who really discovered american

Jackalope said:
Let's pretend that we can examine the evidence openly and without bias ....then,

There are only two world views. Either matter is self-created or matter was formed by a Creator. Either helium gave rise to all elements or the elements were formed by a Creator. Either inert matter spontaneously formed into a living cell or a Creator designed the cell. Either single cell organisms evolved into all plants and animals or their initial types were created by a Creator and descended by kind henceforth. Either man is the result of undirected chance operating via mutations or man is created in God's image.

If all we have is the science known today then macro evolution - that is, natural selection preserving the fittest and mutations adding information at the cellular level is impossible and has no scientific basis. It can make philosophical claims for how the cosmos came to exist but it does so in opposition to the laws of science.

If we take the science we have and examine the evidence found in nature then we can conclude without violating the laws of nature that the world is relatively young, that man and all creatures and plants were designed by a Designer and show forth incredibly intricate engineering, and that all species descended intact from an original parent, including man.

If we continue this honest thought experiment we would conclude that if a Creator designed humans He would also have revealed Himself in nature by the immensity and complexity, which we find, and by a written record given to man, and in the self-knowledge innate to all people that God exists and they are answerable to Him, though it is denied and ignored in myriads of ways.

Assuming the above to be true, we would examine the religions of the world and find that only the Bible has a detailed creation account and a genealogical record that can trace man's history back to the original parent. While there are derivative stories of creation, floods, dragons and dispersion of peoples it is only the Bible that provides precisely detailed accounts and whose historical accuracy is unassailable and utterly trustworthy.

If we allow ourselves to divorce ourselves from a lifelong evolutionary programming and humanistic worldview that permeates society we can free ourselves to ask what the outline of the Biblical record and the scientific evidence would unfold - how do they work to explain the past?

Briefly, we would outline history from Biblical chronology like this:

11,013 BC God creates the cosmos, plants, animals, and man and woman
4,990 BC Flood destroys all of mankind except eight
2914 - 3153 BC Between these dates the tower of Babel occurred and the dispersion by language groups

On explanation for the Flood, one that predicts the evidences we see today is the Hydroplate Theory (as expressed by Walt Brown Ph.D. in his book "In the Beginning"). Simply put, from the original waters that covered the earth about half became subterranean waters about 10 miles deep below the earth's surface. The continents of Europe, Asia, Africa, and Americas were joined and animals and men were able to migrate. Pressure increased in the subterranean salt water which expanded and deformed the overlying granite crust until a rupture ensued at one point that penetrated the belt of super pressurized water. The waters exploded and expanded the crack along the path of least resistance, circling the earth in a few hours. This path corresponds to the Mid-Oceanic Ridge. Water ejected at supersonic speeds into the upper atmosphere where it fell as muddy "hail" and lower in the atmosphere where it fell as torrential rains. A portion of the most powerful jets drove rocks and debris into space (our comets, meteors, and asteroids of today).

The muddy water jetting forth eroded the granite and expanded the global rift about 400 miles wide. The mud and sediment on the surface of the earth buried on the ocean floor plants and animals that died in the rising waters. Because mountain uplift had not begun yet the major mountain chains were yet to form, the waters surging out of the rupture were able to cover the earth's topography. The water within the rift and the continental plates that were riding, suspended buoyantly on the subterranean water layer were force apart along the rift axis. This occurred because with the mass removed above the rift the basalt layer upon which the subterranean water layer rested buckled upward (about 10 miles from the ocean floor) driving the land plates away by the force of gravity and by decreased friction (riding buoyantly on water as a hydroplate). The water layer acted as a lubrication allowed the hydroplates to accelerate away from each other.

The plates continued away until either the water layer was depleted and friction slowed them or they collided causing gigantic compression and buckling, crushing, and thickening of the plate. The frictional effects created heat that melted the rock producing volumes of magma (along with metamorphic rock to include marble and diamonds). Some magma was trapped in magma chambers and some flowed in places on the surface creating flood basalts, these frictional affects began a period of volcanic activity.

The compression of the plates as they collided thickened them and they rose up, to include massive rapid mountain building. The waters receded off the continents, eroding channels and creating major rivers to include submarine canyons. Following the event equilibrium was established as the thickened plates sank into the basalt floor over the ensuing centuries. This drove the deep ocean floor to rise increasing sea level. Animals that were brought through the flood dispersed but as the ocean rose species were then isolated to islands and separated continents.

The next key event was the reestablishment of equilibrium in the earth's rotation. The major mountain groups formed suddenly and caused the earth to roll about 45 degrees. This was the result of centrifugal force establishing a balanced spin. The preflood North Pole moved to what is now central Asia. This shift created the 6 degree precession in the earth's axis. This is why so much coal is found at the South Pole, vast lush vegetation, and dinosaur remains, and frozen mammoths inside the Arctic Circle.

Some high lakes had remained and not drained, one such Grand Lake was in southeast Utah at an elevation of 5700 feet. When this elevated lake ruptured it drained through Arizona releasing more water than is contained today in all five Great Lakes combined.

As for the people of the earth, in 4990 BC as the water rose - they perished, along with animal life. Only those aboard the four-story tall and 500 foot long craft built by Noah survived. It carried only mammals, birds, reptiles, and humans - about 16,000 animals. The Ark holding space was about 1,500,000 cubic feet which was more than adequate for the job. Note: the micro-changes we see in animals is within the tolerances of our DNA and does not represent an additional coding of DNA (as macro evolution demands) but a loss or corruption (mutation) of that information. A pair of wolf-like animals in the Ark was all that was necessary to become the ancestors of coyotes, dingoes, jackals, foxes, and varieties of domestic dogs. Each member can interbreed and are members of the same dog kind.

There was plenty of time following the flood after the dispersion of men by language groups for them to gain access to North America and Australia and elsewhere before the sea level rose and cut-off access without a ship. Each group would have carried with them whatever knowledge they had but many skills were lost (such as the knowledge of metal working for instance) over time. Some groups re-discovered more advanced craftsmanship, farming, weaponry and dominated their regions. Those not suited to their new environments died or were conquered, with the fittest passing on those traits. For instance, Eskimos do not have melanin to counter intense sunlight - if dark-skinned nomads wandered toward the poles they would find themselves unable to concentrate enough Vitamin D and would eventually have to move away or suffer and die. Pale-skinned peoples would not fare well under the intense sun along the equator, though over generations the advantage of darker-skin would become a desirable (and attractive) trait. The upshot is, the dispersion by language brought isolation, distrust, and wars wherein mankind was isolated by groups. Some of these nomadic groups settled in North America - fighting amongst each other until boundaries were mostly settled. Once the water level rose the peoples were mostly confined to their present location by geography, by climatic controls, by threats from war, and by micro evolutionary adjustments to climatic conditions.

Any white men who sailed into North America after the continent was settled would have been violently repelled. Many Indians tribes that early explorers encountered in the Americas were cannibals and exceeding depraved (unlike the happy stories of the nature-loving Indian living in harmony with Nature). Living in relative isolation, having loss the knowledge of God and skilled craftsman they had devolved (of sorts) into a base human existence; practicing animism and superstitious beliefs, recounting creation stories based on fragmentary details of things that centuries ago where well known and understood.
Click to expand...

I haven't read all of this yet, but will do. I did grasp your point, and I agree. Humans, the human race as a whole, don't know $hit, about nothin. We may as well face it, and just swallow that bitter pill. My opinion is we will never complete the whole puzzle, nor should we even look for those tiny pieces. Once we accept that certain things can't be answered, we will advance beyond our greatest expectations. Just my view. This is bordering on topics that wars are fought over.
 

Since we're pretending to look at this openly and without bias.....where is the the lifelong evolutionary programming side to this arguement? LOL.....Jackalope? I see no way that either view can be explored without bias.

Doesn't matter, the question is who.....not how.
 

I belive the answer is they are both true and really the same story. One is just the result of word of mouth analogys that had to be adapted to the understanding of the people of the day. Then we humans who constantly embellish and over complicate things were left with the task of spreading the word. A story can change from one end of the local pub to the other. Imagine an entire planet over thousands of years.
 

Been lots of blood shed over this issue. I believe lots more will be shed over it, with still no conclusion. Sad sad world. In that aspect any way. I try not to think about it.
 

:censored: the Alpha and the Omega.
 

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Obviously you've never seen mission to mars with my favorite actor don cheadle.
 

wow how did i miss this post....:laughing7: i'll be back after I catch up, since someone wrote a book on here might take me a while.
 

I discovered america back in the 80s when i went backpacking across europe.
 

I don't think anything can. I believe the truth is in putting them both together. And accepting the fact that a lot of explanations of days long gone are analogies that do the job of making sense of complicated processes that technology did not exist to explain.
 

Posts deleted, it is against rules to post religious threads or replies ....
 

A bit off topic but still on the who found America subject. When in college I did a report on Ptolemy and his map (maps) of one thousand BC (I spelled it out to avoid any "typo" questions). All show the curvature of the Earth and a few show a hint of an unknown land mass to the west. While researching I found out that Columbus used charts or maps beleived (in some arenas) to be Leif Erikson's as the main swaying point to get the Queen to finance his voyage. On on of the government buildings in DC there are a set of HUGE doors depicting Columbus with papers in his hand. This is our tribute to him. Kinda rambling but just a few facts.
 

I belive people have always been here
why would they have to come here?
when the world was just one place and it split into the many peace's we have today!!!
surely there was people on this peace we call USA,
as big as it is they had to be people here from the start.
 

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