Why C2?

[Old Silver]

You mean an officially documented gold and silver mine that was being worked prior to 1821?

I mean something outside of the Beale story.

I'm pretty sure the mines were there before they were discovered and worked by the mining companies.

 

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[Old Silver]

You mean an officially documented gold and silver mine that was being worked prior to 1821?

Yes, it was documented in a book, and it had been worked sometime before 1827.

 

[bigscoop]

I can appreciate your desire to still want to believe in the whole mining possibility but "prior to 1827" isn't exactly in the described period as this could also easily mean sometime in 23,24,25,26? And on top of this documented mining history clearly rebuts any chance that a highly successful SILVER mining operation was in operation in the region in the described region. And if one determines to settle on ores then this brings into a play an entire array of other highly unlikely circumstances which pretty much scraps that notion. 10 ox and 10 wagons? Even with empty wagons this would bring about extremely slow travel into the already highly questionable travel time detailed, and all of this over very rough and rugged terrains to boot. And so on and so on. So in the end the whole notion of a highly successful mining operation as described in the Beale papers just wasn't possible during the era described.

 

[Old Silver]

I can appreciate your desire to still want to believe in the whole mining possibility but "prior to 1827" isn't exactly in the described period as this could also easily mean sometime in 23,24,25,26? And on top of this documented mining history clearly rebuts any chance that a highly successful SILVER mining operation was in operation in the region in the described region. And if one determines to settle on ores then this brings into a play an entire array of other highly unlikely circumstances which pretty much scraps that notion. 10 ox and 10 wagons? Even with empty wagons this would bring about extremely slow travel into the already highly questionable travel time detailed, and all of this over very rough and rugged terrains to boot. And so on and so on. So in the end the whole notion of a highly successful mining operation as described in the Beale papers just wasn't possible during the era described.

Before 1827 is not in the Beale period? You might want to rethink that. Anyway, I didn't say this was a Beale mine, now did I? This was about the existence of the mines. They existed before they were discovered.

 

[bigscoop]

Before 1827 is not in the Beale period? You might want to rethink that. Anyway, I didn't say this was a Beale mine, now did I? This was about the existence of the mines. They existed before they were discovered.

1817-1822, so no, 1827 is not the Beale period. In fact, many-many things started to change after 1821 in that region of the country as those borders were now clearly detailed and confirmed and western expansion was starting to be further debated, frequently encouraged, and challenged. So I just don't think those years after 1821 can be compared to those years prior.

 

[Old Silver]

1817-1822, so no, 1827 is not the Beale period. In fact, many-many things started to change after 1821 in that region of the country as those borders were now clearly detailed and confirmed and western expansion was starting to be further debated, frequently encouraged, and challenged. So I just don't think those years after 1821 can be compared to those years prior.

I didn't say 1827, I said BEFORE 1827.

 

[bigscoop]

I didn't say 1827, I said BEFORE 1827.

I understand that, but like I said, you have no specific period "of before" so this could simply mean "a couple of years before", or say, in 1823, 24,25,26? But even if it was an already worked mine this doesn't even nullify the biggest obstacle/obstacles that still remain in the tale, and there are many.

 

[Old Silver]

I understand that, but like I said, you have no specific period "of before" so this could simply mean "a couple of years before", or say, in 1823, 24,25,26? But even if it was an already worked mine this doesn't even nullify the biggest obstacle/obstacles that still remain in the tale, and there are many.

I thought we were talking about whether or not the mines existed.
This mine being associated with Thomas Beale is a question mark, but it's also a possibility, obstacles notwithstanding.

 

[ECS]

I can appreciate your desire to still want to believe in the whole mining possibility but "prior to 1827" isn't exactly in the described period as this could also easily mean sometime in 23,24,25,26? And on top of this documented mining history clearly rebuts any chance that a highly successful SILVER mining operation was in operation in the region in the described region. And if one determines to settle on ores then this brings into a play an entire array of other highly unlikely circumstances which pretty much scraps that notion. 10 ox and 10 wagons? Even with empty wagons this would bring about extremely slow travel into the already highly questionable travel time detailed, and all of this over very rough and rugged terrains to boot. And so on and so on. So in the end the whole notion of a highly successful mining operation as described in the Beale papers just wasn't possible during the era described.

Beale Treasure
This addresses some of what Bigscoop mentioned.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

As Bigscoop has pointed out, those" mines in the area" did not exist until 50 years after the alleged Beale story expedition.

Wrong again, there was mining from 1500's on in the area by Spanish and French !

 

[bigscoop]

Wrong again, there was mining from 1500's on in the area by Spanish and French !

Mostly fairy tales.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Mostly fairy tales.

OR... just caves; holes in the ground... NOTHING "worked" like a REAL mines, until the days of John P. Risque, brother of James Beverly Risque...

 

[Old Silver]

OR... just caves; holes in the ground... NOTHING "worked" like a REAL mines, until the days of John P. Risque, brother of James Beverly Risque...

Sounds like ole John believed something.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

John Pickerel Risque, brother of James Beverly Risque, was an inspector of mines in Arizona, etc (ALL American territories), until he was killed by Indians in 1882 or so. PV, in his book, THE BEALE TREASURE: NEW History of a MYSTERY wrote, "Hutter heard that his 33-year old cousin, John Pickerel Risque (ACTUALLY, a Grand Uncle, since JB Risque was his Grand-Father), had been killed by Indians in Arizona. His death came as he was returning home with a party that had been inspecting some sort of mine. This news came as a shock. Hutter had always found John's adventures fascinating." (p. 162).

 

[bigscoop]

John Pickerel Risque, brother of James Beverly Risque, was an inspector of mines in Arizona, etc (ALL American territories), until he was killed by Indians in 1882 or so. PV, in his book, THE BEALE TREASURE: NEW History of a MYSTERY wrote, "Hutter heard that his 33-year old cousin, John Pickerel Risque (ACTUALLY, a Grand Uncle, since JB Risque was his Grand-Father), had been killed by Indians in Arizona. His death came as he was returning home with a party that had been inspecting some sort of mine. This news came as a shock. Hutter had always found John's adventures fascinating." (p. 162).

This is still "many years" past the alleged Beale adventure.

 

[ECS]

Yes it was, and another influence utilized in the 1885 Beale Papers, and later, the Hart Papers, another connection to that intertwining family bloodline that began with James Beverly Risqué and that duel with Thomas Beale.

 

[Old Silver]

Yes it was, and another influence utilized in the 1885 Beale Papers, and later, the Hart Papers, another connection to that intertwining family bloodline that began with James Beverly Risqué and that duel with Thomas Beale.

Do you know that for a fact? That is a positive statement and requires proof.

 

[ECS]

Yes it is, and you are free to research that information.

 

[Old Silver]

Yes it is, and you are free to research that information.

I don't need to research it. You're the one who made the statement, so the burden of proof is on you, not me.

 

[ECS]

"I'll never be your beast of burden"- THE ROLLING STONES