✅ SOLVED What did this lock estacion belong too? Civil War battleground

[macrota]

What did this pouch cover post lock belong too? Civil War battleground

Civil War enthusiasts,

I have recovered two of the pouch cover post locks at different locations, same battle (South Mountain, MD) each in the same 5 to 7-inch deep strata as bullets, buttons and buckles. The flip-up twisting ring (it still flips around) was found at the same level, same battle. Notice they have the same color patina.

To what item do the post locks belong?
Could the twisting ring belong to a pocket watch?
Anyone seen these before?

Thanks,
Macrota

 

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[kuger]

the first item went to a womens bustier(SP?)I do vaguely recall something similar being posted by Buckleboy,as something to do with a CW pouch/sack of some sort

Help Breezie!!!Buckleboy!!

OK,here is one discussion....I do not beleive yours is what B.B. has stated...his is...yours is from a Bustier.My good friend's Ironman, and CC Hunter have found the whole frame,of which yours is from

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/325628-found-early-1800-s-homestead-cw-skirmish-site.html

 

[macrota]

kuger, The opening is different than the woman's bustier. Also, the post lock has stiff material that is inconsistent with comfort. I believe the lock went over a post on a box or pouch to keep it closed. Similar to the post lock in this photo:

 

[kuger]

...the pictures I provided were all I have at this time....,it wouldnt be thought to be "comfotable",but when you see one in use.....I dont think they were meant to be

perhaps you didnt see Breezies post in there with this link
http://www.zazzle.com/victorian_corset_or_bustier_great_vintage_image_poster-228096556553454938


The metal strip would be within the cloth....not seen it the picture in that link....note the attachment "buckles"

 

[Breezie]

the first item went to a womens bustier(SP?)I do vaguely recall something similar being posted by Buckleboy,as something to do with a CW pouch/sack of some sort

Help Breezie!!!Buckleboy!!

OK,here is one discussion....I do not beleive yours is what B.B. has stated...his is...yours is from a Bustier.My good friend's Ironman, and CC Hunter have found the whole frame,of which yours is from

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/325628-found-early-1800-s-homestead-cw-skirmish-site.html

Kuger, you rang? I was just headed to bed when my "Kuger Radar" went off; I knew I should have put you on vibrate!

Here ya go:
Busk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I found a pic of one I found several years ago:

 

[macrota]

Kuger, You have uncovered a very good and interesting point. But why would the two "eyelets" I recovered be found at the bloody battle where Union soldiers overcame Confederate defenders to get over South Mountain - and at the same depth as bullets and the like. If one was found, I'd be inclined to believe a woman's busk of the period was in the mix. But two, about a quarter mile apart, makes me think they were off an ammo pouch, pistol pouch, or some other item a soldier was carrying. As with the busk, brass posts and eyelets were a popular means of keeping things closed at the time. Not satisfied that this one has been solved.

 

[DCMatt]

If one was found, I'd be inclined to believe a woman's busk of the period was in the mix. But two, about a quarter mile apart,

Maybe she "got around" at the front line?

They may be from women who camped in the area. Remember these battlefields saw many reunions and gatherings in the years following the war. People were especially nostalgic for the war times in the 1880's with old soldiers getting together and/or bringing families out to see where it all happened. It was an important, life altering event for them.

I'm a Civil War reenactor and I can't think of any equipment I've seen that would have this type of fastner on it. (Not that I've seen it all...)

DCMatt

 

[mical66]

Breezie has a very good picture , looks like matt is dead on..
what i find interesting is this woman lost a clip of her Bustier ..wonder what the story is behind that ?
they say in the early parts of the war just like all wars before , some women would follow troops . so who knows how it happened , but the mind can only wonder ,, or wander which ever you prefer ,,

 

[Breezie]

Kuger, You have uncovered a very good and interesting point. But why would the two "eyelets" I recovered be found at the bloody battle where Union soldiers overcame Confederate defenders to get over South Mountain - and at the same depth as bullets and the like. If one was found, I'd be inclined to believe a woman's busk of the period was in the mix. But two, about a quarter mile apart, makes me think they were off an ammo pouch, pistol pouch, or some other item a soldier was carrying. As with the busk, brass posts and eyelets were a popular means of keeping things closed at the time. Not satisfied that this one has been solved.

Macrota, I realize you directed this to Kuger, but I'd like to answer too. Yes, I agree, it 'could' be a pouch closure, but that would be determined by the thickness and size. The pouch closures were more substantial than those on a corset, and generally made of brass.

As far as 'why' they were in a battlefields . . ..Even though it is not often recognized, women were involved in the Civil War; some were fighting soldiers, spies, cooks, nurses, wash women, some traveled with their husband, and others visited. Let's not forget good ole Fighting Joe Hooker (Major General Joseph Hooker), who entertained prostitutes, gambling, drinking, and partying. Soldiers spent more leisure time than fighting time.

Another reason is there have been other events in the same area after the Civil War. A couple of years ago, I dug a 1940/50s lipstick tube in the same hole (at the same depth) as a 3-Ring Minie bullet. This was in a CW camp in NC.

Also, dirt has been moved from A to B since the CW, which explains how some people have found CW items that were not in a camp or on a battlefield.

The photo below was taken in 1862 near Washington DC. Note the woman/wife, children, baby, and even the dog.




Women were also soldiers in the CW.
http://blogs.loc.gov/teachers/2013/02/women-soldiers-in-the-civil-war/






Breezie

 

[kuger]

Thank you Breezie!
Macrota,I have given my best known info,from what I have personally seen.Perhaps something similar was used for other purposes that I have not witnessed?Good luck

 

[CRUSADER]

These are pretty common find over here, I get one or 5 in every field I try. They are Victorian corset loops, often used with the whale bone type.

 

[macrota]

Kuger, Breezie, mical66, DCMatt, CRUSADER,
Thank you! I now agree, given the information you have provided. It is hard for me to imagine how a bustier eyelet got almost to the top of South Mountain and in the same strata as war items, but my imagination can randomly select scenarios. As DCMatt points out, there might have been reunions soon after the war. Ware and tear from use of a corset or bustier might weaken part of a whalebone or ivory stay and pop the hook. I 'm going to mark this one solved! Thanks again.

Now, what about the winding ring? Pocket watch?

 

[DCMatt]

Now, what about the winding ring? Pocket watch?

In my opinion, it is too big for a pocket watch. It could be from a wind-up alarm clock. If ladies wearing fancy under garments were camped there, they probably brought their alarm clocks. Really... I used to dig at a Methodist Camp Meeting site that was in use from the mid 1800's till about 1930. Clock parts were common and I dug at least one whole brass alarm clock. Promptness was a virtue of the times.

DCMatt

 

[CRUSADER]

In my opinion, it is too big for a pocket watch. It could be from a wind-up alarm clock. If ladies wearing fancy under garments were camped there, they probably brought their alarm clocks. Really... I used to dig at a Methodist Camp Meeting site that was in use from the mid 1800's till about 1930. Clock parts were common and I dug at least one whole brass alarm clock. Promptness was a virtue of the times.

DCMatt

agreed a clock key

 

[Breezie]

Yes, either a clock key or a music box key; both are basically the same creature. Breezie Bustier

 

[macrota]

DCMatt, agreed it is too big. Breezie, thanks!
Another one solved.

Going out for more soon. Keep vigil.

 

[CC Hunter]

Those small triangle shaped brass clips with the keyhole-like slot, are indeed from a part of Victorian era women's corsets, known as the busk.

Busk brass eye clips, along with brass slotted parasol rings, and brass chamberstick finger rings, are likely three of the often encountered mystery items on 19th Century sites, that baffle and confound most everyone at first glance.


http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/214799-carpet-bag-piece.html


http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/277449-more-battlefield-whitizits.html


http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/today-s-finds/275564-trade-button-some-recent-dig-s.html


CC Hunter

 

[CC Hunter]

Kuger, You have uncovered a very good and interesting point. But why would the two "eyelets" I recovered be found at the bloody battle where Union soldiers overcame Confederate defenders to get over South Mountain - and at the same depth as bullets and the like. If one was found, I'd be inclined to believe a woman's busk of the period was in the mix. But two, about a quarter mile apart, makes me think they were off an ammo pouch, pistol pouch, or some other item a soldier was carrying. As with the busk, brass posts and eyelets were a popular means of keeping things closed at the time. Not satisfied that this one has been solved.

Maybe she "got around" at the front line?

They may be from women who camped in the area. Remember these battlefields saw many reunions and gatherings in the years following the war. People were especially nostalgic for the war times in the 1880's with old soldiers getting together and/or bringing families out to see where it all happened. It was an important, life altering event for them.

I'm a Civil War reenactor and I can't think of any equipment I've seen that would have this type of fastner on it. (Not that I've seen it all...)

DCMatt

There is also the overlooked possibility of Civil War period cross-dressing soldiers. I'll not debate which side they were on.

CC Hunter

 

[CC Hunter]

Actually, following a bit of further research; men of royal family, society class, fashionable dandies, and military officers, are noted to have worn corsets in the 18th and 19th Centuries, as well as more recent times.

"Even as women freed themselves for a short time from the confinement of corsets, the Regency dandy, following the Prince Regent’s fashion, began to constrict himself into a wasp-waisted and broad shouldered look. For men of a certain challenged physique, firm waists and tight stomachs were achieved through laced corsets. The sculpting of wide shoulders, bulging thighs, and fine calves was accomplished by well-placed pads, as the satiric image below shows. "

"There can be no doubt, indeed, that just as the large cravat resulted from defects in the royal neck, so the stays in later years became necessary to restrain the unwieldy proportions of the royal waist, and assumed by the dandies as an act of compliment to their patron. The caricatures of the day exhibit an Illustrious Personage lifted up and struggling to insert his legs into a pair of “leather”s of a size he was anxious to appear in – which are securely lashed to the bed posts to give a sort of purchase in furtherance of his efforts – just as in 1784 stories were told of Monseigneur d’Artois, the brother of Louis XVI of France, needing the aid of four tall lacqueys to put on and off, without creasing, his small clothes of a special make and kind."​

"Corsets continued to be relatively popular among the ruling and military classes for the rest of the 19th century, and retained a significant following during the first part of the 20th century."

Prince Regent | Jane Austen's World


CC Hunter

 

[CC Hunter]

Men's Corsets:

Men's Corsets | www.hsl.virginia.edu