Whats this? Military related?

[KangaWoo]

Hi,
This was an item that was part of a large lot of military badges/medals I recently picked up.
Hoping someone can pass on some knowledge about it.



Thanks in advance

 

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[tamrock]

From the striped pattern and colors though faded leads me to think it's Irish in origin. The silver is 80% pure. It could have something to do with a military nurse. I say that because of a silver hallmarked buckle I purchased once that I found to be an Irish nurse buckle from the late Victorian, WWI era, which is also the age I believe this item is from?.

 

[Tony in SC]

How long is it? I agree with tamrock on the Victorian idea. With the monogram I think it's a personal piece, maybe a ribbon to hold a medal or watch.

 

[nhbenz]

There were watch fobs made like that, although this seems a bit long if it's the size I'm envisioning it to be (what size is it?)
-oops, Tony covered these thoughts while I was searching for similar items

 

[laurahatt214]

What ever it is, that is a pretty fine!

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[NOLA_Ken]

I'd agree with it being watch fob. More of an Irish Pride piece with the owners monogram on it instead of military though. Late Victorian to early 1900's would be my guess. It's pretty cool!

 

[DCMatt]

Here is one with a very similar shield and the engraving looks to be similar as well. The seller says early 1900's.

 

[DCMatt]

 

[Tony in SC]

Great minds think alike!!!!

There were watch fobs made like that, although this seems a bit long if it's the size I'm envisioning it to be (what size is it?)
-oops, Tony covered these thoughts while I was searching for similar items

 

[Coach Stack]

iontach a aimsiú, bród na hÉireann! (Great find, Irish Pride) Yes, I can pronounce that

 

[DCMatt]

Here is a post card with the same emblem. The page was in German with no explanation. Can anyone read it?

 

[DCMatt]

The calligraphy is called a 'zirkel'. I believe yours is from a university student organization or fraternity in the very early 1900's in the Baltic states.

 

[DCMatt]

Wachenberg castle in Weinheim, Germany showing zirkel of student organizations at the entrance.

 

[namxat]

Kangawoo,

What you have is a Zipfel, part of the couleur of a full member of Studentenverbindung.

Kindly see here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couleur

It seems to me these are the colors of a still existing Landsmannschaft (not 100% sure): https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alte_Leipziger_Landsmannschaft_Afrania

I would estimate it from say 1870 to start of WW I. Wonder how it washed up in Australia, most likley brought by an Immigrant. Sad that such things show up on Fleamarkets! Should be proud family heirlooms (You get normaly as full member the your Band&Cap with you in the grave, Zipfel remain with the family).

Maybe you heard of it: Studentenverbindungen are these people which still fight each other with sharp rapiers and are proud of it.

There should normaly an engraving on the backside, if you post a photo, I would try to translate it and would explain whatit means.


Thanks for showing&Greetings to Australia. Had a great time there as an expat.

Namxat (CG! XX,XX; GE!)

 

[DCMatt]

Braunschweiger Burschenschaft Alemannia

Is this it?

 

[namxat]

No, do not think so.

Colors never change and Alemannia Braunschweig is Black / Gold / Red. Zirkel can be identical or near identical between Alemannia and Afrania since it consists V, C, F from vivat, crescat, floreat and A from Alemannia / Afrania.

Afrania Leipzig / Heidelberg is still my guess: Colors are right and Zirkel is only a little different. They may exchanged a an L for Leipzig with H for Heidelberg when they were re-founded after the war in Heidelberg or my even just added an L out of sentimentality for good old Leipzig.

As an explanation: Hitler disolved all free Student Associations and the Communists in East Germany, Poland ect. would not allow refoundation in their territories. The communists were not in more favour off free association and free speech than the Nazies.

So many Associations were re-founded in West Germany. Thus Afrania Leipzig became Afrania Leipzig zu Heidelberg.

 

[DCMatt]

Does this explain why many German military officers in WWII had facial scars?

 

[DCMatt]

Or am I simply a naive American who has fallen for the old Hollywood ruse?

 

[namxat]

Well, the officer with a Schmiss (thats how its called actually) and maybe even with a monocle is kind of a stereotype. But given that having an university degree gives you a far better chance for promotion, well yes I assume that people from Studentassociations were overrepresented in the officer ranks.

Look at Skorzeny e.g., I guess he was one of the most famous and notorious (Sorry, cant figure out how to copy a photo in).

Even now and than with Members in low singe digit percentages of total student population you see one:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Henning_Schulte-Noelle_hires.jpg

(Former CEO of the largest german insurance)

 

[DCMatt]

Skorzeny

Very interesting info namxat. Thx for posting.