Writing on the wall - Common sense reigns inside the Beltway

[Native Floridian]

What is Federal Govt. doing in the auto business period. What business is it of there's? Why do GM employee's get a bailout and the local lumberyard doesn't? I know it's all about money brought in by taxes and the money funneled into special interests. It is none of their business.... it's called free enterprise. If you need money go to a bank if you got the credit.

Because GM going under would have caused massive unemployment, over 20%, and probably a depression. Your local lumber yard employs no more than about 20 people. While it is a shame for them if the lumber yard goes under, there is no larger economic effect.

Think of it this way - had GM been allowed to go out of business the economic domino effect of that happening would have put your local lumber yard out of business. Along with almost every other business in town except the food store. OTOH, your local lumber yard going out of business has zero effect on GM or any other business.

That same scenario repeats across the country.

That's why GM gets a bailout and your local lumber company doesn't.

 

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[Dave44]

NF; "A positive economy will eventually bail us out."

And the best way to do that is impede the wealthy from investing in business and new ventures by raising the taxes to confiscatory levels.

It is a simplistic explanation that only works in a short sound bite.
Even Kennedy was opposed to that.

 

[Dave44]

Because GM going under would have caused massive unemployment, over 20%, and probably a depression. Your local lumber yard employs no more than about 20 people. While it is a shame for them if the lumber yard goes under, there is no larger economic effect.

Think of it this way - had GM been allowed to go out of business the economic domino effect of that happening would have put your local lumber yard out of business. Along with almost every other business in town except the food store. OTOH, your local lumber yard going out of business has zero effect on GM or any other business.

That same scenario repeats across the country.

That's why GM gets a bailout and your local lumber company doesn't.

Would have, could have and probably does not equate to evidence. No facts involved here.

 

[NHBandit]

Because GM going under would have caused massive unemployment, over 20%, and probably a depression. Your local lumber yard employs no more than about 20 people. While it is a shame for them if the lumber yard goes under, there is no larger economic effect.

Think of it this way - had GM been allowed to go out of business the economic domino effect of that happening would have put your local lumber yard out of business. Along with almost every other business in town except the food store. OTOH, your local lumber yard going out of business has zero effect on GM or any other business.

That same scenario repeats across the country.

That's why GM gets a bailout and your local lumber company doesn't.

So catering to big business while ignoring the little guys is good. You know, like you fellas are always accusing the Republicans of doing.. Got it. Just messing with you though. I agree that saving a company the size of GM was needed. Being in the automotive industry my whole life I don't think most people realize just how many sub contractors and other companies (and the people who work there) support the manufacture of a car. I'll tell you what did piss me off... The "cash for clunkers" program. I was managing an auto salvage yard when that was going on. It was sad to see all the decent vehicles being junked that could have got someone with a low income back & forth to work. And the worst part is our tax dollars paid for the program and all it really did was to help grow the economy of Japan since the huge majority of new cars that people bought with the money were imports. The major components of the cars that were junked were purposely ruined. Engines & transmissions filled with a caustic chemical that destroyed them internally so they couldn't be resold to some poor slob who just wanted to keep his old car going awhile longer so he could go to work & feed his family. It was a huge waste of taxpayer money that did very little except to sell a bunch of new imported cars that the average Joe couldn't afford to buy. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...alls-short-goals-to-help-economy-environment/

 

[Dave44]

If GM had gone through the channels available to them, restructured and gotten rid of some of the onerous encumbrances they labor under, it is highly likely they would have emerged as a stronger sleeker powerhouse.

We will never know.

 

[UncleMatt]

NF; "A positive economy will eventually bail us out."

And the best way to do that is impede the wealthy from investing in business and new ventures by raising the taxes to confiscatory levels.

It is a simplistic explanation that only works in a short sound bite.
Even Kennedy was opposed to that.

Yea, this was championed by Reagan as "trickle down economics", something George Bush Sr. described as "voodoo economics". Trickle down is a known failure, simply because the wealthy do not reinvest in our country the way your theory suggests they do. They hoard, and/or export the money out of our economy. Right now many trillions in cash are being held off shore just to avoid taxation. None of which was considered when Reagan started talking about trickle down economics as the way to go...

 

[Dave44]

Your socialist understanding of the economy precludes your getting past the "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need".

Trickle down has proven to work,, it just doesn't allow the laziest among us to get rich by government handouts. And the progressives hate the idea becuase it empowers individuality, so they make up the propaganda you read( and subsequently spread) about it being evil.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Dave44:

We know there was no money available for DIP financing. zIt had dried up in the Bush Great Recession. That's a fact.

We know the bailout worked. That's another fact.

You can continue on your bean diet - Shoulda, Coulda, and Woulda. Not much nutrition there.

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Unclematt:

I recently heard a great explanation of "trickle down" economics.

"At Thanksgiving I dumped all the gravy on my plate. My relatives got what trickled down."

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

 

[Dave44]

Dave44:

We know there was no money available for DIP financing. zIt had dried up in the Bush Great Recession. That's a fact.

We know the bailout worked. That's another fact.

You can continue on your bean diet - Shoulda, Coulda, and Woulda. Not much nutrition there.

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

If there is no nutrition in it why do you keeps using it? When you say something is a fact without knowing what the consequences of alternative actions were, you diminish your argument tremendously, you become less credible.

""When you criticize something and you have no idea what you’re criticizing, it undermines your credibility.”
~ Speaker of the House John Boehner (R-Ohio)"

 

[Limitool]

If GM had gone through the channels available to them, restructured and gotten rid of some of the onerous encumbrances they labor under, it is highly likely they would have emerged as a stronger sleeker powerhouse.

We will never know.

Your right we'll never know... I worked for GM for 31 years and I NEVER understood how they sustained themselves as long as they did. And I watched our union dollars being spend on elections that many of us did not support. GM should have been allowed to fail... PERIOD. And they wouldn't have... they just would of "grown up" and downsized. It was all about politics and union support. Why do you think the UAW got special treatment in the deal... why am I exempt from some of Obamacare? I'm ashamed I ever worked for GM and or gave a union money. The things I saw go on while at GM would just blow your mind... The next shoe to drop on this country will began when the Feds stop printing money... watch the stock market tank.

 

[Jim in Idaho]

Jim you put words in my mouth and make assumptions based on generalizations. Like assuming because i believe the tea party is a wrong headed movement I must not agree with anything they say or do. When in reality, my beef with them is in their execution, not their motive. And their complete diversion from their original course.

Three things need to happen for us to reduce our debt. We need to reduce spending. Smart cuts, not scorched earth. Second, we need to raise the income tax rate. We fought two wars on a credit card. That really hurts us now. During WW 2 the top tax rate in this country was 91%. Today it is about 39%. Lastly, we need the economy to stay positive. A positive economy will eventually bail us out.

First off...why would I think you don't like the tea party when you say "they're dangerous". Your words. and...we don't have a positive economy to bail us out. And no indication a positive economy is coming. If you balanced the budget the economy would collapse. Even the threat of stopping the printing is enough to collapse the stock market. You're dreaming if you think we're painlessly getting out of this mess. Socialism always ends badly...every single time. And it's going to end badly this time, too. And you Dems are to blame. Dems started it in this country, and have been pushing it for 80 years. And for the last 40 years, we've been going downhill. The only thing that maintained our standard of living is borrowing money...in effect, spending money we didn't have. And, the fools in the world let us do it. How long do you think they'll keep allowing it, and what do you think the result will be when they don't? Also, please show me any cuts in spending. I mean show me a budget year when the total spending decreases. And, you may have noticed, it's the Dems who never want to slow it down. Smart cuts my a--.
Jim

 

[UncleMatt]

Your socialist understanding of the economy precludes your getting past the "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need".

Trickle down has proven to work,, it just doesn't allow the laziest among us to get rich by government handouts. And the progressives hate the idea becuase it empowers individuality, so they make up the propaganda you read( and subsequently spread) about it being evil.

Wow, spend more time asking questions, and less time assuming things, and trying to deliver veiled insults. "Your socialist understanding" would be one of those insults.

 

[Dave44]

Unclematt:

I recently heard a great explanation of "trickle down" economics.

"At Thanksgiving I dumped all the gravy on my plate. My relatives got what trickled down."

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

Because your relatives were too lazy to get some gravy for themselves, they were still able to reap the benefits of your clumsiness.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

We will NOT go quietly into the night!

 

[Limitool]

Cut all taxes... Deregulate businesses... Let all offshore moneys be allowed to re-enter this county untaxed (again) and be invested. And mostly have everyone pay taxes especially the lower 50% of the tax base. Drastically reducing welfare in ALL FORMS and/or put limits on receiving them. A positive economy will eventually bail us out.

 

[UncleMatt]

lol, just repeating the same refuted, disproven economic perspectives that only serve companies and the wealthy is a sure fire way to lose all future national elections...

 

[UncleMatt]

The highest tax rate in the 1950's was over 75%, yet we had great economic growth where all the participants were able to benefit. A single bread winner could support a family. So suggesting tax rates are holding back our economy is simply political rhetoric. They are at all time lows! And please, don't confuse the levied rates with the effective rate, which is what is actually paid in the end.

 

[Dave44]

lol, just repeating the same refuted, disproven economic perspectives that only serve companies and the wealthy is a sure fire way to lose all future national elections...

In fact, they are proven methods,, And you could not balance your checkbook by using the fanatic methods you ascribe too. But the extremists on the left will believe anything.

 

[Limitool]

lol, just repeating the same refuted, disproven economic perspectives that only serve companies and the wealthy is a sure fire way to lose all future national elections...

It will work and always does... it's suppose to serve companies. That's the whole point. And the wealthy.... the wealthy are smarter than most people. If you don't think so check you bank balance. That will never change. Why doesn't everyone pay INCOME tax on their earnings? Something....? Why do a lot of people get $1,000's of dollars back on their income tax and hardly made anything all year. My daughter made just over 15,000 and got $7,800 in her return!!!!! Not only did she not pay ANY income tax at all she got more back than she ever came close to paying in!!!! Very good deal... That crap needs to STOP.