LDM, OZ, & CALALUS

[Oroblanco]

Eric,

Anyone who has done any serious/thorough research into the Tucson/Calalus Artifacts can form an intelligent opinion as to their authenticity. Having spent the time and money to do my own research, I have come to the conclusion that the entire story is a fabrication. Original source is unknown.

Take care,

Joe

Have to respectfully agree on this one. Much of the Latin looks to be directly lifted from medieval sources post-dating the supposed dates on the artifacts, and Dr Fell whom examined them concluded they are modern fakes. One sentence as an example, from a far earlier source:

“Catilina in prima acie versari, omnia providere, multum ipse pugnare, saepe hostum ferire.”

(Catiline was active in the front line, he attended to everything, fought much in person, and often smote down the enemy.)

The sentence is verbatim from the Calalus artifacts, and appears in the Conspiracy of Catiline, which dates to around 50 BC. I borrowed it from:
1996: Geologist Confirms Tuscon Artifacts Fake, Caliche Formed in Just "Hours" - JasonColavito.com

As the title of that page also suggests, the caliche could be artificially formed by the simple use of quicklime, which hardens in just hours to appear centuries old. The stratum in which the artifacts were found, dates to 10,000 years (minimum) ago, far older than the 700's AD which they supposedly date to.

Also have to agree with Fell that the items were probably some kind of regalia for a local group of Freemasons or possibly Mormons, not necessarily intended to fool the public. I was a little surprised that Scott Wolter put his stamp of approval on the Tucson artifacts as genuine, which will likely hurt his reputation on other sites and artifacts.

I do not know who or whom made and then buried the Tucson artifacts, nor what their agenda was. I doubt that it was done with the intention of perpetrating a hoax on the public however.

Having said all that, there is evidence of ancient visitors from the Mediterranean in the southwest, from California to Nevada and New Mexico; not pointing to some colony that lasted for centuries as the Calalus artifacts claim however. Several ancient civilizations were thriving in the southwest too, lasting for centuries; perhaps they encountered the Old World explorers. We mentioned the chickens dilemma earlier; many of the tribes of the southwest were found to have chickens (a distinctive type of chickens at that) when first encountered by European explorers, yet these Amerindians ancestors were supposed to have walked overland while hunting mammoths in the Ice Age to reach America; are we to suppose that they carried chickens along with them, while chasing the herds of mammoths and mastodons? No, obviously there was SOME kind of contact with peoples of the Old World, long before the arrival of the first European explorers. The whole story is certainly NOT yet told.
Oroblanco

 

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[cactusjumper]

Roy,

You have posted some excellent facts and links, most of which I have the original writings for. Anyone who finds these "artifacts" and their subsequent (round-about) introduction to the Superstition Mountains interesting, should follow those links. Beyond that, a simple Google search for "Tucson Artifacts" will give you plenty to chew on.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Here are a number of comments that include Ben Davis in the conversation:

[h=1]5 Comments[/h] David Killick wrote on Mar 17, 2013 8:54 a.m.:

---

A couple of years ago Dr. Ken Domanik in the Lunar and Planetary Sciences Laboratory did chemical analysis (by electron microprobe) of several slivers cut from these artifacts, and passed the analyses on to me for comment. All of them are led with a few percent antimony. The proportions correspond well to the composition of the lead plates in lead-acid automobile batteries in the 1920's. Antimony was added to the lead to prevent "creep' - the tendency of pure lead to deform under its own weight. Since most lead deposits do not contain significant amounts of antimony minerals, this was clearly a deliberate addition. My conclusion is that the lead in these artifacts came from recycled automobile batteries.

bdavis wrote on Mar 31, 2013 7:54 a.m.: from originals.azpm.org

---

An examination of the specifics regarding the dig will show that the artifacts were not made from automobile batteries. That is unless the automobile batteries in the 1920s were made in the 1870s. You see a tree grew over one of the artifacts that was dated back to the 1870s. A thorough scientific study of the composition of the artifacts will show the lead and antimony content of the artifacts actually proves nothing regarding whether the artifacts are real or not. Perhaps the artifacts tell us an incredible story that is verified in the land and history of the southwest. A small work to start with to understand the history of Calalus is Arizona in the 50s, by Travis. There is no finer work than Bent`s work the tucson artifacts, to unerstand the dig.


b.davis wrote on Apr 1, 2013 11:22 a.m.: from originals.azpm.org

---

Sorry about the spelling. The book, "Arizona in the 50`s, was written by Captain James Tevis. The pertinant pages are from 132-137.

Kenny wrote on Apr 10, 2013 4:50 p.m.:

---

Anyone want to swordfight with a lead sword?
Ridiculous to think someone would travel across the world with such a useless 'artifact'.

bdavis wrote on Apr 11, 2013 12:10 p.m.: from originals.azpm.org

---

I dont believe anyone has ever taken the position that the artifacts were brought to America. In fact the history that is recorded on them speaks to events in the Americas. As far as the metallic composition of the artifacts, there are several mines in the area that have ore that could have been used to create the artifacts. Such as the Old Padre Mine, the Old Yuma Mine, and Goat Ranch.
Whether or not a sword made with lead and tempered with antimony works, who knows? Imagine the folks who created all of this were in a better position to answer this question.



[h=1]Comment[/h]____________________________________________

Anyone who has followed this topic knows who Ben Davis is.

Good hunting,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Garry]

Guys,

As they say “opinions are like navels, everyone has one” so I thought I would chime in with my take on the Tucson artifacts. I won’t go into the why I believe we are dealing with a hoax as that is a well worn argument and most have reached their own conclusion. For those who believe they are a hoax, that is frequently the end of the story. For me the interesting part of the story is trying to solve the what, when, how, etc. Therein lies the mystery and history.

Some argue we can never answer these questions but I believe a strong case can be made that we can identify the hoaxer(s), how they created the artifacts, how and when they were planted, etc.

We have motive, opportunity and even a written confession by one of the participants. We also have a plethora records, newspaper articles, professional references and an excellent research article by Don Burgess that was published in the Journal of the Southwest, Volume 19 to work with. Don’s article contains at least 90% of the pertinent references but there are a few areas that probably need to be explored to flesh out the story.

For those who believe the artifacts are part of a hoax and have a sufficient interest in researching and answering the what, when, etc., I would be very interested in their conclusions.

Garry

 

[Oroblanco]

Extra coffee alert!

Back again - muchas gracias Joe for the kind words, I could very easily say the same about you!

I don't wish to anger or insult anyone over the Tucson artifacts. I do not know who or whom created them, nor buried them, nor their reason(s) so anything attempting to address those issues runs into pure speculation. So if anything I said is offensive, my apologies and no offense was intended.

I can't see any ancient people(s) traveling from the Old World, using lead alloy swords or spear heads. The metal is simply too soft, even with antimony added for hardener, as most bullet-casting folks can attest. It helps, but not enough to use as an edged hand weapon unless in the form of a club or mace or projectile. IF the artifacts were intended to be an archaeological hoax, the logical items to make from lead would have been sling bullets, which were often shaped like a football, and could be inscribed by the owners. Archaeologists have been shocked to find ancient Greek sling bullets inscribed with terms like "take that!" Or spindle whorls, lamps, many other items could have been made up fairly easily (there is a regular industry today making fake clay "ancient Roman" lamps in fact) so the obvious question is what the purpose of these Tucson artifacts really was?

I propose that their intended function was DECORATIVE, or ornamental, to use in some kind of quasi-temple or actual temple; as to what group would be associated, I do not know the answer. My personal guess is some Mormon group, possibly a splinter group which was neither numerous nor continued to exist to our day. The link or perhaps key is in the mention of the Toltecs, which as you know is prominent in Mormon thinking about the history of ancient America.

One other point here but the source of the metal used for making the Tucson artifacts might have been linotype metal, used for newspaper printing type. It was possible to buy this (used) fairly cheaply for many years, melts readily and makes good detailed castings hence the use for making letter type.
For those convinced that the Tucson artifacts are the genuine article, along with the story they tell of a Roman/Samaritan Jewish colony in southwestern America circa 8th century AD, I do keep the door open so will certainly listen to any argument or view any evidence proposed to support it. I have read Covey's book (some years ago and do not own a copy) and also several articles supporting them as genuine, as well as participated in a somewhat lengthy and interesting discussion on another forum (LDMA) which raised many interesting points.

I would sooner discuss the possibility, even probability, of Old World visitors dating hundreds or even several thousand years before the time period supposed for Calalus, and not some massive colony/pseudo-empire warring with Toltecs and Olmecs etc. The Los Lunas decalogue (which I prefer to spell with a k, as was formerly correct) is one example of a 'calling card' left by visitors from across the seas. The sailing directions left near Pyramid lake in Nevada are another, and then there are the mysterious seven-mile long stone walls in California, which no one seems to agree as to who or whom built them, nor how old they really are.

The Norse sagas tell of voyages made to Vinland to obtain a cargo of lumber to bring back to Europe and sell - just as Diodorus and Aristotle tell of Carthaginians traveling to their "secret" land for lumber, gold, silver, jewels and fish. These types of expeditions (besides being logical) would not leave behind massive stone ruins of ancient cities, nor much of any evidence, just scattered graffiti as most explorers have left and the occasional artifact like the "Roman" stone statue head found in . I realize that our historians completely dismiss this idea (except for a few) although the current dogma of Isolationist theory will not hold water.

<copyright Romeo Hristov, borrowed under Fair Use provisions, from the interesting article online at:
Roman Head from Mexico >

It is somewhat of a waste of time to discuss such questionable items as the Tucson artifacts. There are issues with them that point to a modern origin. Unless some compelling evidence should surface to support them, I don't see how we might profit by studying them in detail. I am happy to re-examine the topic if and when such evidence(s) might be brought forward. I will go out on the proverbial limb even farther and state that I am 100% confident that solid evidence of ancient Mediterranean visitors is to be found in the Tucson/Phoenix/Globe area, as well as along the Colorado river. But perhaps this is all too far off-topic and should be in a separate thread.

While I was typing this up I see new posts appeared, and in particular Garry mentioned a 'confession' by one of the creator(s) of the Tucson artifacts. I would be interested in seeing that, if anyone can post it? Thank you in advance.

I have to sign off but will try to pop in later this evening. Coffee anyone?

Oroblanco

 

[starman 1]

Gentlemen,

While it is always pleasing to pursue discussions that reinforce what you already believe perhaps the truth can be better served by embarking on a journey who`s destination is not yet known.

A close reading of the Bent work will diffuse many of the arguments that have been presented regarding the so called planting of the artifacts by their discoverers. Pay particular attention to the discovery of several of the artifacts and the role played by folks who were supposedly planting the artifacts. As far as confessions go a close reading of the Burgess article will probably result in more questions than answers.

Keep in mind that respected folks in the scientific community believe these are the real deal and acquaint yourself with their efforts. One should not dismiss the efforts of Covey nor the beliefs of Hardaker that both believe the artifacts were not planted. In all fairness Hardaker believes the artifacts were not planted but were not a relic of a Roman/Jewish Community referred to as Calalus.

Perhaps as a starting point consider where there is agreement. Calalus no longer exists this we can all agree. As to whether it ever did should be for you an open question. True scholarship will be uncomfortable but it will open a gate that might amaze you.

As far as the relationship between Calalus and the Superstitons a good starting place might be to research the history of the naming of Battle Axe road and the reading of the small work Arizona in the fifties. Obviously having access to the Bent/ Mcgee correspondence may provide some information. I would pay particular attention to the Mcgee comments in one of her articles regarding the location of certain sites in the Superstitions that speak of an ancient presence. Also there are signs high up in Boulder Canyon that speak not only to the Tucson Artifacts but to the presence of a more ancient people.

Having said this if you are only interested in proving a hoax I can only smile and wish you well. If you are interested in finding the truth you may or not succeed but you will be better for the journey. For us Calalus, the Library of Oz, and the Canyon of Souls are very, very real. If what you discover takes you down a different trail that is fine. Go there in good spirit.


Starman 1

 

[starman 1]

Gentlemen,

One final point and then I will retire to the sideline. I have projects now that are too time consuming to participate in such a dialogue. Our interest in the Superstitions is for the most part over and what was important to us was achieved. In finding the truth acquaint yourself with as much primary source material as possible. For example in regards to the Burgess article. Take the time to read it and spend time understanding it. I recommend you read it after you familiarize yourself with the Bent work. It will help you detect the fallacies in the Burgess article. For example Garry tells us:

"We have motive, opportunity and even a written confession by one of the participants". I am assuming this statement comes from a reading of the Burgess article. What Garry perhaps should have also shared was the details of the confession. Anyone who takes the time to read the confession will understand my point.

I hope Garry will step to the plate and share the particulars. In many ways it is quite funny. I am not sure I would value a confession from the other side even if it was given by a wife who it seems was channeling for two dead men.

Well again good luck in your efforts.


Starman

 

[Oroblanco]

Gentlemen,

One final point and then I will retire to the sideline. I have projects now that are too time consuming to participate in such a dialogue.

Yeah me too - but have a couple of "final points" rather than just a single one. One - where is any documentation of any expedition departing from the Old World with a colony of Roman/Samaritan Jews? In the case of Carthaginians, Phoenicians, even Henry Sinclair, there is documentation at the start point side <Old World texts> of the story.

Two - did these colonists arrive in America, without a thing brought from the Old World? Like iron or bronze tools, coins, pottery, etc? In the case of others, like those cited in point one, there are corroborating pieces of evidence in the form of coins, weapons, pottery and even whole shipwrecks. Where are the seventh century AD artifacts like Old World coins, tools, pottery, that show this colony came from the Old World and was not "invented" here?

Three - can you explain why we have a verbatim passage from the Cataline conspiracy in Latin, on the Calalus artifacts? It looks like the creator of the artifacts was just copying Latin from various sources otherwise.

I hope you do not think me a hardnosed skeptic, quite the contrary in fact I am 100% convinced that people were visiting America thousands of years before Columbus came along, but am very far from convinced the Tucson artifacts are anything other than modern. I do leave the door open however.

Good luck in your endeavors.
Oroblanco

 

[somehiker]

Pretty much all of "Starman's" literary efforts seem to be an attempt to link the Tucson Artifacts,the Superstition Mountains, the Stone Maps, Spirit Mountain,and even the LDM to the "nephites" of the LDS...IMO.

There is a short animation on U-Tube which may help in understanding what he is trying to convey as not just the history of that listed above, but also who he seems to be claiming to be, as a "starman":

Google U-TUBE......"What Mormons Really Believe" to watch the video.

Those who have followed his posts as differing personages for many years will likely recognize the similarities .


The TA's and other "discoveries" are discussed in this paper:

http://www.bhporter.com/Porter PDF Files/Transoceanic Crossings to Ancient America. pdf

If the link doesn't work.....Google " Transoceanic Crossings to Ancient America.pdf "

The Google page gives several other results of interest as well.

Regards:SH.

 

[Not Peralta]

somehiker, thank you,interesting. np

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Only a matter of time before these type works start showing up in the supes ...

Domesticated horses from 7000 BCE anyone?

Saudi Aramco World : Discovery at al-Magar

edit, the pics no worky?
www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/201203/images/horse/horse-full-sm.jpg

www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/201203/images/horse/horse-15-sm.jpg

 

[Not Peralta]

somehiker, I don't think you could ever understand what starman has been trying to teach and share with his literary efforts on these forums,
maybe its not for you to understand, but I don't believe he has been preaching religion to anyone, that's how bad you misunderstand him and what he has
been trying to explain to people.every once in awhile people just need to listen to what someone is trying to say . I believe you are intelligent enough to know that the lost Dutchman and
other treasures that are written about are not the only treasures man has seeked or hidden out here in this land. a very good education for treasure hunters is listening to what is being
shared on the subjects at hand. you never know. np

 

[somehiker]

Not sure anyone could ever hope to fully understand the self indulgent and convoluted musings shared by many who presume to preach OR teach from a lectern of anonymity, Not. However, I probably know as much as anyone else who has followed Starman in this and most of the other LDM,Stone Map,and Calalus conversations these many years.If he has been preaching, it's only to a choir of which I am not a member. That his version of the ancient and obscure history seems to mesh with that of a particular group IMO, makes it all the more interesting than it would otherwise be.

Regards:SH.

 

[Not Peralta]

somehiker, really, ancient and obscure history, sounds like a good title for another Dutchman book. np

 

[somehiker]

Or an appropriate description of some of us Dutch Hunters, Not.

 

[cactusjumper]

somehiker, I don't think you could ever understand what starman has been trying to teach and share with his literary efforts on these forums,
maybe its not for you to understand, but I don't believe he has been preaching religion to anyone, that's how bad you misunderstand him and what he has
been trying to explain to people.every once in awhile people just need to listen to what someone is trying to say . I believe you are intelligent enough to know that the lost Dutchman and
other treasures that are written about are not the only treasures man has seeked or hidden out here in this land. a very good education for treasure hunters is listening to what is being
shared on the subjects at hand. you never know. np

NP,

Starman is another person who uses Ben Davis' computer to post his musings. Ben is a lot like you in that he claims many people use his computer to post the Calalus saga. If true, it makes for (reasonable) plausible deniability...... If true. You seem to have no doubts as to the truth of that whole story. Is there some evidence that has convinced you?

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Not Peralta]

cactusjumper, there really are no musings in what I do. I have been doing this a long time, I have been with the absolute best, and some of the worst, I take people for their word
until it proves other than what they say. in doing this type of stuff you have to do this, or you wont get any where. over the years I have made many friends and lots of contacts, I
don't jump off a bridge because others do it, theres always a reason when I pay special attention to some people more than others. np

 

[starman 1]

The library of Oz

Gentlemen:

Hello Roy,

I noticed your comments regarding the Latin on the artifacts, and since the Latin has been a major stumbling block for a number of folks through the years felt a response might be of help in provoking more thought and research. You stated in a post:

"I have to respectfully agree on this one. Much of the Latin looks to be directly lifted from medieval sources post-dating the supposed dates on the artifacts, and Dr Fell whom examined them concluded they are modern fakes. One sentence as an example, from a far earlier source:

“Catilina in prima acie versari, omnia providere, multum ipse pugnare, saepe hostum ferire.”

(Catiline was active in the front line, he attended to everything, fought much in person, and often smote down the enemy.)

The sentence is verbatim from the Calalus artifacts, and appears in the Conspiracy of Catiline, which dates to around 50 BC. I borrowed it from:
1996: Geologist Confirms Tuscon Artifacts Fake, Caliche Formed in Just "Hours" - JasonColavito.com"

I have to say I have always enjoyed reading Mr. Colavito`s comments.

First off I recommend you take a look at the artifact the Mr. Colavito is referencing. The artifact is generally considered to be artifact 4 a/b. This was the designation given to the artifact based on its sequence in the discovery. Is the sentence really verbatim? There is a distinction, a very importent distinction.

His comments regarding the Caliche forming in hours can be contrasted with experiments conducted at the discovery site by Bent that showed the Caliche that encased the artifacts was nothing like Caliche that could be formed in hours.

But back to the Latin. Consider the following comments that were made in response to Mr. Colavito`s contention regarding the Latin:

Abbot-Bishop David Michael link
03/23/2014 10:50am

"We are discussing a completely different culture and people group history than Europeans who had access to the Middle Eastern and Greek texts from before 1000 BC. The Nestorians (Syro-Chaldean Christians with Hebrew influence) were the primary translators of Greek texts for the Arabs under Islam with 7 colleges/hospitals located in the Sinai by the 7th century.

Roman Catholic Europe did not get access to ancient texts until the Crusades although the Hebrew Celts and Septimanians had these all though this period. The question is who copied who in this case? You assume the Calalus copied modern texts. It is just as possible European scholars copied the original texts also used by the people of Calalus. Linguisticcs alone is not a conclusive test of truth. One must consider the folklore of these people and that of the Native Americans about them. Consider the style of the crosses and its symblisms. Consider other similar artifacts that trace to a caucasioan common people inthe Americas in the 5th-11th century period also later klnown as the Anasazi. Consider the archtectrue of the pueblo builders. Thery are castles similar to those built by the Celts along with stone bee hive huts. Ogham is everywhere which is a lettering system that more Hebrew in its earliest forms. Saw marks are foundin Anasazi ruinbs as is dross left over from smelting iron buried in undisturbed Anasazi dumps. Calalus ruled over the AToltecs who are not a race but a artisan people. The Aztecs were the ones who removed the last remaining existence of this Hebrew Kingdom".



Bishop David Michael

Also consider what one of the original participants in the dig, Laura Colemen Ostrander said in an
a/p dispatch of 12/12/25. "Whence came the phrases prior to the compilation of the Latin Grammers".

Furthermore as Covey pointed out,"OL(the assumed author) obviously employed a copybook of model sentences from Cicero, Ovid, Horace, Livy, Sallust, and Vergil such as recurred in leaming manuals from the time of Suetonius to the 20th century". Pages 109-110, Migration and Diffusion Magazine November 2004.

So where does this leave us? A gate has been revealed to the past, whether or not we choose to go through it is a decision for each of us to make. We can stay on this side and say it is a fraud and move on with our lives or we can ask as Laura Ostrander asked,"whence came the phrases prior to the compilaton of the Latin Grammers"? The scribe who created the artifacts would give a clear answer. "The library of Oz"

This then leads to the next question where comes the word Calalus. The answer to that question comes from an ancient time when all of this continent was know as Calalus.

I hope I have correctly presented your position, a long flight.

Good luck in your research


Starman

 

[Oroblanco]

Gentlemen:

Hello Roy,

I noticed your comments regarding the Latin on the artifacts, and since the Latin has been a major stumbling block for a number of folks through the years felt a response might be of help in provoking more thought and research. You stated in a post:

"I have to respectfully agree on this one. Much of the Latin looks to be directly lifted from medieval sources post-dating the supposed dates on the artifacts, and Dr Fell whom examined them concluded they are modern fakes. One sentence as an example, from a far earlier source:

“Catilina in prima acie versari, omnia providere, multum ipse pugnare, saepe hostum ferire.”

(Catiline was active in the front line, he attended to everything, fought much in person, and often smote down the enemy.)

The sentence is verbatim from the Calalus artifacts, and appears in the Conspiracy of Catiline, which dates to around 50 BC. I borrowed it from:
1996: Geologist Confirms Tuscon Artifacts Fake, Caliche Formed in Just "Hours" - JasonColavito.com"

I have to say I have always enjoyed reading Mr. Colavito`s comments.

First off I recommend you take a look at the artifact the Mr. Colavito is referencing. The artifact is generally considered to be artifact 4 a/b. This was the designation given to the artifact based on its sequence in the discovery. Is the sentence really verbatim? There is a distinction, a very importent distinction.

His comments regarding the Caliche forming in hours can be contrasted with experiments conducted at the discovery site by Bent that showed the Caliche that encased the artifacts was nothing like Caliche that could be formed in hours.

But back to the Latin. Consider the following comments that were made in response to Mr. Colavito`s contention regarding the Latin:

Abbot-Bishop David Michael link
03/23/2014 10:50am

"We are discussing a completely different culture and people group history than Europeans who had access to the Middle Eastern and Greek texts from before 1000 BC. The Nestorians (Syro-Chaldean Christians with Hebrew influence) were the primary translators of Greek texts for the Arabs under Islam with 7 colleges/hospitals located in the Sinai by the 7th century.

Roman Catholic Europe did not get access to ancient texts until the Crusades although the Hebrew Celts and Septimanians had these all though this period. The question is who copied who in this case? You assume the Calalus copied modern texts. It is just as possible European scholars copied the original texts also used by the people of Calalus. Linguisticcs alone is not a conclusive test of truth. One must consider the folklore of these people and that of the Native Americans about them. Consider the style of the crosses and its symblisms. Consider other similar artifacts that trace to a caucasioan common people inthe Americas in the 5th-11th century period also later klnown as the Anasazi. Consider the archtectrue of the pueblo builders. Thery are castles similar to those built by the Celts along with stone bee hive huts. Ogham is everywhere which is a lettering system that more Hebrew in its earliest forms. Saw marks are foundin Anasazi ruinbs as is dross left over from smelting iron buried in undisturbed Anasazi dumps. Calalus ruled over the AToltecs who are not a race but a artisan people. The Aztecs were the ones who removed the last remaining existence of this Hebrew Kingdom".



Bishop David Michael

Also consider what one of the original participants in the dig, Laura Colemen Ostrander said in an
a/p dispatch of 12/12/25. "Whence came the phrases prior to the compilation of the Latin Grammers".

Furthermore as Covey pointed out,"OL(the assumed author) obviously employed a copybook of model sentences from Cicero, Ovid, Horace, Livy, Sallust, and Vergil such as recurred in leaming manuals from the time of Suetonius to the 20th century". Pages 109-110, Migration and Diffusion Magazine November 2004.

So where does this leave us? A gate has been revealed to the past, whether or not we choose to go through it is a decision for each of us to make. We can stay on this side and say it is a fraud and move on with our lives or we can ask as Laura Ostrander asked,"whence came the phrases prior to the compilaton of the Latin Grammers"? The scribe who created the artifacts would give a clear answer. "The library of Oz"

This then leads to the next question where comes the word Calalus. The answer to that question comes from an ancient time when all of this continent was know as Calalus.

I hope I have correctly presented your position, a long flight.

Good luck in your research


Starman

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. For me, it is too much coincidence that virtually every word (of the Latin) on the Calalus artifacts can be found in a Latin text book from the 1920s. The fact that there is no documentation on the Old World side of this story is another major flaw (in my opinion) for such an exodus should have been recorded and noticed. To point up this issue, for nearly every one of the other claimants to having "discovered" or visited America before Columbus, from prince Madoc of Wales to saint Brendan or the Norse or the Carthaginians, etc there is documentation from the Old World which records it and supports it. With Calalus we have nothing like that. Another issue is that the Calalus artifacts are virtually an "island" of evidence, there is no 'trail' of artifacts/inscriptions/DNA anywhere in the region that can be linked to it. There is evidence of ancient visitors to the southwest, BUT there is a huge difference in time period as well as the very language spoken by these visitors, it was not Latin for certain. I fear that further research into Calalus is likely to be a dead end, certainly not something I would propose as proof of ancient visitors to America.

Good luck and good hunting to you Starman I thank you again for your reply.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Not Peralta]

Oroblanco, the 1970's was a time of great discoveries, and a lot of great questions being asked of officials by old prospectors and treasure hunters and others,who at the time were living in or near certain areas,these questions were never answered,the only thing that happened was through the interior dept and blm, there answer was legislation through publication,instead of answering the people we will just run everyone off and we wont have any more questions asked and no one watching whats going on. np