What About The Garrett Infinium For gold Prospecting?

[Hard Prospector]

I've been using my Whites TDI for some time now and have been very pleased with its performance but have always wondered about the Garrett PI detector. Any input, opinions and experience with the Infinium would be appreciated. Thanks....Rob

 

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[Steve Herschbach]

You can also buy Carl's new book online at White's Metal Detectors - Treasure Hunting Books

 

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[Oregon Bob]

Terry and Steve, I find your comments very interesting and enjoy reading them however there are some items that I think are important that haven
't been addressed.

First for me is weight. I'm almost 76 years old and have cancer, and I just don't have the strength to swing a heavy Minelab detector for hours at a time. One of the reasons I just ordered a TDI SL is because I can, comfortably, swing this detector. I know this because my goto vlf detector is a Gold Bug 2. I also swing a Lobo Super Traq, both lightweigt detectors.

Second is cost. I looked for older Minelabs and did not find any that were cheaper than a new TDI SL. I also considered potential cost of repair. I was told that many of the older Minelabs are no longer supported by the factory and if they break are very difficult to get repaired and the cost is frequently prohibitive.

I readily acknowledge that the Minelabs are truly great machines but they are not for everybody, myself included.

I thank you both for the great information that you guys dispense.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

"I readily acknowledge that the Minelabs are truly great machines but they are not for everybody, myself included."

I agree 100%. Thankfully there are choices!

 

[dbsmokey]

No Steve, I really don't like either one of the machines. I have used them both and compared them side-by-side with the Whites Dual Field and Tesoro Sand Shark. At $1,500.00 the TDI is overpriced by about $700.00 - in my never humble opinion. It is a "Gimmick" machine, that is marketed as, "The poor man's Minelab GPX." The often heard argument of, "Well not everyone can afford a GPX," is a redirect, and should be countered with, "Well, they shouldn't pay twice what a machine is worth either." You will find everything that you would find with a TDI, using the Dual Field or Tesoro Sand Shark - at HALF the price. None of these machines are as good as a used Minelab SD2200 or GP3000, which you can pick up for less than a new TDI.

You know, I found a 2.7 gram nugget on the east side of Rich Hill, Arizona with a Garrett Ace 250, in 2007. I guess any machine can be a gold nugget machine in the right circumstances. I found several three and four- gram nuggets in the Bradshaws with my Tesoro Sand Shark. If the gold is big and shallow enough, like the "Boot of Cortez," a $99.00 Radio Shack machine will find it.

For gold nugget shooting (anywhere but maybe the Sudan or the Klondike), low powered PI units like the TDI, Infinium, Dual Field and Sand Shark, are all in the same class - second.

I will ask this question again of you Terry. Have you ever used a TDI, TDI Pro or TDI SL? Thanks.

 

[Terry Soloman]

I will ask this question again of you Terry. Have you ever used a TDI, TDI Pro or TDI SL? Thanks.

Yes I have. I have over 200-hours on the TDI Pro in Arizona. Save your money and get a good VLF, or save up for a Minelab GPX.

 

[dbsmokey]

Yes I have. I have over 200-hours on the TDI Pro in Arizona. Save your money and get a good VLF, or save up for a Minelab GPX.

Where in Arizona? What did you find in 200 hours? Just curious....

 

[Treasure finder]

Terry,
Just as you can buy a used Minelab, I bought a pre-owned Infinium for $800. That isn't overpriced at all and you can use it on the
beach and underwater for small gold jewelry, places where the Minelabs won't go. I am happy.
Rich

 

[Hard Prospector]

I too have hundreds of hours on my TDI SL and the ability of this machine to find all sizes of gold in the harshest mineral rich iron soil has been impressive to say the least. No it does not have the depth of the GPX but its still very good. At 1/5 the price , 1/2 the weight , user friendly, and the ability to run on disposable batteries make this a fine machine indeed. When you prospect for days at a time like I do swinging in the harshest of conditions and living out of a backpack , the TDI SL has been the right tool for the job. After much research and comment, it sounds like the Infinium needs to evolve some more.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Where in Arizona? What did you find in 200 hours? Just curious....

Bradshaw and Weaver Mountains, and at Gold Basin. A couple of meteorites and two shallow nuggets (4.8-grams and 6.3-grams). If the TDI was priced at $800.00 it would be a good buy, but it isn't. IN MY OPINION it just can't match the GMT, Goldbug, or Lobo Super Traq for 95% of the prospecting we do in Arizona.

 

[Reg]

Bradshaw and Weaver Mountains, and at Gold Basin. A couple of meteorites and two shallow nuggets (4.8-grams and 6.3-grams). If the TDI was priced at $800.00 it would be a good buy, but it isn't. IN MY OPINION it just can't match the GMT, Goldbug, or Lobo Super Traq for 95% of the prospecting we do in Arizona.

Terry,

I own at least one of the following detectors; a GMT, a GB2, a GBSE, A Lob ST, a TDI and a TDI SL and have used them all. With that said I have used all of them in AZ but the TDI SL and I have used all, including the SL all in various types of ground here in CO, matching the ground found in AZ. So, with that said I know you are simply wrong with your statement about the TDI. In fact, I field tested the GB 2 and the LST and several other gold machines for Lost Treasure with most hunting done across AZ. So, yes for those wondering, I have hunted from Gold Basin to Tucson, from the Bradshaws through the Weaver mountains to other areas not known by many. I hunted the La Paz area before it was closed off and of course around Rich Hill, Wickenburg, Salome, East and north of of Phoenix, LSD, Model Creek, Quartzite, and a whole lot of other locations across AZ.

Now, people are certainly welcome to follow you and our advice and I hope they do such as trying the Tesoro's PI's for gold hunting. If they do, I really hope they are willing to come forward with what they found, especially if they can compare Tesoro's PI to the TDI.

BTW, I tried one of Tesoro's PI's years ago and found it didn't work well in bad ground.

None of the VLF's mentioned nor can a non ground balancing PI match the TDI in bad ground for depth or ease of use. So, either you didn't use the TDI as much as you said, or you simply don't know how to use it. I am not sure just which one is correct.

Reg

 

[Terry Soloman]

Terry,

I own at least one of the following detectors; a GMT, a GB2, a GBSE, A Lob ST, a TDI and a TDI SL and have used them all. With that said I have used all of them in AZ but the TDI SL and I have used all, including the SL all in various types of ground here in CO, matching the ground found in AZ. So, with that said I know you are simply wrong with your statement about the TDI. In fact, I field tested the GB 2 and the LST and several other gold machines for Lost Treasure with most hunting done across AZ. So, yes for those wondering, I have hunted from Gold Basin to Tucson, from the Bradshaws through the Weaver mountains to other areas not known by many. I hunted the La Paz area before it was closed off and of course around Rich Hill, Wickenburg, Salome, East and north of of Phoenix, LSD, Model Creek, Quartzite, and a whole lot of other locations across AZ.

Now, people are certainly welcome to follow you and our advice and I hope they do such as trying the Tesoro's PI's for gold hunting. If they do, I really hope they are willing to come forward with what they found, especially if they can compare Tesoro's PI to the TDI.

BTW, I tried one of Tesoro's PI's years ago and found it didn't work well in bad ground.

None of the VLF's mentioned nor can a non ground balancing PI match the TDI in bad ground for depth or ease of use. So, either you didn't use the TDI as much as you said, or you simply don't know how to use it. I am not sure just which one is correct.

Reg

Our opinions differ Reg - as always.

Again, the TDI - In My Opinion, is way overpriced and overhyped. It would be a great machine at the $800.00 price point, but it is not worth the asking price when compared to the GMT, Goldbug, or Lobo Super Traq for 95% of the prospecting we do in Arizona. You continue to make a lot of assumptions about me Reg, and you also don't mind calling me a liar - even though you have never met me and know absolutely nothing about me. I feel sorry for you and think you are wrong, but I won't call you a liar or try and put you down just because I disagree with you. Big gold to you.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

It rises from the dead - the thread that would not die, the debate that never ended!

 

[glabelle]

Our opinions differ Reg - as always.

Again, the TDI - In My Opinion, is way overpriced and overhyped. It would be a great machine at the $800.00 price point, but it is not worth the asking price when compared to the GMT, Goldbug, or Lobo Super Traq for 95% of the prospecting we do in Arizona. You continue to make a lot of assumptions about me Reg, and you also don't mind calling me a liar - even though you have never met me and know absolutely nothing about me. I feel sorry for you and think you are wrong, but I won't call you a liar or try and put you down just because I disagree with you. Big gold to you.

I have not done any prospecting (yet). But I am familiar with these machines (am a retired engineer, and C&J hunted for 50+ years), and have made test beds with "bad" ground to compare machines and coils. One thing is for certain. There is some mineralized soil that is strong enough to render a VLF machine (GMT/GB2) basically useless. They will nearly overload when placed near the ground - the ground in this case represents a very strong signal, albeit "rejected". This signal takes up all the dynamic range the machine has to offer, rendering it insensitive and greatly reducing its normal depth capability. A PI machine (TDI) has no trouble with this ground and can readily see a target at full depth. Therefore a TDI would be worth more than a GMT in this situation. $1200 vs. $800.

Terry, are you saying that 95% of the ground in Arizona is not highly mineralized? Ground that can reduce the sensitivity of a VLF (GMT)? If so, then you are right, a TDI is not worth more than a GMT (in Arizona). If not, then the extra cost of a ground balancing PI is warranted in this case.

George

 

[Terry Soloman]

I have not done any prospecting (yet). But I am familiar with these machines (am a retired engineer, and C&J hunted for 50+ years), and have made test beds with "bad" ground to compare machines and coils. One thing is for certain. There is some mineralized soil that is strong enough to render a VLF machine (GMT/GB2) basically useless. They will nearly overload when placed near the ground - the ground in this case represents a very strong signal, albeit "rejected". This signal takes up all the dynamic range the machine has to offer, rendering it insensitive and greatly reducing its normal depth capability. A PI machine (TDI) has no trouble with this ground and can readily see a target at full depth. Therefore a TDI would be worth more than a GMT in this situation. $1200 vs. $800.

Terry, are you saying that 95% of the ground in Arizona is not highly mineralized? Ground that can reduce the sensitivity of a VLF (GMT)? If so, then you are right, a TDI is not worth more than a GMT (in Arizona). If not, then the extra cost of a ground balancing PI is warranted in this case.

George

Hello George! Nobody is arguing that a PI can handle hot ground better than many single-frequency VLF detectors, but in 35+ years of detecting in Arizona, there has only been three times that a GMT, LST, or Goldbug would not get the job done for me. Further, the TDI is no better at finding gold nuggets than an Infinium, and certainly cannot find the small gold that a GMT can. If you could only get one machine for gold prospecting would you buy the TDI, or the GMT? My choice would be the GMT EVERY time.

Again George, I think the TDI is too expensive, and not sensitive enough to the small gold that buys the beans and biscuts for everyday gold prospectors.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

Good post Terry.

 

[Reg]

Hi George,

The mineralized ground is only part of the problem. The other is so many of the rocks contain magnetite sufficient to easily mask any gold around or under them. Rich Hill is a perfect example of where such rocks occur.

Take a granite rock with sufficient magnetite in it and place a small gold nugget under or near it and if the ground balance isn't set just right, that nugget simply disappears. Try it and see what I mean.

Years ago I talked before a club and displayed how easy this condition can happen. In fact, I used several different popular VLF gold detectors and different rocks to show how easily a nugget up to a half ounce could be ignored.

Simply stated, if the detector is set to normal ground balance and a rock containing sufficient magnetite is present, it will drive the threshold into the silent zone. If that happens, the gold will not be detected. The reason is simple, magnetite signals are dramatically stronger than gold signals even though they may not appear to be by listening to the audio change.

Now, observe the rock and gold signals with a scope and the signal difference is obvious. One patent refers to this difference in signal strength and states something like the signal from such mineralization is over 40 times stronger than that of a similar size piece of gold.

A PI, on the other hand ignores the mineralized rock (or black sand) and will detect the gold beneath it. So, the PI, in many cases doesn't have to go deeper to be more effective.

Now, an experienced VLF owner that knows how to set the ground balance such that the mineralization found in those rocks is balanced out or the GB is set just a tiny bit positive on those rocks can and will detect the gold.

Unfortunately, the discrimination mode is far more susceptible to this mineralization problem, so the use of the discrimination mode can fail even with the right ground balance setting.

All of this can be tested and verified quiet easily. Ideally, one should use a piece of magnetite as the ideal test piece, but if that isn't available, then one can use a piece of ferrite such as that found in an old radio antenna. If ferrite isn't available, a simple ceramic magnet or even one of the rubber refrigerator magnetics that generates a negative response on a VLF in the all metal mode will work fine. Don't have gold? Well, you can use a small brass nut or other piece of brass or even a small piece of lead as a test gold target simulator.

Back in the days when the VLF was king and basically no one used a PI, I tested a lot of different detectors to see which were better. At that time, the GB 2 did a little better than most. The Minelab VLF's such as the XT 18000 and similar models would balance out the rock if passed over it enough.

None of the auto ground balance detectors worked that well if left in the auto GB mode. Now, if a person were to GB to the magnetite rock and then tweak the GB (ground balance) slightly more positive a click or two, then one could detect the gold.

Changing the subject, finally, I agree with Terry, a PI doesn't do as well as the VLF on the real small stuff. In fact, I used to carry a couple of what John Blennert called his "invisible nuggets" with me and have fun watching ML owners try to detect them. Back in the days of the 24K club at Rich Hill, we would run tests with these two nuggets that weighed in at about 12 grains. Many of the well known AZ nugget hunters were there on a few of the tests.

BTW, John gave me a couple of those "invisible" nuggets so I could see if I could modify a PI that would detect them. Yes, I did accomplished that feat and used that detector to show how it could compete with a VLF. I used to display how my modified PI, which by the way was a low powered PI that I added ground balance, would detect the "invisible" nuggets and then challenge ML owners to do the same. These tests took place before the days of the TDI. Later I tested the TDI and it failed also. The discussions of those tests can be found on some of the better known prospecting forums if you search their history back before 2008.

Now, John Blennert, who lives in Tucson, is well known for his work on finding meteorites at Gold Basin, found a lot of these "invisible" nuggets near Greaterville. In fact he had several approaching an ounce and many of them would be ignored by a PI.

Reg

 

[Treasure finder]

Good post Reg, thanks.
So on the Infinium (subject of his thread), we should ground balance over magnetite or a refrigerator magnet, lock the ground
balance and we would be good to go?
Rich

 

[Reg]

hi Rich,

The recommendations in my previous post were for VLF's and not for the Infinium. Since the typical delay for black sand or magnetite is about 5 usec, the Infinium should ignore this type of rock already.

Now, I have never used an Infinium so I don't know what type of signal you get from Black sand.

On a PI, most have a minimal delay of well past the 5 usec. However, two other conditions can exist and they are; there are other minerals in the black sand that have a longer delay, so some response is possible, and the second is, if there isn't a proper elimination of the earth field effect, a magnetic type response can occur. In simple terms this means black sand can respond even on a PI.

ML's suffer more from this but other PI's including the TDI can experience this also. If a home made coil or a coil is too large for the minimal delay setting and the PI is set at minimal delay, a person may experience odd signals that don't make much sense. Tweaking the delay to a later setting can eliminate this odd signal.

This odd condition where the delay is too short causes a main sample taken too soon so there is a distortion in its amplification. Any distortion will cause an unbalance in the earth field effect elimination which will or can cause an unwanted response.

Getting back to your Infinium, I just simply do not know how it works so I can't say what will happen but I would think you shouldn't be able to set the ground balance to eliminate black sand as far as I know.

Reg

 

[Treasure finder]

Reg,
Thanks for the update.
Rich

 

[Treasure finder]

Here is how my Infinium handles tough mineralized ground. These beach finds were all made today in black beach sand
with salt water lapping over them. It hasn't given me any trouble in the nugget fields.
Rich