have the base metal of this coin tested?

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

This is a pretty commonly found reproduction coin. You can see examples of this on e-bay.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Just noticed this thread. I see it has already run its course.

The guys here are really sharp

Any genuine 18th century coin or cob that spent the last couple hundred years in the ocean will show up looking like a lump of sea shell encrusted coal. The found condition of this coin almost immediately gives it away as a fake. True, it could have been lost in more recent times as a jewelry piece but it sure isn't a shipwreck find. I've cleaned more than my share of genuine shipwreck pieces of 8 and Silver Riders for others.

I'd just like to add this comment from the peanut gallery. Like someone mentioned in an above post, reales and early Spanish coins can differ in silver/gold weight.

I've seen genuine pieces of 8 that weighed only about half as much as some. The action of the ocean can really take a cob down in size and silver does corrode away. But weight is of some value in the initial testing process. At least one can start with it and hopefully rule out pot metal. And too, a silver or gold cob with excellent detail that's way off in weight from known examples of the same type is obviously a fake or jewelry copy.

Personally I'll take the copy shown here any day over another stinking memorial penny.

Badger

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Personally I'll take the copy shown here any day over another stinking memorial penny.

Badger

That is for sure.

I think this is the same token on eBay.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here is another example of this common souvenir replica..

 

[Zephyr]

Just an idea:
We should have a sticky topic at the top of this board showing the obvious fakes. It would make a handy reference for people to compare their finds to before posting another "Is this real?"

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Just an idea:
We should have a sticky topic at the top of this board showing the obvious fakes. It would make a handy reference for people to compare their finds to before posting another "Is this real?"

I have identified many cob copies and replicas here at TN. I dont think pictures would help. One thing I realized is that there are many people who do not recognize even an obvious fake from a picture. There are often times when a person does not even realize what gold or silver should look like, even if holding it in their hand. Each case is different and I myself enjoy helping another member make a positive identification. I am also learning about the many different copies, replicas, fakes, counterfeits and souvenirs. Some are much better than others. Sedwick has a list of some of the better fakes. http://www.sedwickcoins.com/fake_cobs.htm The more common souvenir copies can be found on eBay. I have also noticed that some members refuse to believe that they have bought or found a fake. This is understandable but maybe by reading these stories others may avoid being ripped off.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I just noticed that Sedwick has this one listed.


Click on Sedwick Treasure Coins on the top of TN home page,

Click on Modern Pirates,

Click on Fake cobs to avoid
Complete database of fake cobs.

Here is what he says: #F016 Lima, Peru, 8 escudos, 1736N
This one was sold by seller "estatedoctor" along with many other bad cobs ("private auction"--usually a red flag!) even after I notified him that they were fake. Note also that several cast fakes of this date are known, including some copies marketed by Disney World at their Pirates of the Caribbean gift shop


Thank you Nana for leaving this thread for others to see and learn.