We are returning to our claim.

Mad Machinist

Mad Machinist

Silver Member
Aug 18, 2010
3,147
4,686
Southeast Arizona
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
This post isn't so much for the forum but for those that lurk here gleaning info.

We are returning to our claim. We know where the mine is. If you choose to start flinging lead at us again, THIS IS YOUR WARNING.

I will be on over watch with a M82A1 Barret and I am well versed in it's use. If you are close enough to start flinging lead, your well within range and I DON'T miss.

We checked and we are well within our rights to return fire.

Enough is enough.

I do apologize to the forum members here for this post but after talking to numerous people in the area we are in, we are not the only ones who have experienced this and this crap is going to stop one way or the other. What we do is dangerous enough without having to dodge lead like the 1850's.
 

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Casca said:
2 Miles huh, that is one heck of a claim. How does one work a 2 mile gold claim effectively?

See guns were made for one thing, shooting people. If you own one, you are a nut waiting to shoot your fellow man. Your really dont need a excuse, Im sure your claim is as good a reason as any.

Now having been there, I can tell you those who bragg most likely werent there at all. Its a ugly buisness not anything one should be proud of. I am proud I served, but take no enjoyment in the death of others.

I have friends who protect their claims without gun fire. If you have it in your head to shoot someone your gonna do it. Get out of the mine you have been breathing bad air for too long. There is always going to be a bad egg out there. Just because your smart enough to squeeze the trigger does not make you smart enough to own a gun.

If you really need a gun to go dig dirt I would find another hobby. I dont carry, would rather not have to babysit the thing. Just added weight. Seriously, how many times did you really shoot someone out on your claim?????
Click to expand...

First off, this is NOT a hobby for me. Mining puts food on my table and keeps a roof over my family's head.

Second off, I DO NOT need your approval nor anyone's elses to do what I am doing. The fact that I have over seven years of my life and several million dollars wrapped up in this claim is more than enough reason to fight for it. My family and I have lived like paupers over the last seven years despite the fact that I have a 6 figure a year salary in order to make this happen. And after spending most of the day with my attorney today making sure all my crap is in order, I now own my own mining company.

Third, you have absolutely no idea what is going on here. This has been a problem not only for us, but for many others here. I know many of the neighboring claim owners. And they have the same problem we have had. Seems kinda funny, none of this started until a certain foreign owned company moved into the area.

Fourth, if you want to threaten my livelihood, and thus my families well being, ALL the rules go out the window.
 

calisdad said:
Casca I'm surprised that those who brag don't realize this.

Just out of curiosity Mad Machinist, what 'type' of person started this? Did they fit the profile of what you expected?
Glad you are well.
C-dad
Click to expand...

We first thought it was a bunch of tweekers, but after talking about it, we decided that they would just pawn the gun for money. After talking to the others around us we figured it was someone trying to drive us out in order to take over the claims for a pittance when we left it go. Considering the amount of claims in the area, this pointed to someone with a lot of money especially with the changes in the BLM claims process. Now you pay by the 20 acre claim instead of wrapping a bunch of connecting claims up into one.

We had a description of a vehicle commonly seen in the area when all of the problems started. And we knew about the connection because the same vehicle was seen in the area trying to buy people out. So yea, the profile we built fit the people we caught. They now know that WILL NOT come into this area and ride roughshod over people to get what they want because they are a foreign owned company with some money.
 

Sorry to hear You are under assault on Your Claim in Arizona. A couple months ago I talked to the owner of a car restoration shop in Morristown, He told me how violent some old miners were up in the bradshaw's and rich hill area back in the 60's to 80's. A few guys had dynamite tossed into their trucks while they were working claims, He said there were some murders and some guys simply vanished. The main issue I have about guns on a claim is that it is "Federal" Property" owned by the U.S. Govt. As I understand it You are required to report confrontations on Govt. land to the Forest Service, BLM, Or FBI. If You had a violent confrontation on Govt. land and did not report it, then You could have a serious problem if You shoot somebody, and planned in advance to shoot if confronted without contacting the proper Authorities and informing them of the threat in advance. It's really a crap shoot in Federal Court today if You are charged with a crime on Govt. Land. I know in Montana a couple years ago, two guys were found guilty in Billings Federal Court of killing a rattlesnake that was crossing a stream minding it's own business. I would consider contacting the BLM or Forest Service Law Enforcement Ranger of the problem. I'm sure You are protecting Yourself and I commend You for sticking up for Your rights.
 

jbarker52 said:
Sorry to hear You are under assault on Your Claim in Arizona. A couple months ago I talked to the owner of a car restoration shop in Morristown, He told me how violent some old miners were up in the bradshaw's and rich hill area back in the 60's to 80's. A few guys had dynamite tossed into their trucks while they were working claims, He said there were some murders and some guys simply vanished. The main issue I have about guns on a claim is that it is "Federal" Property" owned by the U.S. Govt. As I understand it You are required to report confrontations on Govt. land to the Forest Service, BLM, Or FBI. If You had a violent confrontation on Govt. land and did not report it, then You could have a serious problem if You shoot somebody, and planned in advance to shoot if confronted without contacting the proper Authorities and informing them of the threat in advance. It's really a crap shoot in Federal Court today if You are charged with a crime on Govt. Land. I know in Montana a couple years ago, two guys were found guilty in Billings Federal Court of killing a rattlesnake that was crossing a stream minding it's own business. I would consider contacting the BLM or Forest Service Law Enforcement Ranger of the problem. I'm sure You are protecting Yourself and I commend You for sticking up for Your rights.
Click to expand...

The "authorities" here are well aware of what was going on well before we hit this point. It was they who reminded us of the fact that Arizona has a "Castle Doctrine".

Here's what is going on here: Arizona is new frontier in search for vital 'rare earth' elements
 

You are in the same boat that many of us have faced...The law is not interested in our problems...It is your claim and who ever tries to take it away is a claim jumper....Art
 

I can understand your frustration and your train of thought but don't post it in a public forum where it can and would be used against you.
 

Everyone is all talking about claims this and claims that, and I'm over here in Georgia like "what's a claim?" LOL
 

As I said in my reply, I commend You for sticking up for Your rights and it seems You have done Your homework. I would however question the Castle Doctrine
if a confrontation happened on Federal Lands. I simply would not trust common sense of Govt. in a Federal Court. The rights of victims mean more than an honest citizen defending His rights in proceedings before Federal Magistrates. I wish You well and I hope and pray that if there is serious trouble that You come out on top.
 

huntsman53 said:
I am not sure that the "Castle Doctrine" applies to your predicament. I believe your situation falls under the Arizona State Statutes ARS Titles 13-404 and 13-405. See the links below

Format Document

13-405 - Justification; use of deadly physical force


Frank
Click to expand...

This is part of what I talked to my attorney about and the "authorities" are well aware of. Even after CLEARLY identifying our location on several occasions, they kept walking fire in. On several occasions the fire shifted towards us after we identified we were there.

Like I said, no more games. We are well within our rights to do what we are doing. And if you read the 1872 Mining Law, we have a duty to defend our claim, if we want to keep it. Like I said before, this was a VERY hard decision for me that I weighed for a long time before I chose what to do. Given my choice, I would prefer to save life as it is far easier to take life. Look at my avatar and that should be all you need to know.

On a side note, the Devil knows when I finally reach Hell, I'll be reclaiming my throne.:laughing7::laughing7::laughing7:

The thing of it is, if it was just us having the problem, I would lay and wait for those responsible and have a nice "chat" with them. But like I said, I know most of the claim owners around me and more than a few of them are using what they find to supplement their incomes. Their not getting rich, they are simply surviving. Several of them have some of our equipment on "permanent loan" as they can't afford to buy better stuff.

I love what I am doing. I love finding this stuff and love making money at it. But my greatest joys and memories are watching some of the "older" guys around me finding more than they ever found before. The looks are their faces are priceless and hearing a few of them talk about being able to actually buy their grandkids something other than dollar store presents makes all of this worthwhile.

I'm not looking to be a hero. I already am one. I have a chest full of medals and the scars to prove it from my days in the military and as a volunteer firefighter. I do this simply because it is the right thing to do. Everybody deserves the same chance. And I'll be damned to Hell before I give up to some moron that has money and thinks they can ride roughshod over the little guy. Some of us "little guys" have razor sharp teeth.
 

Last edited:
They are in the wrong, not you.
They are the aggressors not you. you are defending your claim.
Light 'em up!!
These kinda' people are the scum of the earth. Who knows what they will do in other situations.
I....would hunt them down,and unleash hell!.
You..have a claim to work, if you can....
Stay safe, find lotsa gold, and keep your powder dry!
 

Hopefully you can find another way to solve the situation.

There are all kinds of nasty memories one can live with,
but, living with the memory of taking another life is not
one of them. You take another life, and you've taken away
a son of a mom and dad, and perhaps a husband and father
of their own children. All the testosterone aside, looking
through those crosshairs and seeing a human you plan to
kill is a world apart from shooting paper. If you squeeze that
trigger, it'll be a "mental snapshot" your mind will never forget.

I've read the thread and understand you've got some idiots
that shoot in your direction from a location within a mile of
your claim. If you can afford that sniper rifle, you can also
afford a few trail cams to set up in the areas the idiots frequent.
From there, hopefully you can get some license plates, and then
file a formal complaint against them with the Sheriff's office.

I absolutely respect your right to own firearms and to protect
your family and property, but please, before you go tossing lead
and intentionally taking a life, search out every possible solution
that doesn't involve people dying.

twocents-1.gif~original
 

Oregon Viking said:
They are in the wrong, not you.
They are the aggressors not you. you are defending your claim.
Light 'em up!!
These kinda' people are the scum of the earth. Who knows what they will do in other situations.
I....would hunt them down,and unleash hell!.
You..have a claim to work, if you can....
Stay safe, find lotsa gold, and keep your powder dry!
Click to expand...

I agree with you up to and after the sentence in Bold! Mad Machinist has the Laws on his side, both Arizona Law giving him the right to defend his' and other's life/lives and the 1872 Mining Law giving him the right to defend his' Claim. Once you leave your' Claim, hunt them down and kill or seriously injure someone, you open up all kinds of Legal nightmares. Now, if they come on his' Claim and are advancing upon his or others positions or the Mine itself, they are the aggressors, then Mad Machinist has every right to turn the situation around and go on the offensive instead of defensive (move in on them if the situation warrants and is totally feasible as in being able to do so without further risk to his' own life) and capture, disable and/or kill the aggressors if the need arises. One must weigh each and every situation but if the aggressors/trespassers are advancing on his' position and mine and walking rounds in to do harm, then he has every right to do what is needed to dispose of the threat!


Frank
 

A mans gotta do what a mans gotta do to protect you and yourn. Hesitation is not the way,assertion of your rights will set ya free ,so wish ya all the luck in the world and peace to be had to ya-John
 

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