Gold Washington Dollar cache: clue inquiry

[Old Dog]

Missed a conversion factor: 1,100 pounds of gold. In 80 pound chests= 14 2-man movable chests. I would say the chest would be about 40" long and be like other camp chests/strong boxes. Well, at least it is physicly possible to get them onto two wagons.

I thought the troops were paid in redeemable vouchers. This much gold I would think would be used to back up credit and pay off vouchers or paper money as they came in. You could have probably run a whole state's treasury on this type of reserve.

The chests would have to be rather small,
a chest 40" long would most likely hold half the hoard and be impossible to move.

If pure, a cube of gold 12"X12"X12" is 2000 lbs

Consider that gold is not very bulky and is especially heavy for it's size.

 

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[cuzcosquirrel]

I was trying to factor in what they could have used to store the money from what was available. If you consider the use of a campain chest type box, then you are looking at 40 inches long. If it could have been some type of munitions chest, then it might have been closer to a 24 inch cube. The 80 lb weight per box is based on being able to move it rather quickly with two men per box.

 

[Old Dog]

I was trying to factor in what they could have used to store the money from what was available. If you consider the use of a campain chest type box, then you are looking at 40 inches long. If it could have been some type of munitions chest, then it might have been closer to a 24 inch cube. The 80 lb weight per box is based on being able to move it rather quickly with two men per box.

Think more along the lines of tobacco or nail kegs.
(at least that size anyway)

 

[Connecticut Sam]

This story is total untrue. It started with a letter from a crazy lady to a Hartford Newspaper in 1951. I started treasure hunting in 1964, because I was a coin collector. France never minted those coins. Yes, there is a Bate Tavern in East Granby. Nobody never found any gold coins in a brook or anywhere else. This story is in Lost Treasure at least 2 times a year for over 30 years. This year, it must had been publish at least 4 times. I feel sorry for the family living in the Tavern. Every time the story get publish, more people knock on their door for information.The story was never publish in local or state history books. The family never heard of the story until they had read the letter in the newspaper. You be wasting you time and money if you look for it. If true, it would had been found many many years ago.

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

Several things indicate that the french did not give us any money in 1797.
First they were in the middle of their Revolution and starting in 1798 and running to about 1802 their navy was attacking our ships and we were involved in the Quasi War. A total of over 200 ships were captured and
sunk on both sides. That war was unique for two reasons. It may have
been the first large scale "undeclared" war and it for damn sure is the
only war i can think of where all the battles were fought at sea and none
on land. The Revolutionary War ended more than a decade before 1797
and any Tories were long gone by then and petitioning the Crown for restoration and compensation for their lost property. The rich among them
had removed to england and the caribbean islands. Most of the poor loyalists had removed north to canada. Outlaws who were branded Tories may have
still existed but they were mainly outlaws before the war and outlaws after the war and allied with the british for supplies and sanctuary.
As to the amounts there has always been a glaring problem with treasure stories. A robbery or loss is documented to have been a particular amount. The earliest accounts state that amount. Along comes Joe Anal Retentive who calculates and publishes the value based on the wholesale value of the coins. Next up comes Bob Lazy who uses the second value and again calculates the cache value based on the wholesale value of the coins. If this happens a few times a $1000 treasure can and does get reported as a multi-million dollar hoard. All of the facts are then adjusted to reflect the increased value. A satchel full of gold doesn't equal the reported amount so it becomes 13 barrels. Thirteen barels would not fit on an ox cart so there were five ox carts. In all cases you need to first go back to the earliest accounts and then make your plans. As a general rule I've found that any legendary treasure that can be found with the reported facts has been found. If you get new facts it is worth a search - especially if they lead you to an area where no one else has searched. Since you report the find of small numbers of coins in a particular spot it would not be foolish to go to those spots and coin shoot. You may get lucky and find a couple of coins. siegfried schlagrule

 

[Connecticut Sam]

As I stated before. France never minted these gold coin for themselves or for our country. The story of 13 wagons load of gold coins is untrue.
No single coins were found. The Bates family who live in the tavern never heard of the story until they read the letter in the Harford newspaper. Don't waste your time or money looking for nothing.

Connecticut Sam

 

[Curtis]

First thing is give it up on the 1799 guys! It had to be 1779!
Like a few have pointed out....the WAR was over by 1799 and if Washington mentions the loss of the payroll (would like to see the citation on that) then it happened! The man’s writings are in several volumes of books at major university libraries...look it up. Or whoever is claiming to have found it PLEASE tell us where you found it.
Now about this letter the guy wrote back to his mom….any documentation of this? Can you get a copy? Seems like this is just a little questionable, I would have sent someone back to get the gold if I was afraid of being arrested even if the first attempt failed! WE need to document the source of the letter.
Just for general references: In the Revolutionary war era the American paper money lost value, it got so low that one hundred dollars in American (paper) money was only worth one Spanish Silver dollar! Even a simple thing like a bushel of corn took one hundred and fifty dollars paper to purchase! Remember the old slogan, “it isn’t worth a Continental”? They did authorize the minting of a continental dollar in silver, pewter, and brass. There was no American mint at that time…each state produced their own, so it had to come from someone (other country). The establishment of the American mint was in 1782, but it was years until it came about. So if the coins we are talking about were for the Americans it is no doubt they were of French origin. Something had to be done to improve the creditability of the Americans financially, so the idea of the gold shipment seem plausible to me. These were troublesome times and with both the American and shortly later the French in revolution, the main matters of the day were survival of the revolution, not always money related.
I was thinking that there may be a couple of other scenarios, if the streambed was rocky and not over 3-4 feet deep they may have drove the wagons up or down stream. Remember streams were used just like roads in those days and really even into the modern age in some areas. They may have unloaded at a seclude barn, buried the coins under the dirt floor of the barn, and then drove the wagons back….hit the road, divided up, run the horses & wagons off and skedaddled. Or maybe you unload and hand carry the boxes of coins into the woods, put them into a hole or and bury them….the problem with that is the top of the ground disturbance. So you find a shallow cave, (preferably under a cliffy area) place the stuff in it, stack rocks across the front, and then throw dirt over the rocks. This makes a natural looking occurrence. I found where some Indians did this in KY when they had buried 4 kegs of money in the late 1700s, (however they came back or someone found it before I did) but the stacked rocks with dirt are still there.
Does anyone have the local Indian history? The one part of the legend that states the group of guys got together to retrieve the coins, but were killed by Indians…..is that plausible….how does it fit into local history? Is there record of the killings? If not, were the Indians causing problems in that area? We know about the French and Indian war, and how the British used them against the Americans….does it fit time wise? Indians were not always roaming the woods just killing settlers, some areas were trouble free.
Somehow I think this one could be true. The offer of the $100 for a picture needs to be not only on this forum, but in the newspaper of the area the coins were found in. Make an offer of $50 to go to the person who can tell you who found the coins….after you confirm it of course.

 

[cw0909]

from
Topic #7 Posted Nov 23, 2006, 10:39:48 AM
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,58355.msg413928.html#msg413928

Great comments thus far. According to an article rom Lost treasure, Gen George Washington stated that the lost
Gold coins were French and were borrowed to support the plight of the colonials and GW. The war officially ended
in 1781 but was offically over in 1783.

Also, the French were very supportive of the colonists and were against the British. Don't know what a French
gold coin would look like from back then. Tom
==============================================================
the story sounded interesting, i thought id take a look at it, here is some stuff i found

i just glanced, through some of the pgs, at this link concerning the American Revolution and did not
see any mention in Georges papers, of gold coin borrowed from france, does not mean its not there,
at least its a start point, to see if there is a mention of that fact. good luck with the reading
maybe some of this info will help you piece it together

some of the pgs are blank, and some are not, in the,George Washington, Revolutionary War Expense Account,
i only checked a few, some are hard to read
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query

in case link doesnt work, my search was........george washington revolutionary war.........
at this link
http://www.loc.gov/index.html

which took me here
http://www.loc.gov/fedsearch/metasearch/?cclquery=george+washington+revolutionary+war&search_button=GO#query=(george%20washington%20revolutionary%20war)&filter=pz:id=lcweb|ammem|catalog|ppoc|thomas

from above link click, George Washington, Revolutionary War Expense Account
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query


and i found a wiki disscusion about france and revolutionary war, they were not keen on loaning $$$,
but plenty of ammo, and soldiers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in_the_American_Revolutionary_War

could it be that the found coins were just some stray lost pocket spill from that era

coins from that era
http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoinContents/Contents12.html

Washington Military Bust Die Variety Charts
http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoinContents/DieCharts.html#Wdrapeddies

THE HISTORY OF THE EARLY UNITED STATES MINT -
1781 to 1791 by Ron Guth/ bottom of pg has more date links
http://www.coinfacts.com/mint_history/mint_history_1781_1791/mint_history_1781_1791.htm

edited i forgot another link to George Washington, Revolutionary War Expense Account
has links to these pgs too
General Account Books | Colonial Military Financial Accounts | George Washington's Cash Memorandum Books |
Revolutionary War Financial Accounts | Presidency and Retirement Period Financial Accounts
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gwhtml/gwseries5.html

if you google George Washington, Revolutionary War Expense Account
you get some interesting stuff too

 

[tommyl]

Re: Gold Washington Dollar cache: reply to CT Danny and Siegfried Schlagrule

Sorry you guys appear convinced that this treasure story is untrue. Maybe not enough research on your part. I believe it is real and so do many others. Here is a taste for you........ Check out this website: http://www.marxists.org/archive/beard/history-us/ch06.htm

Here is an excerpt from History of the United States. Charles Beard, Mary Beard, 1921

CHAPTER VI
THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION
"The Finances of the Revolution"
When the Revolution opened, there were thirteen little treasuries in America but no common treasury, and from first to last the Congress was in the position of a beggar rather than a sovereign. Having no authority to lay and collect taxes directly and knowing the hatred of the provincials for taxation, it resorted mainly to loans and paper money to finance the war. “Do you think,” boldly inquired one of the delegates, “that I will consent to load my constituents with taxes when we can send to the printer and get a wagon load of money, one quire of which will pay for the whole?"

Paper Money and Loans. – Acting on this curious but appealing political economy, Congress issued in June, 1776, two million dollars in bills of credit to be redeemed by the states on the basis of their respective populations. Other issues followed in quick succession. In all about $241,000,000 of continental paper was printed, to which the several states added nearly $210,000,000 of their own notes. Then came interest-bearing bonds in ever increasing quantities. Several millions were also borrowed from France and small sums from Holland and Spain. In desperation a national lottery was held, producing meager results. The property of Tories was confiscated and sold, bringing in about $16,000,000. Begging letters were sent to the states asking them to raise revenues for the continental treasury, but the states, burdened with their own affairs, gave little heed.

Not enough boys......How about this piece taken from a book called Newgate in Connecticut 1st edition written around 1830 by Richard Phelps.of East Granby CT...............

"Lemuel Bates was a captain during the Revolution, and participated in several battles. For many years Captain Bates kept a tavern in the north part of East Granby, in the house where his grandson, "Win. H. Bates, now lives. The merry old gentleman was fond of fighting his battles over again by relating his reminiscences of those interesting times. After the surrender of Burgoyne, with his once splendid army of 10,000 men, at Saratoga, several detachments of the British prisoners of war were marched through East Granby, and a portion of them bivouacked on the premises of Captain Bates. " The British had plenty of money," said Captain Bates, " to pay for the best we had; and my folks were kept busy in distributing pitchers and pails of cider among them. At night all the floors in my tavern were spread over with them."
Another portion of the British captives encamped on the premises of Captain Roswell Phelps,* near the centre of East Granby. These prisoners of war were an interesting sight, and excited an inspiring curiosity in all this region.
At one time several teams laden with specie, en route from Boston to Philadelphia, halted for the night at Captain Bates's. The specie had been borrowed from France; which nation was then fraternally aiding us in our struggle. It was enclosed in strong plank boxes, drawn by thirteen teams, well guarded; and amounted to several millions of dollars"

Hope you get the drift of "Specie" and if still not convinced leave it for the rest of us to find.
Terrible Tommy

 

[cw0909]

tommyl since you found a reference to bates and tavern and the story of the gold and
since the article was wrote in 1921, could it be the story had been embelshised over the years,
maybe there is a treasure just not that sum
your article
http://www.marxists.org/archive/beard/history-us/ch06.htm


found a note here for lemuel bates, and a couple of other people under his command
might help with your research

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~genealogy123/tree01-07-2003/np5.html
Note for: Hezekiah Holcomb, 27 JAN 1726/27 - ABT. 1794 Index
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Database: Daughters of the American Revolution Lineage Books (152 Vols.)
Combined Matches: 3
The National Society of the Daughters of the American Revolution Volume 17
page 40
Mrs. Harriet Matilda Merwin Briggs.
DAR ID Number: 16100
Born in Granby, Connecticut.
Wife of Fred L. Briggs.
Descendant of Capt. Lemuel Bates, Capt. Hezekiah Holcomb, Hezekiah Holcomb, Jr., Phineas Griswold and Peter Van Dyke.
Daughter of Henry Merwin and Julia Matilda Holcomb, his wife.
Granddaughter of Lemuel Cicero Holcomb (1796-1880) and Julia Griswold, his wife; Jesse Merwin and Jane Van Dyke, his
wife.
Gr.-granddaughter of Hezekiah Holcomb, Jr., and Dorothy Bates, his first wife; Peter Van Dyke and Maria Youland, his
wife; Phineas Griswold and Vashte Bates, his wife.
Gr.-gr.-granddaughter of Hezekiah Holcomb and Susanna Alderman, his wife; Lemuel Bates and Deborah Lewis, his wife.
Lemuel Bates, (1729-1820), was appointed ensign of the Alarm company, Eighteenth regiment, 1777, and captain, 1778.
He was born in East Granby, Conn., where he died.
Hezekiah Holcomb, (1726-94), commanded a company in the Eleventh regiment of militia in the New York campaign, 1776.
He was born in Simsbury, Conn., where he died.
Also No. 14578.
Hezekiah Holcomb, Jr., (1750-1820), was a member of the Alarm company from Simsbury, 1779, under Capt. Lemuel Bates.
He was born in Simsbury, Conn., and died in Granby.
Phineas Griswold, (1750-89), served as private in Capt. David Barber's company, First regiment militia. He re-enlisted
, 1777, for three years in Capt. John Harmon's company on duty in New York and was detailed to guard Burgoyne's prisoners.
He was born in Windsor, Conn., where he died.
Peter Van Dyke, (1767-1810), served as a drummer boy in the New York levies, 1780, in Capt. Isaac Bogart's company for
the defense of the frontier. He was born in Kinderhook, N. Y., where he died.

a list of lemuel bates
http://www.myheritage.com/FP/smart-research-search.php?offset=0&l=bates&f=lemuel

Lemuel Bates more info must be a member
http://www.myheritage.com/person-4002977_1_440903/Lemuel-Bates

login join My Heritage Genealogy
http://www.myheritage.com/
......................................................................
if there is a treasure, its not in the mines
http://books.google.com/books?id=yx...necticut++Richard+Phelps#v=onepage&q=&f=false

more books
http://books.google.com/books?q=Newgate+in+Connecticut++Richard+Phelps&btnG=Search+Books
==============================================================
stolen from revolutionary war troops, IE:2 million dollar, not sure they had enough money,
all in one place, at any given time, maybe there is a treasure just not that sum

The Men Behind the American Revolution: Robert Morris by: Rick Brainard

"He slashed all governmental and military expenditures, personally purchased army and navy supplies, tightened
accounting procedures, prodded the states to fulfill quotas of money and supplies, and when necessary strained
his personal credit by issuing notes over his own signature or borrowing from friends

Morris used in part, the above method and a loan from France to fund Washington's Yorktown campaign. He used a
portion of this loan and his own personal fortune to fund, and charter the First Bank of North America that same year.
http://www.history1700s.com/articles/article1141.shtml
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Depreciation of Paper Currency during the Revolution

Gold and/or silver coins, often referred to as "specie", were commonly used as payment for goods or services rendered
in the colonial period. The problem with specie was that each Colony rated the coins differently and there were a
wide variety of coins in circulation: English coins, French coins, Spanish coins, Portuguese coins, etc…. Because
colonial authorities frequently revised exchange rates to encourage and discourage the use of certain coins in
circulation, there was a lack of consistency in determining the value of foreign currency among the colonies. These
issues were minimal in comparison to the ones paper money would cause during the Revolution.
http://mybrothersamisdead.historyofredding.com/my-brother-sam-is-dead_money.htm

 

[cw0909]

i was thinking if bates, had anything to do with the gold, maybe the horse in the field was a ruse
and maybe,its on his property,if you wanted to search there you have to talk to, Daryl Hall, of hall and oates
or klemm real estate
http://www.passport-mag.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20204656&BRD=2699&PAG=461&dept_id=672335&rfi=6

update on bates tavern, Daryl Hall of hall and oates owns it

The Bates Tavern was built about 1770 in East Granby, Conn., on the main road between Hartford and Springfield, Mass.
The innkeeper's name was Lemuel Bates, and he and his descendants lived in the house for 230 years or so, until Kay,
the last of the Bates family, died recently. Her friend and inheritor Emily Aldrich was intent on finding someone to
restore the house-as Kay fervently wished-rather than tearing it down. She was delighted when Mr. Hall stepped in and
bought it.
History has it that the tavern always had a gray cat on the premises. Not long after renovations began on Mr. Hall's
land, a gray cat appeared. The Hall team adopted the fortunate feline, which became the "haunted" cat referred to by
Mr. Black.
The Oliver Hanchett house was found in Suffield, Conn., a few miles from Granby. It is a slightly later and somewhat
grander house, with two fireplace stacks and a spacious center hall. In researching the histories of the two houses,
Mr. Hall found that Oliver Hanchett's daughter Rachel married one of Lemuel Bates' sons and lived the rest of her
life in the Bates Tavern. Her son William Hanchett Bates inherited the house. "So these houses truly belong together,
" said Mr. Hall.
Renovations have been under way for several years, and although Mr. Hall, two cats and several house guests are
happily ensconced there, the work isn't finished. On the day of the interview-a crisp and sunny one-there were special
ist workers everywhere, clearing land for a future sheep pasture, sprucing up an outbuilding, fashioning walls, and
building a fire pit. Even when the Dutchess County project is finished, the beat will continue.

more
http://www.luxist.com/2009/07/19/daryl-halls-flint-hill-estate-of-the-day/
nice photo gallery at the link

Daryl Hall's Flint Hill, Estate of the Day by Deidre Woollard (RSS feed) Jul 19th 2009 at 1:01PM

Hall created one massive home by combining two homes, one from 1770 and one from 1786 (the 1786 Oliver Hanchett House
from Suffield, Connecticut and the nearby 1770 Bates Tavern of East Granby, Connecticut) which were disassembled, moved
from their original locations and combined on the home. The homes are joined by a huge great room that features a
catwalk. The large home has over 24 rooms including a huge country kitchen, numerous parlors, sitting rooms and
libraries and the original tavern room.

great Aerial Views
http://drewhingson.com/flintHillGallery.html

 

[Connecticut Sam]

Great comments of #100. Was Bates Tavern taken down and move? If true, it is a shame. The Bates tavern was a great building. I was inside. What buildings are there now? The story is still untrue. The family sold the farm land across the street many years ago. Thanks for the latest news.

 

[cw0909]

http://books.google.com/books?id=rV...AEwAg#v=onepage&q=granby bates tavern&f=false

Buried treasures of New England: legends of hidden riches, forgotten war ... By W. C. Jameson

the story of the washington dollars starts on pg 146

 

[DFX DAVE in M.D.]

Quit talking about the Cache and start detecting for it. I like the advice of Les. Things run downhill. Find a rut leading down to the brook and detect it good near that Tavern. It would have te be near a wagon trail, if it can still be located.

 

[Peerless67]

I agree with the great comments of #88, story not true. no gold coins minted by France at that time.

Thanks for the heads up Dan I can see you are a great researcher. I will forward your info on to the owners of these French GOLD coins and tell them they are fake.

Francs
The first franc was a gold coin struck in 1360 when King John was freed. It showed King John in armour on horseback, and was known as a franc à cheval. The word franc meaning free, but also referring to the Frankish people. Franc coins fell into disuse after 1642, until they were revived during the revolutionary period in 1795, when a decimal currency system was introduced. As far as we are aware this was the world's first decimal currency system, although the Americans had proposed it in 1781.


Obverse and reverse of 1786 French Gold Coin - Showing Louis Dor

 

[NHBandit]

I became a treasure hunter after being a coin collector. No country back then, had that much coins, copper, silver, or gold. I do not want people wasting their time and work, looking for treasures that are not there.

Did you ever think that maybe for some guys the looking is as much fun as the finding ? Sorry but you & your twin Danny are beginning to sound like a broken record. I am even beginning to wonder if you're both the same guy with 2 different usernames... As far as the theory that it's not possible because France didn't have that many coins what do you base that theory on ? What was the exchange rate for a French gold Franc at that time ? $10 ? $20 ? Is it possible that 2 million in French Francs is equal to 100,000 coins ? Are you expecting us to believe that France didn't have access to that many coins ? Maybe over the years the amount has been exagerated. Maybe it's only 10,000 coins. Still worth a huge amount of money with gold at $1200 an ounce these days. Dare to dream my friend.. How about posting some of the stuff you've found or some of the cool coins you have in your collection.. Or maybe the 2 of you could hook up and get away from the computer & go out and look for your own version of treasure, whether that's poking around in a coin shop, looking for a huge hoard, or just seeing what's buried around an old cellar hole. Here in NH the ground is thawing out & Spring is right around the corner. I imagine it's the same in CT. You know, something besides all the negative stuff... Just a thought. Have a good day.

 

[Connecticut Sam]

Any new info about this subject?

 

[Chicken4U2]

Any new info about this subject?

For guys that know this story is untrue, you and your brother from another mother sure do seem very interested in other folk's research on the subject. Seems like you two are trying really hard to talk everybody else out of looking for it...

 

[Frankn]

I read the story, but I admitt I did not read all the posts. I might be repeating but here is some basic theory. The location of the wagon is to throw off the persusers. the loot is further out. The location of the wagon is meant to put the loot outside the search radius. The loot is buried close to the river. Wood rots fast in damp ground and erosion carries the loot to the river. An important factor is that the loot was probably burried near a prominate feature so it could be recovered. That feature could be a tributary entering the river, a rock formation that stands out, a well marked boundry lind or a foard at the river etc. Keep your eyes open for depressions in these areas. Good Luck

​

 

[iwas1ncthr]

Hey All,
I know this is a very old topic but I do have some new info on this. Apparently this is a very true case of a robbery and a true hidden stash. I will try to find the book I was reading at my local Barns and Noble about the Salmon Brook Robbery done by I believe 3-5 brothers who all died over the years. As to there being a G Washington Gold Dollar? LOL, nope, I asked a dealer friend of mine and never heard of a $1 Washington gold. Anyhow the last gold coin found was in 1984 by a woman who changed her tire on the bridge that went right over Salmon brook during the spring time. As the story goes she went down a path on the side of the bridge to wash her hands from changing a tire and seen a shimmering object about 3 feet into the water, She went out to pick it up and it turned out to be a Gold coin. She then turned it into the police to see if anyone was to claim it and being that it was a coin from the early 1800's she was told about the old robbery story. No one claimed it and according to come source that I do not know and the author of the book is not willing to say, the police gave it back to her after the time period and nothing has been said or talked about since. My theory is that like in Old Deerfield Massachusetts where the Indians captured a cash box with approx 250,000 gold coins being transported for payroll to Vermont back in the day, this has never been recovered yet either but consider that the flood waters and time frame of over 100 years from where a chest was buried. Back then most chests were made of wood with 1/8th iron straps but as with all wood being buried for a long time it tends to warp and split. The gold could not have gone down the brook that fare due in part to the weight and the location of the hoard should be within 25-50 yards of where this woman found the last one in 1984. The Author of the book also said that several other of these same coins were found and reported since 1881 and to date of 84 the total is 7 Gold coins. It's just the mystery of what exact gold coin was it, the mention of a Washington dollar makes no sense and for the time period of this alledged robbery it very well may have been gold ingots from either the San Francisco/Northampton MA company or some other ingot producer. To m knowledge there are only 4 known examples of the mentioned ingots in the world today and funny how all 4 came right out of the state of Conn. Anyhow, I thought it was an interesting read and maybe will start a spark. I plan on hitting the area this week but I only have a Whites Prism5 so I will let anyone know if I find anything close to this story.