Who Owned Those Spanish Mines?

[gollum]

Springfield,

This statement:

"The King (individually) was not proprietor of a single mine, nor is there one instance, since the Conquest, of an attempt having been made by the Government to interfere with the mode of working adopted by individuals, or to diminish the profits of the successful adventurer, under any plea, or pretence, from the more fortunate, a higher rate of duties than that which was payable by the poorest miner to the Royal Treasury. By this judicious liberality and good faith, the fullest scope was given for private exertion; and this, in a country where mineral treasures are so abundant, was soon found to be all that was requisite in order to ensure their production to a great extent."

Is not entirely correct. If you read about the "Planchas de Plata" discovery of 1736, you will find that when the crown found out that pure silver was found in masses, they considered it "treasure trove", which then made it property of the crown. The miners considered it natural and open to their ownership. The case spent many years in court, and eventually the crown won out.

In most cases though, the statement is correct, just not in EVERY CASE.

Also, the entire line regarding quicksilver/mercury is not exactly correct either. The King of Spain owned three things in their entirety in all his lands:

1. Any Treasure Trove: Any precious metals found in bars or solid chunks. This way, if Cibola were real, then there was no question as to who would profit from its' finding.

2. Salt: All salt deposits in the new world were considered property of the crown. When Father Kino SJ found a beautiful and clean surface deposit of salt along the shore of the Sea of Cortez, he could not take any as it belonged to the crown.

3. All Mercury: Mercury used in refining gold and silver were required to have been bought from the crown. Even though many local sources of mercury were found (i.e. Capt JM Manje's Mercury Mine), 99% of the mercury sold to miners was imported.

The crown required one-fifth of the profits of MOST every mine. If a mine were proved to be poorer in nature, then the king was known to have required the mine owner to pay as little as one-tenth the profits. The miner was still required to buy his mercury from the crown, but also to pay whatever share he contracted with the king to pay. This share was paid when the ore/dore bars were brought to a mint to be turned into coins or refined ingots. The Royal Assayer would refine the gold/silver. He would then take one or two "bites" from the bar (for his labor). Take the Royal Quinto from the whole. Then officially stamp the bars or strike the coins, and give them to the miner. One loophole exploited by many small miners was a part of the law that stated as long as the miner stayed in the outlands, he could trade for goods and services with raw ore, not having to give up the king's percentage until dropping the ore off at the mint.

Regarding Royal Roads:

Royal Roads were maintained by the crown. Other roads and trails were maintained by those that needed to use them.

For more accurate and detailed reading on the subject, I advise finding the two volumes of: "A Collection of Mining Laws of Spain and Mexico" Halleck 1859
This book details most of the rules and regulations regarding mining in the New World from 1584 until after Mexico kicked the Europeans in 1821.

Springfield, you really need to stop hating on Chuck Kenworthy. The man recovered more treasure in his lifetime than you could ever hope to imagine. The two I personally know about were:

1. 1028 silver bars from southern Arizona:

The hole they came out of is still visible!

2. A trunk full of very rich gold ore that came from the Superstition Mountains. My good friend said the ore looked like someone had shot quartz with golden buckshot.

Kenworthy was a multimillionaire in California Real Estate long before he ever discovered treasure hunting. He teamed up with the best minds and the most modern scientific equipment available. To his dying day, he stayed good friends with the top scientists from SRI (Stanford Research Institute). Mining Engineers and Physicists were the people he traveled the world with looking for treasures. For proof, read this:

http://ldolphin.org/rpl/ch5.html

Not only did Kenworthy consort with Engineers and Physicists, John Wayne was a firm believer. Both funding Kenworthy and letting him use his yacht "Wild Goose" as his HQ for some ocean based treasure hunting expeditions.

You stated:

Be that as it may, the point is this: the large number of ‘Spanish caches’ marked by the ‘King’s Code’ that you think you are following simply do not exist. There was no King’s Code, ala Kenworthy, in use in the American Southwest. The ‘King’s Code’ explanation of the relatively few genuine signs that are being discovered is a fantasy used to boost egos at the expense of the unwary. Have you seen Kenworthy’s proof? I thought not. Have those who claim to have the proof provided anything but talk?

Like I said previously; Kenworthy was a multimillionaire already. Do you REALLY think he made more than a few thousand dollars in his lifetime from his books? He spent an untold amount of money bribing archivists around the world to send him sight unseen, anything related to land based treasure hunting.

Have I seen Kenworthy's Proof? No. When Kenworthy died, a good friend of mine was supposed to have received those one hundred some-odd pages of document copies. That was until Kenworthy's Son stepped in. Since the Exploration LLC "Quest" was still a viable entity, his son believed they should stay in the family. He still has them.

My proof that Kenworthy was telling telling the truth with SOME of what he knew, is what I have found. I have never shown this on TNet, and I won't show all the details. What I will show, however, is a trail of monuments up a canyon in the Southwest USA. Some of the monuments and their meanings were straight out of CK's Books. Some, I had to shoot from the hip (but proved to be accurate) based on CK's Theories. I am going to do this in a separate post.

Here is the link:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=457873.new#new

Best - Mike

 

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Treasure of Victoria Peak - Grab it through Amazon!

[Springfield]

.... Have I seen Kenworthy's Proof? No. When Kenworthy died, a good friend of mine was supposed to have received those one hundred some-odd pages of document copies. That was until Kenworthy's Son stepped in. Since the Exploration LLC "Quest" was still a viable entity, his son believed they should stay in the family. He still has them.

My proof that Kenworthy was telling telling the truth with SOME of what he knew, is what I have found. I have never shown this on TNet, and I won't show all the details. What I will show, however, is a trail of monuments up a canyon in the Southwest USA. Some of the monuments and their meanings were straight out of CK's Books. Some, I had to shoot from the hip (but proved to be accurate) based on CK's Theories. I am going to do this in a separate post.

Here is the link:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=457873.new#new

Best - Mike

Yes, on your thread I've credited Kenworthy to the point at which his contributions are usable. I've always conceded that point. No argument there. Re the 'proof' of the 'King's Code': well, when I see the documents, I'll edit my working model. The word of sons, friends and true believers may comfort, but they don't feed the bulldog.

[OT: hey, where's that new Noss book?]

 

[gollum]

Springfield,

What you seem to fail to take into account is the fact that not only did CK use them in the field (to find treasures), so did/does his son. Which is why he doesn't let them out. If they were figments of his dad's imagination, then why not let them go to my friend when his dad passed on? No sense at all to keep them a secret.

I personally think Kenworthy had ulterior motives for releasing the information he did. The information contained in those books would put you in the vicinity of hidden wealth, but not right on top of it.

I know for a fact that Kenworthy received tons of mail from people who thought they had found a trail of monuments, and needed CK's help to get the last leg. I think CK planned things that way. He knew he would receive a ton of mail with pictures of interesting rock formations, and every once in a great while, he might get a picture of something that was real and in the vicinity of hidden wealth. Since he never gave out that final bit of info, his assistance would be necessary, and for a share of any finds made, he would use his information and technical contacts (SRI). In other words, spread some of the necessary information (via his books), sit back and wait for treasure to come to him.

OT

With work and other crap, I haven't spoken to Jack in a while. I just checked the website (victoriopeak.com) and I see that everything is still in limbo except the EBook for #1. I will email him and ask what the hold up is. I can imagine that releasing the ebook before the hardcover was a colossal mistake, as one person (sfloto 99%) downloaded it and posted it on a bit torrent site.

Mike

 

[gollum]

Yes, on your thread I've credited Kenworthy to the point at which his contributions are usable. I've always conceded that point. No argument there. Re the 'proof' of the 'King's Code': well, when I see the documents, I'll edit my working model. The word of sons, friends and true believers may comfort, but they don't feed the bulldog.

They don't feed YOUR bulldog!

Let me ask you ...... if YOU spent a lot of money getting copies of documents that showed exactly how to find hidden treasures, would YOU openly post those documents for all the world to see? You would be an idiot if you did!

As for me, I would likely do exactly as he did. Use them myself as much as I could, then release some of the information and let other people come to me with pictures.

Best - Mike

 

[Springfield]

Yes, on your thread I've credited Kenworthy to the point at which his contributions are usable. I've always conceded that point. No argument there. Re the 'proof' of the 'King's Code': well, when I see the documents, I'll edit my working model. The word of sons, friends and true believers may comfort, but they don't feed the bulldog.

They don't feed YOUR bulldog!

Let me ask you ...... if YOU spent a lot of money getting copies of documents that showed exactly how to find hidden treasures, would YOU openly post those documents for all the world to see? You would be an idiot if you did!

As for me, I would likely do exactly as he did. Use them myself as much as I could, then release some of the information and let other people come to me with pictures.

Best - Mike

That's correct, my bulldog don't want no stinkin' turkey pastrami. Been down this road numerous times in the past 35 years, and even with another well known treasure cult hero. "Thanks for showing me this. It's very important, but I can't tell you why. What else you got?" Uh huh.

Let me answer your question, or at least its salient premise: I'm not gullible enough to believe that somebody would sell me information that would show me exactly how to find hidden treasures.

Unfortunately (fortunately, actually), extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Let's see the documents. Otherwise, it's just more whiskey talk. As soon as you accept something on faith, you're putty.

 

[Shortstack]

Yes, on your thread I've credited Kenworthy to the point at which his contributions are usable. I've always conceded that point. No argument there. Re the 'proof' of the 'King's Code': well, when I see the documents, I'll edit my working model. The word of sons, friends and true believers may comfort, but they don't feed the bulldog.

They don't feed YOUR bulldog!

Let me ask you ...... if YOU spent a lot of money getting copies of documents that showed exactly how to find hidden treasures, would YOU openly post those documents for all the world to see? You would be an idiot if you did!

As for me, I would likely do exactly as he did. Use them myself as much as I could, then release some of the information and let other people come to me with pictures.

Best - Mike

Doesn't that sound a little bit like a certain member of TNet? HMmmmm?? Do you think maybe Junior is working the forum??

Thank you, Mike for the tour of your trail. It really helps put somemore "meat" on the table of information. Did you find any of those "canyon" ladies?? That must have been why you were only half dressed in that one photo. LMAO

 

[rangler]

Springer,

I appreciate your efforts to deny the whole Spanish mining, by Jesuits in the New World [New Spain]
however your blanket statement that all mercury had to be obtained by buying it is false on its premise,
one of the major complaints of the Jesuits was NOT getting anything in the way of supplies...as corrupt Sea Captains, ducked in to Port Royal when they first reached the other side of the Atlantic and traded most of the goods shipped by the King to New Spain for whores and rum...and a few gold coins.

Second misconception is about using mercury for the recovery of gold, it was used only to collect the "left over" from the high grading" of the gold ore, as large nuggets and rich veins did NOT require any mercury at all to recover, so you are really incorrect in that assumption, or at least you misinterpeted what you read. mercury/antimony was used to collect "flour" gold and nothing else. Also you are overlooking the fact that Mercury can be used over and over again, which I always do when using it to clean up the tiny gold dots from the surrounding black sands...a simple piece of chamios leather can be used to get
about 95%of the Mercury back from the amalgum...before that was discovered, a simple potatoe would be used by hollowing it out enough to contian the ball of mercury and gold, then heated by placing it on a shovel and holding it over the fire, the mercury vaporizes over the heat and is recollected back into the potatoe to be used over and over again..the fine gold recovery by mercury only represents a tiny percentage of the total gold mined..less the 2-3% from my actual gold mining and recover operations since 1980 when gold hit $1000.
The second point and very major, was deposits of Cinnabar were often depostied in the same post volcanic ground where gold was deposited...and mercury from Cinnabar ore [a deep red rock]was super simple and easily found and mercury was extracted from the host rock by gentle heating, and could have been discovered by using campfire stones of Cinnabar ore, and they noticed the mercury running freely out of the rock by the heat of the fire of the campfire stones...

And since you not really a gold miner, you would have no way of knowing of the Secrets of Antimony
which the Jesuits readily knew from their training in the University of Salamanica and others to get
their degree in Metalurgy. Just one more of their secrets they kept from everyone encluding you.


Most of what you uncovered comes from the well crafted 'cover story' than many to this day still erronously believe.

You live in a make believe world which is fine if you keep it to your self, however, Kenworthy is your major god of destruction as he is the antihesis of your beliefs, and many of us, find his signs, decode them as to his intructions and have found the whole series of Trail Markers that lead to Treasure Signs
that lead to the Treasure Trail that takes one to Monuments that when decodeed reveal the Mines or Caches...

The Spanish/Jesuit Code is real and is on display in the entire area of New Spain..if you want to find the evidence for your self, you only have yourself to blame if you cant find it...the hundreds of pics on this site along, some of which I have decoded for folks is a start, but if you believe it is all not real , that is your problem , so please don't disuade the real trackers who are working on this Code, of course you will not as you seem to want to suppy disinformation as opposed to suppling solutions to the signs and marks.

Your falsely acquired believe that the code does not exists only dovetails with what ever your agenda is, and with the modern day Jessies.

Also your explanation does not account for the those private individuals you speak of were really the Dons, who were invited here by the Jessies to take land grants that contianed the mines, it was part of the uncover operations that you are overlooking. All old waybills and even the Kings Maps started from the Port of entry to the nearest Dons' Hacienda across the Desert following the Trail Signs, then a short distance away from the end of the Trail markers the Treasure Trail would start, both Trail monuments and Treasure Monuments contain the "hoyo" except for the Kings Treasure Trail which would do away with the hoyo, so as to hide His treasure trail more than the others. That is why the Kings Alpha has to contain many more elements [read harder to decode] than the regular Treasure Trail monuments.

The attempt to block out or deny 300 years of mining and shipping of gold and silver to Spain, just
will not succed, unless you are easily swayed and have not done the research for your self. I have.
the Truth is carved in Stone but only for the Worthy [the ones willing to work hard for about 20 years
or so to break the Code and know the Truth.
oro objective
rangler
-----------------------------------------

gollum,
you are absolutely correct about Kenworthy, his son as you know did publish Spanish Trail Monuments and Signs, that really gave context to the other books published by his Dad.

you said"....if YOU spent a lot of money getting copies of documents that showed exactly how to find hidden treasures, would YOU openly post those documents for all the world to see? You would be an idiot if you did!"
Perhaps you need to rethink that statement, for just a second, take GREED out of the equation and then realize that there are human beings that are motivated by a higher purpose and if such a document was published, it still would take a 100 years to dig up all the caches and discover the hidden mines.

The reason Kenworthy did not publish the Post Omega Data, is that he knew - like me - that that would put the goodies at risk for the Govt types - or worse -to get to the stuff faster than anyone else, so he could control the recoveries but only to worthy people not entities, and you know who they are, right?
The modern equivant of those that were involved centuries ago...some very undeserving.

 

[rangler]

True Trackers,

"All the metallic wealth is in the hands of individuals. The government possesses no other mine …


the person in 1822 I think it was who make this statement would have NO way of knowing the truth
the difference between a normal mine trail and a Royal mine Trail would have not been known by this indivual, so he has no authority to make such a blanket statement at least to be believed by people who have done the research and walked the Trails for a quarter century plus..

The only credit he deserves is the the King was the Prime Contractor, and most mines where found and worked by HIS subcontractors..example the Lessor Conquistors usually got about 10% of the gross profits from the mine, The Super Conquistors only had to pay the Quint.the Noblemen about the same, the Jesuits had the richest contract of all because the Pope got an astounding 80% of the gross profits of the Mine with the King getting the short end of stick at 20%

So if he knew about the above, then he could have make that erronous statement in good faith.
oro mandate
rangler
ps dont belive the statement the Jesuits had any conflict with the Pope they all took the 4th Vow
to be loyal to the Pope rather than the King, and the proof is that they died under torture rather than
tell the King where the mines and caches were buried, this included where they hid the Code Book as well

 

[Springfield]

....ps dont belive the statement the Jesuits had any conflict with the Pope they all took the 4th Vow
to be loyal to the Pope rather than the King, and the proof is that they died under torture rather than tell the King where the mines and caches were buried, this included where they hid the Code Book as well

I guess one of your sycophants pulled his thread, letting you off the hook on the question I posed to you there yesterday.

Let me ask you again: why would the Jesuits use the so-called 'King's Code' to mark their valuables? Answer: they wouldn't (see your own statement above). Please remove the Jesuits from your 'King's Code' theories. If the Jesuits had a code system, it cerrtainly wasn't the King's.

The remainder of my removed post shredded the remainder of your theories, but I gotta go to town tonite, so breathe easy for awhile. Ciao.

 

[gollum]

Rangler,

I don't need to rethink one single word of my statement. Chuck Kenworthy did not get into treasure hunting to add to the knowledge base of mankind. He got into treasure hunting for the same reason he got into real estate ....... TO MAKE MONEY. While he may have performed some philanthropic acts, he was not a treasure hunting philanthropist. He was a very sharp man with a great business sense.

Springfield,

I'm not sure if I answered your question in this thread or on another, but I will say it again here (and I have said it a million times before). The Jesuits would NEVER use any code that a Spaniard would have any way to understand its' meaning. The Jesuits were hiding their wealth FROM THE SPANISH!

Mike

 

[Springfield]

...
Springfield,

I'm not sure if I answered your question in this thread or on another, but I will say it again here (and I have said it a million times before). The Jesuits would NEVER use any code that a Spaniard would have any way to understand its' meaning. The Jesuits were hiding their wealth FROM THE SPANISH!
Mike

Mike, the question was directed at rangler - sorry if I created any confusion. Anyway, you are absolutely correct with your statement above. We may have differing opinions on some things, but at least the circles overlap here. Thanks for the reality injection.

rangler, I'll say again: you need to cull out the Jesuits from your 'King's Code' presentations, once and for all. Please correct. Your repeated fundamental error jeopardizes your credibility.

 

[rangler]

Mike,
the Quint means 20% it was the Kings Share
that begs the question who got the 80% does it not?

I am not sure where you base your information from but the Spanish Code was basically invented and added to and perfected by the Jesuits~!
no one else could have done that, once you break the code it becomes evident.

Only in the later years of the occupation did this get really sour between the King and the Jessies...that is when they started the quit deliberate act of making the monuments more and more vague, making shadow signs appear only for short periods time. After having decoded hundreds of monuments one can actually tell if the monument was of the early period or the later, example in the Supers the monuments are huge and very bodacious and in your face,[ala kenworthy pic of the large Indian face on the cover of one of his books....] later they grew smaller and more illusive..and when collections fell off that led to one of the reasons for the arrest and deportation. That is why I made the statement that steve cited.

mike about the release of indise info on the code quotation..i was not talking about Kenworthy, tho it may have appeared that way, I was talking about myself actually..sorry for the confusion.

 

[Springfield]

Mike,
the Quint means 20% it was the Kings Share
that begs the question who got the 80% does it not?

I am not sure where you base your information from but the Spanish Code was basically invented and added to and perfected by the Jesuits~!
no one else could have done that, once you break the code it becomes evident. .....

Simplified for you, rangler, as follows.

The Jesuits' allegience was to themselves first and foremost. The Pope was acknowledged only as neccesary for church political stabilty, which was tenuous at best. The King of Spain was of no importance except as a power to placate superficially for new world priviledges. The Jesuits' mining activities were carried on secretly because they were forbidden to participate from the beginning. There is no way they would mark their mineral properties and/or caches using the King's rules - it was the King who they were deceiving. The fact is that it is not acknowledged, even today, that they participated in mining activities in the new world. This makes it clear to the prudent observer that, if they were active miners, they certainly did not use a location code originating from their 'enemy', ie the King.

Your repeated postings should be redefined as theories of the 'Jesuit Code', not the 'King's Code' - they are two totally separate entities. [Of course, as you know, I don't support the existance of the 'King's Code in the first place.]

Please admit your error and move on. Your denial is damaging to your case.

 

[cw0909]

seems someone had access to the mining records,and in some cases it seems the jesuits
operated their own mines too. the articles site references to the material written,theses snips
are from the original scan pdf, the pdf can be downloaded accessed here
download and read ebook Prospectus and reports of the Bushell and of the Saint Louis Gold and Silver Mining Companies, of the Toltec Syndicate of Mines, of Aztec and Tyndall Districts, Arizona, with endorsements, reports, map, assays and newspaper ex
pg 7-8
REPORT ON THE BUSHELL MINE.
SUPERINTENDENT'S OFFICE,
BUSHELL GOLD AND SILVER MINING COMPANY,
TUCSON, Arizona, June 8th, 1878.
COL. JNO. D. GRAHAM,
Managing Director Toltee Syndicate,
San Francisco, Cal.
DEAR SIR : The Bushel! mine belonging to the Toltee Syndicate, lies
about half a mile north of Salero Hill, in the Tyndall Mining District, and
on the Hamilton lode.
It is easy of access ; with a few days work on the road we have made it
so a wagon can be driven on to the mine ; considerable work has been done
on this property many years ago; the trails can still be traced over the
mesas, on which the burros travelled, packing the ores down to the old
Tumacacori Mission Church, some 12 miles distant, where they were worked
by the Jesuit Fathers.
pg 11
LETTER FROM THOS. DAVIS.
TUCSON, ARIZONA, June 10th, 1878.
COL. JNO. D. GRAHAM,
Managing Director,- etc.
MY DEAR SIR : At the request of Supt. Magee, I send you enclosed a
list of various assays which have been made from ores of the Bushell,
Saint Louis and other mines, now the property of the Toltec Syndicate.
Let me very earnestly congratulate you upon your possession of these magnificent
mining claims, and also as to your great success in the Aztec Syndicate.
The change in the Aztec and Tyndall mining districts, since the
25th day of June, 1877, on which date Mr. Magee and myself began work
on the Aztec, is entirely unparalelled in my experience, and I have seen the
upsand downs of mining for half a century, and in almost all sections of the
country. Then we were entirely alone, creeping to our work with rifles
ready, leaving men on the lookout for Apaches ; and trembling in our huts at
Camp Toltec at night ; no roads but the old roads or trails made by the
Jesuit Fathers, and by the men afterwards murdered here by the Apache Indians,
while endeavoring to work these mines, Wrightson, Grosvenor, Slack,
Poston and others.
pg 13
[From the Tucson (Arizona) Star, June 13th; 1878.]
TOLTEC SYNDICATE OF MINES.
OLD PIONEERS AGAIN TO THE FRONT ORGANIZATION OF A NEW SYNDICATE
As we
said before, the mines are located in the Aztec and Tyndall districts, and
some of them have a history which at once stamps them among the most
important and desirable in the country. Some of theui have been worked
by the Jesuit Fathers, by an ancient process, the evidences of which still
linger about the mines. The properties have been held by the present
owners for the past three years, under all the dangers and difficulties incident
to the country from hostile Indians, and now place them in the Syndicate
pg 14
The Jesuit Fathers, who founded
the old Tumacacori Mission, on the Santa Cruz river, worked this mine
somewhat extensively. The ores are copper blend, copper, silver glance,
carbonates, and some chlorides. The beautiful blue and green colors
attracted the attention of the Indians, who were under the guidance of
the Church, who brought samples to the Fathers, who soon ascertained
their value.
pg 15-16
The Santa Oruz flows very near tne Sierra AUsco, at whose base
this evidence of Jesuit endeavor and sacrifice is seen a strange spectacle
indeed in so wild a land
The ruins of St. Joseph Mission, Tumacacori, are located on the west
side of the Santa Cruz, about a quarter of a mile from the dwelling of
Mr. King. There is abundant evidence of long continued cultivation in
the vicinity, and still with the rather shiftless farming of the present,
rancherias in the vicinity bring good returns. The mission buildings,
of which sufficient remains to show their character, were of large extent,
and yet cover a considerable area.
pg 17
The records and reports left by these daring explorers are in evidence of the
vast wealth barely touched in the Santa Rita, though native Aztec, Jesuit
priest and Spanish explorer have worked in them for centuries past. The importance
of this region can be seen when it is stated that seventy-five years ago
the Spanish records shows that there were 150 silver mines in operation within
fifteen miles circuit of the Presidio of Tubac. J. Ross Browne, in his decidedly
interesting work, the "Apache Country," as also in his reply to the general
government, on the mines and minerals of the United States, Colonel Cretnony in
a work on the Apaches, Bartlett's Personal Narrative of the United States
Boundary Survey, Dr. Rothrock of the Wheeler Expeditions, Professor Riymond,
Whipple, Emory, Cooke and other officers of the United States Ar.-ny, all
refer to both the mineral wealth and the natural beauty and attractiveness
of this region.
pg 27-28
Situated within fifteen miles of the Mexican border, it
lies directly in the center of the richest mineral belt discovered by the
Spanish explorers, who for three centuries prosecuted their researches through
this remote region. The learned Jesuit, Father Kino, reported to the Viceroy
of Spain, in 1767, that a scientific exploration of Sonora " would lead to the
discovery of gold and silver so marvelous that the discovery would be such
as never yet had been seen in the world." The proofs of this wealth were
found in many places, but chiefly at Arizona, within fifteen miles of Santa
Rita, where a piece of virgin silver was extracted from the earth weighing
275 pounds, upon which Don Diego Asmendi paid duties ; and it is recorded
that the King's Attorney brought suit for the duties on several other pieces
which weighed 4033 pounds; also for the recovery, as a curiosity, and therefore
belonging to the King, of a certain piece of silver of the weight of 2,700
pounds. Professor Blake, formerly State Geologist of California, Commissioner
to the Paris Exposition, Geological Chief to the San Domingo Commission,
&c., &o., says of this region that the extreme richness of the mines of
silver in the south-eastern prolongation of the mountains of Arizona has been
well attested by Humboldt, Ward, and others, (page 9,
"
Mining Magazine,
1859.") Ward contends (vol. I., pp. 127-160

 

[rangler]

Simplified for you, rangler, as follows.

[the only persons you have to simplify things for are the pareidolacs and cloud readers]

The Jesuits' allegience was to themselves first and foremost.

absolutely incorrect~!! The Pope"created the Jesuits by sanctioning them~! They were called the FOOT SOLDIERS OF THE POPE~!
The Pope was acknowledged only as neccesary for church political stabilty, which was tenuous at best.

AGAIN YOUR MAKING THIS STUFF UP....[THE JESUITS TOOK A FINAL 4TH VOW TO BE LOYAL TO THE POPE]
The King of Spain was of no importance except as a power to placate superficially for new world priviledges.

The King of Spain AGREED to the 80/20 split....you losing any credibility what so ever with these outrageous remarks

The Jesuits' mining activities were carried on secretly because they were forbidden to participate from the beginning.

The cover story that no one believes but you and maybe one other person, for what ever reason it fits your agenda.

Again you still falling for the cover story..easily penetrated if you do some work on the subject - after all the Jesuits were the early form of the CIA~!

[ex.the jesuits stole the forumla for cobalt ware from the Chinese and sold it to the Dutch [delftware]

I sure hope that the cover you are running for the jessies pays off for you, because you sure work hard at it..
talk about credibility..sheeesh~!
peace out
rangler
There is no way they would mark their mineral properties and/or caches using the King's rules -
Are you so stubborn that you dont realize what the quint was for and for whom?

it was the King who they were deceiving. The fact is that it is not acknowledged, even today, that they participated in mining activities in the new world.
This is so thinly veiled to make the statement ridiculous

This makes it clear to the prudent observer that, if they were active miners, they certainly did not use a location code originating from their 'enemy', ie the King.

This statement is "upside down and backwards" and cannot believed by serious true trackers~!

Your repeated postings should be redefined as theories of the 'Jesuit Code', not the 'King's Code' - they are two totally separate entities. [Of course, as you know, I don't support the existance of the 'King's Code in the first place.]

Please admit your error and move on. Your denial is damaging to your case.

Your continued disinformation and denial of jesuit mining in the new world is so obviously mistaken that anyone but the raw newbie knows better and propaganda will not help you, it only serves to uncover your motives. Thanks for going so far out on that limb...you did most of my work for me....
peace out
rangler

 

[rangler]

Thanks CW
for the post, it blows up springers contention that all the rich mines were in mexico..in the early years gold from 'mexico' was rich and plentiful, but in later years the mining moved north of the Rio Grand and mountains of Silver were shipped to spain...400 million found by just one guy near the dry tortugas
you can give me oro or plata, but no lead please
rangler

 

[desertmoons]

You should really do a bit more research rangler. The Jesuit definitely were not cozy with the pope toward the end. In fact I would say...well... just do your own research in other places than forums. Your belief they were so loyal to the pope and visa versa is so so wrong.

 

[Springfield]

Simplified for you, rangler, as follows.
...... Your continued disinformation and denial of jesuit mining in the new world is so obviously mistaken that anyone but the raw newbie knows better and propaganda will not help you, it only serves to uncover your motives. ....rangler

Since I originated this thread, you won't be able to delete my original post, so my statement remains for anyone to review and realize you are deflecting the arguement into your little corner of lala land again. Your debating skills need polishing, m'boy.

My motive? To encourage readers to be discriminating about what information they decide to accept. Anyone who cares will investigate the points I've made and arrive at their own conclusions. Those who don't care will continue to believe they're getting something for nothing from you.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ladies (D MOON) and gentlemen: the salt thingie was never cleared up. It was used to reduce the minerals to a chloride then processed to produce a silver or Gold bar. This was the orginal kings' method of collecting taxes and why all salt was property of the crown. It was replaced by the Mercury method.

B) Mercury was used principally in recovering the fines in a placer operation consisting of fines, or in exceptional ore. free Gold. Nuggets were caught by other physical methods.

C) I do not consider it logical to code a hidden object in a language or system that anyone outside of myself knows ??

Fascinating so far, continue.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Rawhide]

Springfield I hold your same views and that puts me at odds with the real treasure seekers on here.

Let me quote you: "Be that as it may, the point is this: the large number of ‘Spanish caches’ marked by the ‘King’s Code’ that you think you are following simply do not exist. There was no King’s Code, ala Kenworthy, in use in the American Southwest. The ‘King’s Code’ explanation of the relatively few genuine signs that are being discovered is a fantasy used to boost egos at the expense of the unwary. Have you seen Kenworthy’s proof? I thought not. Have those who claim to have the proof provided anything but talk?"

I cant take anything away from Kenworthy. But I did find the information only useful enough to get you close.

I will say I have found a hidden trail, not one you will find in any book. I will need time to take in all this info. But the Mercury and salt being own by the crown would lead to other means of processing. It would explain the cleanliness of the mine sites and camp grounds I have associated with the Spanish.

While the four books of the gospel can help decode what you are looking at. I have found works of art, in stone. I also have found other means to view a site that will give away clues. But most places I find are hard to get to, and dangerous to be around. These are things I felt Kenworthy left out. Most focus on published treasure hunters, I have found the guys who keep their mouth shut is the ones you want to know about. I believe Doc Noss knew enough to get the gold.

Lots of good info, but remember we are talking a few hundred years. What was allowed in the beginning was not was allowed in the end. You all are correct depending what time period you are speaking of. Dont forget the Mexican trails, outlaw(Pancho Villa), and the Indian trails.

Anything carved at 45' degree angles to form a shape or mark is man made.

For the good doctor who proclaims us all cloud readers, I have a prescription for you, you know who you are.

I absoluitely love everything springfield puts out. There is one other who I wont mention is a true tracker on here and has taught me more in one hike that I will ever learn in a book. I have followed some other here also and can say you all go with me when I go tracking.

There was a time I would not worry about what I was finding, but some of you here are very good. But you dont need me to tell you that. This year is just getting started for me, I cant wait to post some pictures.

I dont publish my research and I applaud those that do. I dont maintain a library or picture history. There is a sequence and if you follow it you will find something. The info posted here just confirms that we are all right and all wrong.....I love it. When the Jesuits first came and developed the mines, they were also the Governor of a area. With that charge certain things came to them. Now this changed over time. Also one did not need Mercury or salt to process ore to a point. I know I do it myself. Also other ores was mined not just gold and silver.

I really like this thread.