What happened to Whites as industry leader?

[☠ Cipher]

Not sure why you lumped the Deus in with this 28 frequency conversation - that's a minelab only technology and yes, the 3030 and eTrac have relatively poor recovery speeds. The Deus has multiple operating frequencies but is not a multifrequency machine like the Minelab since you only operate at one frequency at a time. As such, it can be adjusted to trade recovery speed (up to insane levels) with depth and its strength (and depth detection capability) really lies in its ability to enable the operator to audibly discriminate iron from desirable targets with its "full tones" approach and ability to instantly select a number of customizable program profiles. The tones on the Deus will faithfully "id" a target even when a visual target ID number is unable to be displayed due to the depth of the target. I know this thread is about Whites, but just wanted people to not get the mistaken impression that Deus was like a Minelab CTX or eTrac regarding trading depth for recovery speed. They couldn't be more different.

Oh, I don't know, I just thought it would be fun to assign qualities to the Deus it doesn't have. A little mix and match. Tomorrow I may lump the CTX in with wireless coils. Lol. See, it's fun.

 

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[☠ Cipher]

I don't see them behind either of these companies, my MXT will hold it's own against any companies detectors out there. Will someone that pays a lot more for their detector concede that theirs isn't any better most likely not in most people's cases. HH

Don't take me wrong, when I say they are behind, I don't mean in the depth department. The MXT, V3i and even a couple FT machines will give the CTX a run for its money in the depth department, even surpassing it in milder soil. I've argued mightily with people who haven't even used a CTX that think just because the price tag is higher means it's deeper than everything else. It's surely not. When I say that I mean only in terms of features. The V3i is feature rich and sophisticated to be sure, but it's not the total package the CTX is. The CTX is comparatively very accurate even in pretty nasty soil. The CTX is a true all terrain. I'd need the V3i and the MX Sport to do what the CTX does. (And for vferrari, let nothing I say hereafter be conflated with the capabilities of the CTX. The CTX is its own machine with its own capabilities and is not the XP Deus, wink) As far as the Deus goes, behind in the sense of wireless capabilities, which I'm not convinced at this point is an asset. I'm not a Deus fan. I wouldn't care to charge several accessories every other day and then have to have hard wired batteries replaced every few years. Yet, most people seem to like the idea of wireless everything. Personally I think Whites and Minelab (neither of which are an XP Deus by the way, wink again) have this right. Keep the coil wired, but headphones wireless. That's my personal preference anyway.

 

[Deft Tones]

I don't see them behind either of these companies, my MXT will hold it's own against any companies detectors out there. Will someone that pays a lot more for their detector concede that theirs isn't any better most likely not in most people's cases. HH

I concede that 80% of all good targets I come across could be found by many, many, less expensive machines. For the vast majority of detectorists the ace250 or similar would be more than enough to find that 80%. The issue becomes one of how fickle is the person behind the handle, IMO.

 

[wingmaster]

Yep but not all targets are that way the parks here have been pounded since the 70's and the only silver left is all 10"+ deep with a good amount of trash mixed in, I can still pull silver dimes out of that park but not very many will even detect there anymore as you and your detector need to be very good to still find the silver there. Yep I agree you need to know your detector, I see people all the time that don't give a detector a chance or they don't think it's deep enough because someone told them the best coil for this detector is the 6x9DD and that's all they use is that coil and the 6x9DD is not the coil for great depth. HH

I concede that 80% of all good targets I come across could be found by many, many, less expensive machines. For the vast majority of detectorists the ace250 or similar would be more than enough to find that 80%. The issue becomes one of how fickle is the person behind the handle, IMO.

 

[vferrari]

Oh, I don't know, I just thought it would be fun to assign qualities to the Deus it doesn't have. A little mix and match. Tomorrow I may lump the CTX in with wireless coils. Lol. See, it's fun.

Nice. You have snarkiness down pat. wink wink. Or you could have just put, "For example, regarding Minelab, people need to understand that 28 simultaneous frequencies..." And then I would have been one of the people who could understand your point. You just left the Deus hanging there without a supporting argument (like you provided for the "Minelab") regarding why people like me are fooled by marketing into thinking that the Deus is deeper than Whites.

Your follow up post with the multiple eye twitches (may want to see a doctor about that), clarified your issues with the Deus and Minelab and I agree with some of them (with the possible exception of the emphasis on detection depth which is subjective and may not be the most important detector performance attribute in all situations). Putting all the smarts in the coil is a blessing AND a curse. Makes for a lightweight, compact all purpose machine you can keep in car without taking up any space, strap to your back for back country hunting and with the ability to quickly change coils. On the flip side, the coils are very expensive and there is not a variety of relatively affordable, specialty accessory coils available like what you can get with most traditional wired detectors and the wireless coil design means you need a kludgy antenna hack to make the thing work with the coils submerged. The charging (Deus makes it simple with multiple plugs on a single cable) and battery issue is a nunner so far for me, but point taken when the battery does give up the ghost, you are without that coil for a couple days and out 50 bucks. I am brand agnostic. The right tool for the job (Excal for wet salt beach hunting, Fisher F75 for the variety of small and large accessory coils that enable searches in tight spots or large ground coverage as needed/MXT for similar reasons and for ability to better tweak sensitivity settings, minelab GPX for hot soil relic hunting, Whites MX Sport for all weather general purpose hunting (though with a watertight phone case, the Deus is now serving that purpose just fine so the MXS may not be long for this world), and the XP Deus is my all purpose workhorse).

Not sure it really matters whether Whites, or Tesoro, or First Texas, or Garrett, or XP, or Minelab, or Nokta or ?? are the industry leader. What matters is that all these manufacturers remain viable so that the detectorist has plenty of choices to select his optimal tool and that competition ensures prices remain reasonable. IMO.

 

[doggoneitdignit]

Not sure it really matters whether Whites, or Tesoro, or First Texas, or Garrett, or XP, or Minelab, or Nokta or ?? are the industry leader. What matters is that all these manufacturers remain viable so that the detectorist has plenty of choices to select his optimal tool and that competition ensures prices remain reasonable. IMO.

Here Here to the last note mentioned. to yo mate.

 

[doggoneitdignit]

I like other then what the detector does for depth(yes the biggest usually when shopping I don't disagree with this) , separation, features and all that yes most important. I like the weight and now in particular the designs that are out to be up there as well for a $1000 or more machine.

Hands down Makro Racer, the Nokta Impact and also the design and sleekness of the Deus,very sexxy indeed. Wireless only important is the headphones for me too, what else is there? There is nothing wrong with the CTX and V3i, MXT, Fisher 75 etc.. but betcha these system designers out there are thinking of something similar in the future to these just mentioned as a advancement next to design in there lines vs cost.

but also to add to what vferrari may have forgot to mention that manufactures stock coil is usually calibrated and tested to the hardware of the machine to provide the best product.

"Putting all the smarts in the coil is a blessing AND a curse. Makes for a lightweight, compact all purpose machine you can keep in car without taking up any space, strap to your back for back country hunting and with the ability to quickly change coils. On the flip side, the coils are very expensive and there is not a variety of relatively affordable, specialty accessory coils available like what you can get with most traditional wired detectors and the wireless coil design means you need a kludgy antenna hack to make the thing work with the coils submerged."

The smarts I imagine you were thinking the same thing I mentioned on the calibration and testing come to think of it had to re-read what you said by "putting in all the smarts"

Cheers again.

 

[Saving Tennessee History]

I'm coming in late on this, ...I have owned the White's MXT, DFX300, MXT Pro, Vision, V3, TDI, and MX Sport. I like White's because it is made and supported in America, many models still have the rugged sturdy metal control boxes, and they go deep. I read that someone said that the MXT gets as deep as the V3 ,...I have both and find that not to be the case. I have had all the big search coils from SEF 18" coils to the MXT Max made by White's. The V3 is going to get deeper hands down. For $700 dollars I would save up a little more and get a used V3 because you know White's will repair it if need be. That will hold you over until you can upgrade to a newer machine. The MXT is a great detector in the $700s , but the V3 has multiple frequencies and holds the edge on depth.

 

[Wiganer]

I don't know about Whites technology slipping, but there customer service is. I emailed them on Sunday at sweethome about an issue with my dualfield, on Tuesday I phone them as no one responded, only to be told to email this guy directly again at sweethome,so I did, and 2 more days passed so I called again, only to be put through to the person's voice mail, so I called reception straight back and was told "we are very busy" but we have left the guy a notice on his desk to contact you tomorrow. Guess what , no contact today as they promised. So if the don't contact me Friday, I will take further action, as this is not customer service. My machine is 7 weeks old��

 

[CC_IN_CA]

The MX Sport debacle did a lot in the forum community to hurt their reputation. It gave a lot of fodder to those who are loyal to other brands and models when new people ask for recommendations etc. I think they did the right thing though. They didn't pretend there wasn't an issue and blame their problems on the consumer. They shut production down and fixed them. Hell, I've seen another company with a problem just as widespread act as if it's not a problem.

I am a long time Whites user, and broke down and bought a Teknetics Eurotek Pro and deeply regret it. It soon became apparent it has several serious firmware issues in pinpoint mode. Looking at forum posts, Teknetics has had complaints on this for three years but continue to sell this defective machine. Whites would NEVER do this.

First Texas owns Teknetics, Fisher, and Bounty Hunter. I will never buy another product from any of these companies. Buyer Beware!

 

[vferrari]

I am a long time Whites user, and broke down and bought a Teknetics Eurotek Pro and deeply regret it. It soon became apparent it has several serious firmware issues in pinpoint mode. Looking at forum posts, Teknetics has had complaints on this for three years but continue to sell this defective machine. Whites would NEVER do this.

First Texas owns Teknetics, Fisher, and Bounty Hunter. I will never buy another product from any of these companies. Buyer Beware!

Super nit issue compared to the Whites MX Sport debacle that bit me in the butt AND it took them some time to own up to ALL the myriad of issues and fix them (but not a recall fix, which I think is not totally owning up to their mistake, especially for the faceplate watertightness defect). But that did not stop me from buying two different used Whites detectors after that experience. Not because of the way Whites eventually handled the MX Sport issue, which was not stellar, but because I knew based on feedback from users that the those detectors had the features and performance needed for the task at hand. Therefore, in my opinion, kind of an overreaction to condemn an entire Brand based on such a minor issue. But that is the beauty of a consumer driven free market, it is indeed your right to speak with your wallet in such a manner. And it is that collective consumer "vote" that determines whether a company like Whites stays an industry "leader". If Whites falls off the mountain, it is up to Whites to determine WHY the consumers voted that way.

 

[jjack9977]

I luckily didn't experience the MX Sport rollout issues. All I know is that I'm very happy with the end result. The way it performs reminds me of my F75 LTD, only waterproof. Between the MX Sport and the Bullseye TRX I became impressed enough with Whites to give the V3i a go. I'm not so much a brand loyal guy either, but I do have a soft spot for First Texas. It hasn't been until the last few months that I started moving away from First Texas to get into more modern water and multifrequency machines. Personally I don't see Whites as being particularly behind at this point. If the V3i were waterproof I don't feel like I would be missing much of anything by not having a CTX-3030. The 28 frequency thing is a marketing ploy. FBS machines do not actually transmit, receive and process 28 frequencies simultaneously. When it comes down to what it actually uses, it doesn't process any more than the V3i. Each machine has its strongpoints. The CTX has a broader frequency range (although it's curiously not as hot as you'd expect on very small gold), but the V3i gives you the ability to use all frequencies at once or pick one at a time. The CTX has Target Trace, which I consider awesome, but the V3i has twice the target resolution. You can go back and forth like this for a while, and I did as I researched and rented these machines. I didn't come away with the feeling that Whites is behind. Money was no object within the confines of these machines and I chose the V3i. I may eventually add the CTX to my collection as well if I see a good deal. The Deus never even entered that top tier equation to me for two simple reasons plus a couple that Cipher pointed out. But the main reasons are that it cannot run frequencies simultaneously, and although it gets respectable depth, it doesn't push the limits like my other machines. Many may disagree but depth is the most important factor, all else being reasonably close. The sink rate of older valuable relics and coinage is beyond the reach of most machines in many soil types. Dankowski was able to demonstrate that in some soils the first pull tabs dropped in 1962 had a sink rate of nearly 10". So every last bit of depth you can get matters greatly if you want to get serious about finding the oldest possible items. What I like about the V3i most is the best of both worlds. In mild soil running multiple frequencies is a disadvantage because you're splitting power among those frequencies. Here the V3i allows you to focus on one. As you venture into more severe conditions single frequency machines lose that depth advantage to multifrequency machines and so you have the option to go back to multifrequency modes. I think Whites has done very well and is still a major player. I also know that they are working on bigger things, but I have a feeling that First Texas may just be on the verge of a game changer themselves. If I had to bet, and you can call me crazy, I think El Paso is where the next big thing will come from.

 

[jjack9977]

I am a long time Whites user, and broke down and bought a Teknetics Eurotek Pro and deeply regret it. It soon became apparent it has several serious firmware issues in pinpoint mode. Looking at forum posts, Teknetics has had complaints on this for three years but continue to sell this defective machine. Whites would NEVER do this.

First Texas owns Teknetics, Fisher, and Bounty Hunter. I will never buy another product from any of these companies. Buyer Beware!

I think First Texas is an amazing company with some great machines. My F75 LTD is still my favorite to use. But I do agree with you that on the Eurotek Pro and Land Ranger Pro among others the pinpoint button failure is an issue they have failed to address properly. If anything it has been met with a smugness whenever it is suggested that it's a major issue. The argument seems to be that relative to the number of units sold the ratio of complaints is small. Still, the vocal users of these machines all seem to have experienced varying degrees of failure, including myself and everyone I know that has had one. The fact is that with less expensive machines people are less likely to make a stink, and most people who metal detect do not use these forums. Most buyers don't actually stick with it long enough to put that kind of wear on a machine. So all companies have their issues, that's for sure.

 

[boogeyman]

​Ive gotta say the best machine out there is the machine that you know how to use.

And have used long enough to understand what it's telling you. A lot of people buy a machine, and use it for a week or two, and are out shopping for a newer more better. A lot of you aren't old enough to have had a machine that the only thing the meter was good for was to tell you how dead your batteries are. Still have a Sov Elite that I never use the meter on, but I can tell you what I'm digging 99% of the time. Learn your machine & you'll prosper!!