Which one? AT Pro or Sand Shark?

[fishingdevil]

Hi there,

I have narrow down my choice for my first metal detector to either one of the above.
May I know which will be a better choice for beach usage and why?

I am totally new to this, so any advice will be most helpful.

Thank you very much in advance!

 

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[lookindown]

On the Florida gulf coast, the AT pro will run stable in the water and wet sand. It is two inches shallower than my CZ21. You have to run it standard mode...pro mode will false. People think that all single freq detectors are no good in salt enviroments but the AT PRO is different.

 

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[dbsmokey]

A whole lotta opinion. Do your own research and you'll find the Sand Shark isjust as good or better than any other PI costing TWICE as much. If you want to spend a lot of money, listen to the monkey, if you want to start finding treasure and pay for your machine and scoop - get a Sand Shark. Here is just some of the gold I found my first season with the Sand Shark.

It's not an opinion that PI detectors that can GB (the SS cannot) are superior in some conditions, it's a fact. It's not an opinion that the ability to change pulse delay (the SS has a fixed pulse delay) leads to superior performance in some conditions, it's a fact. It's not an opinion that Tesoro provided unsavory customer service to me and White's has pummeled them, in my experiences. Don't just listen to Terry's "opinions," follow the links I posted above with commentary from experienced users, some of whom are engineers who helped designed metal detectors. There are other links as well. Undoubtedly, the SS works well for some, but there are, in many cases, superior alternatives.

P.S. Terry: I will assume you have been misreading my name and gently correct you by saying there is no 'n' in my username. Thanks.

 

[DewGuru]

https://www.facebook.com/TesoroSandShark

Have a gander through the photos and albums of what I, and others, have found with the shark.

You be the judge.

 

[Terry Soloman]

It's not an opinion that PI detectors that can GB (the SS cannot) are superior in some conditions, it's a fact. It's not an opinion that the ability to change pulse delay (the SS has a fixed pulse delay) leads to superior performance in some conditions, it's a fact. It's not an opinion that Tesoro provided unsavory customer service to me and White's has pummeled them, in my experiences. Don't just listen to Terry's "opinions," follow the links I posted above with commentary from experienced users, some of whom are engineers who helped designed metal detectors. There are other links as well. Undoubtedly, the SS works well for some, but there are, in many cases, superior alternatives.

P.S. Terry: I will assume you have been misreading my name and gently correct you by saying there is no 'n' in my username. Thanks.

Sorry Mokey! You're still wrong as you ever were though. You must be a Whites dealer - LMAO! There are maybe two people in the entire world that claim to have had a problem with Tesoro customer service, and they are BOTH Whites dealers!

PS - Show us YOUR gold Mokey!

 

[dbsmokey]

Sorry Mokey! You're still wrong as you ever were though. You must be a Whites dealer - LMAO! There are maybe two people in the entire world that claim to have had a problem with Tesoro customer service, and they are BOTH Whites dealers!

PS - Show us YOUR gold Mokey!

I wish I were a White's dealer!!!! What an honor it would be. But perhaps I'm a White's dealer who is curious about the CZ-21 and Garrett Machines. That make a bucketload of sense! You can make all the personal jabs and call all the names you want but it doesn't change the truth. It is, again, a disreputable and desperate tactic. It would be entertaining to read some novel jabs, accusations and insults instead of the recycled ones you tend to utilize, however. I will stick with the facts, instead, thanks!

My statements are not only mine, but echo the opinions of some very experienced, educated and knowledgeable people. All one needs to do is follow the posted links and perform a few simple searches.

Just because you only know two people who have complaints about Tesoro doesn't mean there aren't more than two. You claim anybody who complains about Tesoro's service is a competitive dealer? What utter nonsense! You definitely have proven to be a rather anemic source of accurate information who is stuck in repeat mode and certainly aren't "all knowing" as it relates to metal detecting. There are opinions that vary from yours that are, judging from your mannerism and track record on this forum and at least two others, more reputable.

 

[Terry Soloman]

I wish I were a White's dealer!!!! What an honor it would be. But perhaps I'm a White's dealer who is curious about the CZ-21 and Garrett Machines. That make a bucketload of sense! You can make all the personal jabs and call all the names you want but it doesn't change the truth. It is, again, a disreputable and desperate tactic. It would be entertaining to read some novel jabs, accusations and insults instead of the recycled ones you tend to utilize, however. I will stick with the facts, instead, thanks!

My statements are not only mine, but echo the opinions of some very experienced, educated and knowledgeable people. All one needs to do is follow the posted links and perform a few simple searches.

Just because you only know two people who have complaints about Tesoro doesn't mean there aren't more than two. You claim anybody who complains about Tesoro's service is a competitive dealer? What utter nonsense! You definitely have proven to be a rather anemic source of accurate information who is stuck in repeat mode and certainly aren't "all knowing" as it relates to metal detecting. There are opinions that vary from yours that are, judging from your mannerism and track record on this forum and at least two others, more reputable.

Show us your gold! We have seen your words and heard your "opinion" - which won't buy a cup of coffee! How about some finds with your magic machines?

 

[TallTom]

It's not an opinion that Tesoro provided unsavory customer service to me and White's has pummeled them, in my experiences.

Really? Do you perhaps mean "unsatisfactory", not "unsavory"?

By the way, I've had excellent customer service from Tesoro.
I don't know if I'd call it savory, but it has certainly been satisfactory.

--Tom

 

[lookindown]

MY DETECTOR IS BETTER THAN YOUR DETECTOR...LMAO.

 

[Ace350]

Now this is starting to get funny!
I hope no one gets their feelings hurt!

 

[dbsmokey]

Really? Do you perhaps mean "unsatisfactory", not "unsavory"?

By the way, I've had excellent customer service from Tesoro.
I don't know if I'd call it savory, but it has certainly been satisfactory.

--Tom

Tom:

See this link: unsavory - definition of unsavory by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.. No, I meant what I said!! I am glad you have had glowing customer service from Tesoro. I won't deny many have. I will deny the ludicrous claim that Tesoro never screws up, and if someone claims they did, they must be a "White's dealer." Utter nonsense!! You can call it what you like.

I will also not deny, to the rest of you, that the Sand Shark has been an excellent detector for you. I am happy for you if it is/was; truly! It wasn't for me; it sucks in high black sand areas of Kauai; and mine came broken. Terry may ignore the fact that the SS lacks ground balance and the ability to adjust pulse delay; and he has and will deny the advantages thereof. However, it is, for a rational person, undeniable that, in certain conditions, these two adjustments are quite important and perhaps a requirement to have a PI machine perform properly.

He has attempted to discredit my claim that Tesoro had poor customer service in my experience (calling me a liar, a story-teller, a White's dealer), but he really should cease with that failed attempt because he really doesn't know what transpired. My suggestion to him is to, by all means, support the detector brand(s) he loves, but also leave room for criticism, because no one company/brand/detector is perfect; claiming such only reveals shortsightedness and ignorance. I forewarned Tesoro that I would publicly expose their mishap with me; unless they attempted to make it right. I certainly don't mind Terry making his "broken record" plugs for Tesoro, but, for the time being, I will refute his blanket claims about their service with the experience I had. Thanks!

 

[dbsmokey]

Show us your gold! We have seen your words and heard your "opinion" - which won't buy a cup of coffee! How about some finds with your magic machines?

"Magic machines" are your words not mine. Don't attempt to put words in my mouth. I never claimed they are magic machines; only better than the SS in certain conditions.

I don't share my finds with anyone but close friends and family; at least I haven't for quite some time. Thank goodness, Terry, you qualify as neither!! It isn't a requirement to prove the fact that:
#1 Tesoro failed to provide me with good customer service
#2 My SS was broken out the of the box
#3 The SS I had falsed in the sand an on the black rocks in Kauai
#4 The SS lacks ground balance and pulse delay adjustment, making it and inferior PI detector in certain conditions


Terry, I don't care if you make further feeble attempts to discredit the above with more ridiculous claims/jabs/personal insults and/or by minimizing what you think I might or might not have found. It is ironic you attempt to use the "finds" issue on me now; one for which you have rightly been the receiving end of criticism in the past.

 

[fishingdevil]

woah... you guys are making me feel bad... nonetheless, many thanks for the input that i am getting..

honestly, i am really confused by the many claims and it seem a trip down the road of testing for my own is required... which can be rather expensive.

i had thought Tiger Shark is the answer since it can disc and it works well in salt. but the inputs given seem to point that it is not necessary so. which made me reconsider a PI unit... Sand Shark.
problem is, a local MDist here says that he basically gets a signal every few steps which equates to a lot of digging due to the amount of rubbish we have here.

the shortlisted MD that i have are all half the price of the high-end proven units that the pros are after... excal and cz21... which i think makes more sense for me to purchase 2 mid range detectors for different use instead of one for just one application... (and since my family will be with me, an additional ear will always be helpful to cover the dry sand while i cover the wet seems to make a lot of sense)

so, 3 days after registration on this forum... i am still no wiser on which ones to buy for my wet salty mineralised rubbish filled beaches...

i need divine help... lol

 

[Terry Soloman]

It isn't that hard FishingDevil, just up your budget and get a Multi-Frequency VLF, OR use a PI in the wet, and a VLF on the dry. Here is an article I wrote for a sponsor a while back that may help you:

The quest for the perfect metal detector to this point has been quixotic. Minelab, has come the closest to building a fully submersible beach machine that can discriminate out iron in wet sand and saltwater. The “Excalibur” uses Broad Band Spectrum, or “BBS” technology, and retails for about $1,500.00.

According to Minelab, their BBS operating system, “simultaneously transmits, receives and analyses a broad band of multiple frequencies to deliver substantial detection depth, high sensitivity and accurate discrimination for a wide range of target types.” The key takeaway here is “multiple frequencies.” Unfortunately, radio waves regardless of their frequency still have to be filtered and balanced in heavily conductive wet-ocean sand and highly mineralized saltwater. That limits the systems depth capabilities.

Single frequency VLF machines (Very Low Frequency), have even more limitations in the harsh saltwater environment. Take for example the Tesoro Lobo Super Traq. This VLF single frequency machine (17.9Khz) is one of the finest and deepest gold nugget finders on the market today. The Lobo Super Traq, is capable of finding BB-sized gold nuggets seven-inches deep in heavily mineralized ground, or a nickel in dry beach sand at 12-inches. Put that same nugget – or even the nickel, seven-inches deep in wet saltwater sand and the Lobo could walk right over it while chattering, or maybe without seeing it at all. Why?

The magnetic iron sands (“Black Sands”), salt, and high concentrations of other minerals in the water and sand conspire to bounce the radio waves away from the target. Conductivity and mineralization act like a shield around the target and create white noise that must be filtered electronically. Think of it as turning on your bright headlights in a heavy fog at night. All that powerful light is diffused and causes a complete white out – you can’t see anything three-feet past the hood of your car! However when you turn on your yellow fog lights, you can see a little further – not as far as you could in clear daylight, but further. That is why all radio wave machines must be “ground balanced” or tuned, to maximize their depth potential, and why BBS filters and multi-frequencies are so effective – yet still limited.

Unlike BBS and VLF metal detectors, which constantly send and receive thousands of low frequency radio waves per second, a Pulse Induction (PI) metal detector fires high-voltage pulses into the sand several hundred times per second. If no metal is present the electric pulse decays at a uniform rate with no anomalies. When metal is present a small “eddy” current flows through it causing the voltage decay time to increase, which creates a measurable anomaly. Unlike VLF radio waves, electronic pulses are impervious to the effects of conductivity and mineralization, and are unaffected by salt or black sands.

PI metal detectors give the user superior depth capabilities in all metal detecting situations and soil conditions. Using the same heavy fog at night metaphor that I referred to earlier, pulse induction is like headlights that cut completely through the fog as if it were not there at all. The trade-off for that added depth and clarity is the inability to discriminate, or block out iron targets that you generally don’t want to waste time and energy digging. While a pulse induction machine detects all metals without discrimination, the minute differences in the signal tone and quality can give a skilled and experienced operator a clue as to what the target may, or may not be.

Will one machine do it all? Not in my opinion. I always advise new beach metal detecting hobbyists to have a VLF machine for dry sand (as well as their other dirt detecting needs), and a PI machine for the water and wet-sand (and deep farm field and relic hunting). In truth, it all comes down to what you prefer and can afford. Good Luck!

 

[Terry Soloman]

"Magic machines" are your words not mine. Don't attempt to put words in my mouth. I never claimed they are magic machines; only better than the SS in certain conditions.

I don't share my finds with anyone but close friends and family; at least I haven't for quite some time. Thank goodness, Terry, you qualify as neither!! It isn't a requirement to prove the fact that:
#1 Tesoro failed to provide me with good customer service
#2 My SS was broken out the of the box
#3 The SS I had falsed in the sand an on the black rocks in Kauai
#4 The SS lacks ground balance and pulse delay adjustment, making it and inferior PI detector in certain conditions


Terry, I don't care if you make further feeble attempts to discredit the above with more ridiculous claims/jabs/personal insults and/or by minimizing what you think I might or might not have found. It is ironic you attempt to use the "finds" issue on me now; one for which you have rightly been the receiving end of criticism in the past.

So basically, you have no finds worth sharing?

Tesoro told you that the damage YOU did to your machine was not manufacturer related and that you would have to pay for repairing the machine you flooded.

"If" your Sand Shark was "broken out of the box" why didn't you contact your dealer and send it back for a new machine?

You took your "Broken" machine to a beach anyway, and it 'falsed' on hot rocks? LOL

The Sand Shark has a pre-set ground balance and a 20us pulse delay, which makes it uber-stable both IN and out of saltwater, and the EASIEST PI to use on the market.
The ground balancing and pulse delay argument is a total red herring. If you have ANY knowledge you know that as soon as you get IN the water you need anywhere from 17-20us to keep a PI machine stable (depending on depth), and up on the wet sand if you go lower than 15us you again have stability problems (that is why Dual Field owners can "hear" waves going by in chest deep water). The difference in sensitivity and depth between a machine running pulse delays of 15us or 20us is so small as to be insignificant, and at 10us is just too unstable on MOST saltwater beaches (chatter).

I USE the Sand Shark with GREAT success. I USE my REAL name in EVERY forum I belong to, and I am CONSTANTLY attacked for speaking my mind and giving my opinions by a plethora of folks who have decided their opinions and beliefs are more important or factual than mine. Whatever blows your skirt up is OK with me.

Try and get over yourself “DBSmokey.” I have.

 

[Ace350]

And that concludes round 4 of Mokey VS Solomon.
Stay tuned while we go to station identification.

Ok, back to the original question.

Fishingdevil,
Given your budget and and the limited choices you have for the area you will be hunting.
It is my "opinion" that you might want to consider buying a used Minelab Excalibur.
They can be had for what you are willing to pay.
That's what I did. I purchased mine from a pawn shop for $600 and it came with quite a few extras including a straight shaft. If you go that route, do your homework or you may get burned. Read the online manual on it and watch a few YouTube videos on what it sounds like when the coil passes over coins and gold. Test it out thoroughly in the store and make sure everything works properly before you commit to purchase. Don't buy one that has anything wrong with them. They are too expensive to fix and when you don't know for sure what exactly happened to it you open yourself up to a whole lot of aggrevation and loss of money.
There is also a classified section on this forum that you can usually find a few Excaliburs for sale in.

I bet you thought in the beginning this was going to be an easy decision.

 

[lookindown]

I believe the Excal is the best beach machine because the majority of beach hunters use them. I didnt get one because they seem to break down a lot and return time and customer service dont get good reviews...I believe PIs are the deepest detectors, but no discrimination...I bought a CZ21...is it the best beach detector made?...No, but its the best one for ME.

 

[Atlas]

Just my two cents and I'm a dedicated water hunter.

My water hunting arsenal consits of:

Old Excal 1000: Good in Fresh and Salt water. Just got it repaired after 10 years of use Customer Service was fine. I've found lots of gold and silver with this machine.

AT Gold: New last year Fresh water hunts only 5 gold rings last year. The small coil is killer in the water. Advantages are lighter weight and smaller coil footprint in the water. No Good For Salt Water.

CTX 3030: New last year used on Florida beaches in February. Great Machine with excellent depth in wet and dry sand. Found some silver rings and gold charm in the water. Great disc lots of info but expensive. Great in Fresh and salt.

Older Surf PI: This was my first beach machine and I got the Excal shortly later. The beaches I was hitting had lots of nails from burnt pallets. Still It is very good on say a Florida beach in the wet where targets may be widely spaced. Advantages are it's light weight and bullet proof design and dependabillity built like a tank.

Oh by the way my best gold chain and 3 walkers in one day were found in fresh water with my brothers Tiger Shark.

My reccomendation if you had to have one machine for the salt water beach and on a budget ====>> Excal.

Prediction: you will end up with more than one beach/water machine.

 

[fishingdevil]

And that concludes round 4 of Mokey VS Solomon.
Stay tuned while we go to station identification.

Ok, back to the original question.

Fishingdevil,
Given your budget and and the limited choices you have for the area you will be hunting.
It is my "opinion" that you might want to consider buying a used Minelab Excalibur.
They can be had for what you are willing to pay.
That's what I did. I purchased mine from a pawn shop for $600 and it came with quite a few extras including a straight shaft. If you go that route, do your homework or you may get burned. Read the online manual on it and watch a few YouTube videos on what it sounds like when the coil passes over coins and gold. Test it out thoroughly in the store and make sure everything works properly before you commit to purchase. Don't buy one that has anything wrong with them. They are too expensive to fix and when you don't know for sure what exactly happened to it you open yourself up to a whole lot of aggrevation and loss of money.
There is also a classified section on this forum that you can usually find a few Excaliburs for sale in.

I bet you thought in the beginning this was going to be an easy decision.

you are absolutely right! i really thought this was going to be easy!
too bad, we do not have such pawn shops here that i can try my luck... MD is almost non-existent here and thus, making it a very lucrative hobby... I HOPE! haha..

 

[fishingdevil]

Just my two cents and I'm a dedicated water hunter.

My water hunting arsenal consits of:

Old Excal 1000: Good in Fresh and Salt water. Just got it repaired after 10 years of use Customer Service was fine. I've found lots of gold and silver with this machine.

AT Gold: New last year Fresh water hunts only 5 gold rings last year. The small coil is killer in the water. Advantages are lighter weight and smaller coil footprint in the water. No Good For Salt Water.

CTX 3030: New last year used on Florida beaches in February. Great Machine with excellent depth in wet and dry sand. Found some silver rings and gold charm in the water. Great disc lots of info but expensive. Great in Fresh and salt.

Older Surf PI: This was my first beach machine and I got the Excal shortly later. The beaches I was hitting had lots of nails from burnt pallets. Still It is very good on say a Florida beach in the wet where targets may be widely spaced. Advantages are it's light weight and bullet proof design and dependabillity built like a tank.

Oh by the way my best gold chain and 3 walkers in one day were found in fresh water with my brothers Tiger Shark.

My reccomendation if you had to have one machine for the salt water beach and on a budget ====>> Excal.

Prediction: you will end up with more than one beach/water machine.

i fish a lot a few years ago... and in search of a good reel and rod, i did a lot of research just like now... and yeah! you are right to predict that i will end up with more than one for SURE... hahaha... i can almost bet every dime i have on it