WARNING FRAUDS AT WORK

[Monty]

I dropped in on a Minelab site that I visit occasionally and they were having problems with new members ripping off people in the items for sale section. Someone or maybe more than one person had joined the site and advertised a high dollar detector for sale with pictures and everything. The money was sent but no detector was ever delivered and the selling party conveniently disappeared. Also, apparently this same person conned the advertisers into shipping a few detectors to them and didn't pay. Might be the same person(s)? So, be cautious about buying or selling from someone that perhaps only has one or two posts in the for sale section. I'm told there is a federal investigation going on now of this same person or perhaps a group of persons pulling this on other sites besides treasure hunting. Sorry I don't have more information, but be careful guys and gals. Monty

 

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[CRAZY-TEXICAN]

There is a scam for just about anything these days..

 

[BareBones]

Also, apparently this same person conned the advertisers into shipping a few detectors to them and didn't pay. Might be the same person(s)? So, be cautious about buying or selling from someone that perhaps only has one or two posts in the for sale section.

Who in their right mind would sell and ship something without first receiving payment? That sounds fishy to me.

But being in the market for a used detector I have been really concerned about this even before reading this post. Add to my paranoia why don't you!

I have seen several people request MO for payment and missed a couple deals because of it. While I understand that most people want to avoid paypal fees or perhaps don't have a paypal account, if you send a MO you have little recourse to recoup your funds if they don't send the goods. I hate paypal but it's currently the safest way to purchase something on the internet and best of all the payment is sent immediately in most cases.

 

[Chaz]

Even pay-pal isn't perfect. The seller can pay, and pay-pal says it is in your account, but then if the transaction bounces from the buyers bank, Pay-Pal debits your account, so you're out the item, and the payment. They have seller protection, but that doesn't always seem to apply. I sold something to a guy (not on this or other detecting forum) who paid with pay-pal, then closed his bank account. A couple days later, I get the payment debited from my account. Just hope to deal with honest people

 

[fieldboy se va]

I have bought and sold on 2 other forums with no problems ..:rule 1 get a home phone # 2 a good home address look up name on puter match address ... 3 look up phone# match to address in my case I know a Va state trooper who ck information for me
Fieldboy se va

 

[jeff of pa]

Also, apparently this same person conned the advertisers into shipping a few detectors to them and didn't pay. Might be the same person(s)? So, be cautious about buying or selling from someone that perhaps only has one or two posts in the for sale section.

Who in their right mind would sell and ship something without first receiving payment?

This works Both ways.

Who would Pay without knowing
the Item Is real ?

Best thing to do Get a Phone Number & call it.

Get to know the Person.

 

[sassyswingah]

I'm fairly new to this forum and have made 2 purchases since joining. One through paypal, which I prefer, the other requested a US Postal money order. No matter what way you pay you still take a chance until the postman or UPS man shows up at the door with your item. It is harder to trust new folks on the forum but I am sure glad that it wasn't held against me. I do have an ebay account and great feedback there but haven't bought anything there in a year!

Someone needs to come up with a new business that both parties send the $ and item to...and then they are sent out at the same time!

 

[savant365]

Good idea Sassy but then you are just adding more fee's to the purchase for both parties. If you are careful and get good contact info and verify it before you send $$$ or product you should be fine. However there are always going to be dishonest people out there that will scam you no matter how careful you are.

Charlie

I have never heard of it but does UPS or USPS, FEDEX, etc...offer any type of fraud insurance?

 

[FredCobol]

You cannot even trust MOs and Cashier's Checks anymore. This is a HUGE problem now.

People are sending fake MOs and Cashier's Checks that will clear when you take them to your bank. A couple months later they are discovered as counterfeits and your bank will come after you for the money and the person you sent your merchandise to is long gone. Sometimes someone will even offer you more than you are asking just to get you to take the bait.

See this link for craig's list that tells you how to avoid scams. http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams

 

[BareBones]

Yes I've heard about the MO scams for some time now which is why I personally only deal with USPS MO's. I suppose those too are not safe these days either unless you take them to the PO.

I've been on both sides of the fence as a buyer and a seller and it's scary as hell no matter what you are doing. Heck even a face to face transaction runs risks right down to getting counterfeit cash.

I've had some bumps and bruises with paypal as a buyer, worst of which cost me $75 shipping out of my pocket to send an item back I bought on eBay that was not anywhere close to being as described, and I'm not talking condition either. The seller was a real scam artist and eventually lost his account, but ebay nor paypal were able or willing to recover my funds, but my credit card did.

I have a credit card that pays the funds via my paypal account so the funds are always there no matter what and anything I have ever sold via paypal, I wait for the funds to clear if the transaction is listed as pending. Once they clear the money is yours unless a claim is filed against the transaction by the buyer. eBay just recently changed their user agreement to better protect the buyer if funds were not available in the paypal account in the event of a dispute.

Anyone who gives paypal or anyone other then your employer, or a government institution your bank account number for ANYTHING other then the purpose of direct deposit, should have their head examined. Your just asking for trouble.

Using paypal with a credit card it is like a second line of defense that if you can't resolve an issue through paypal, usually your credit card will back you up. I've only ever had to do that once and that was with the transaction I mentioned above.

And you should guard your social security number like your bank account number and credit card numbers.

Phone verification is certainly a good idea as is dealing with people who have a solid reputation, but just remember that everyone had to start out some time even on flebay. I've personally got (130) 100% positive feedback on ebay and that is not even a tenth of the transactions I've done on that site. People really don't use the feedback system properly.

Is eBay feedback a reliable barometer for an individuals character or reputation? I don't know, but I guess it's better then nothing.

Like I said before, paypal as much as I dislike them, they are the best form of payment over distance. Even MO's are not safe these days because of they are counterfeited so much now. Don't even consider Western Union.

Take this for what it's worth, as a seller if I were to get a USPS MO in the mail I would take it to the PO with me when I was shipping the item. I use the USPS MO to pay for the shipping and get the cash right there so I know there are no problems with the MO. That is why I only accept USPS MO and probably the same reason a lot of other people do the same thing. If there are any irregularities it will be caught right then and there before you pay for the shipping or ship the item out. But this does nothing to safeguard the buyer.

I do like to use the internet to print and pay for my postage if I use paypal, it usually saves a few cents on shipping, you are sure to have the buyers address correct and not having to wait in line to drop the item off at the post office is a plus, but you are going to have to eat the paypal fees. This really is the safest method of payment for both parties.

As a buyer I still prefer paypal as it is a means of recourse to get your money back if nothing shows up in the mail or there is a significant problem with the item that the seller is not willing to negotiate with you on.

I did have a $1200 transfer switch miss delivered by UPS to the wrong address once. Let me tell you my heart skipped a beat when the tracking number said the item had been delivered and I had nothing to show for it. The driver delivered it to a Street instead of Avenue and I had a UPS manager hand deliver it to me with many apologies after some frantic phone calls on my part.

Word about insurance. I've only had one claim with the USPS for damaged goods and it was initially denied. Not until I wrote a letter to the inspector general about it was my claim honored. I have no idea how they would treat a claim that was miss delivered. I notice now that if you send an item USPS insured you have to sign for the item to receive it. So if you are not home expect a trip to the post office or sign the form for them to deliver it again. It's kind of a pain, but they don't seem to hire the sharpest pencils in the box at the PO and I guess this keeps the claims down on miss delivered items.

Bottom line there is no perfect safeguard out there at the present time, but if someone hears of something I'm the first guy who want's to know.

 

[Willee]

Who in their right mind would sell and ship something without first receiving payment? That sounds fishy to me.

Well I do ... if I know the fella or have seen him posting on the forum for a while and others vouch for him.
I just sent out a coil yesterday to a fella in Alabama with nothing more than his word he would send the money order.

If that was someone posting with a new screen name and no history ... then no I would not.

And yes Paypay is very safe IF you read and follow their rules BEFORE you ship something payed for with Paypal.

Always get a delivery signature if you want Paypal to insure your payment.
They want proof you sent the item before they will reimburse you for it ... and they don't move at the speed of light.
A claim will take a while ... but it is better than getting burned by a scammer.

Willee

 

[dfg4240]

Thanks for the warning Monte.
I heard about this guy (buick).He had a couple other aliases.
He sent me and email about a minelab he was selling.
I had him email me direct and I traced his email to southern california.
in the last two months I have bought five detectors from forum members and sold all except one,the fisher F5.
I also bought a VibraProbe 570.
everything went through PayPal.
I did have a problem on ebay.
I bought a new in the box Cibola for $250.
Paid through PayPal. the guy didn't sent it.
He claimed he never got the money.Paypal said they paid him
after three days of emails we found out Bank of america took over his bank and changed everything.
he had the wrong email with PayPal.
PayPal pulled the money back and held it and wanted him to send the detector to me and If I wanted it and left positive feedback they would release the money to him.
He wouldn't do it so Paypal sent me the money back to me. This just happened a couple of weeks ago.
David
I think maybe if we buy from the forum we better check to see if anybody did business with him.

 

[BareBones]

I think maybe if we buy from the forum we better check to see if anybody did business with him.

That was my first thought, but being the new kid on the block I have no idea who to ask or who to trust for that matter.

Also I've missed out on several deals because the early bird catches the worm.

 

[jeff of pa]

I only deal with Money Orders & Personal Checks.

But then being a Moderator here
probably lends me a bit of extra leeway
when buying. which I also
extend when selling.

I'v stopped doing deals on Ebay since they
changed things, I still absolutely refuse
to get involved with Paypal.

 

[JonPa]

newest scam involving Pay pal

Here is how the newest scam involving pay pal works. A person over seas buys a item then he wants it shipped a slow way. a lot of the times slow{cheap } shipping takes a month or so to get over there and you cant get a tracking number on it. The guy waits two weeks then makes a claim to pay pal they refund the money and you are out a item so, be carefull of pay pal also. I have sold about 1000 items on ebay and Pay pal is nothing but a pain . jon_pa

 

[dfg4240]

There are a lot of old pros here.
I think this is like a big family and we should come up with some way to verify who we are.
There is so much buying and selling in the forums you can't keep track of what's going.
Maybe we should have an "ABOUT TO BUY FORUM" where if a buyer wants to he can post what he is buying and from who, just to see if anybody dealt with this person.
He can go ahead with the deal anytime he wants but maybe post it for an hour or 8 hrs or he does not have to post at all.
Just a thought!.
A lot of deals we make here are not that much but some are big dollars- I would hate to lose even Three hundred or more.
Seems like you never get away from these scammers, they always show up.
David

 

[CRAZY-TEXICAN]

I have been scammed quite a few times over the years and i only accept paypal as payment, i stopped buying and selling on the bay a couple of times because of this and paypal does absolutely nothing , they hold your money for a month or so and if buyer paid with a credit card i guarantee you that paypal will refund his money regardless of weather the item got to him or not ... Another issue with paypal is that if you file a claim and the other person used the funds in his account or transferred it over to his bank before you file a claim , you will only get what was left in his paypal account , so if that person only has $0.10 left, that is exactly what you get.. Paypal is not going to take a loss and would rather loose a good customer than to loose any money .

 

[Monty]

Over time I have been aware of many schemes and this was just the last one I heard about. And I do think the "Buick" guy is probably the one who was doing it come to think of it. But of course he only has to change his name and it's off to the races. I had an ad to sell a detector and got a buyer first thing. But he wanted me to cash a money order in excess of the amount of the selling price and send him the change along with the detector. I figured that one out right fast and replied that the next knock on his door was probably the FBI. Never heard form him again. Montyl

 

[erjtej]

Hi all! Just my two cents worth. Seems if a person is gonna be low enough to rip you off, he'll get it done. For the most part I've met great people, formed lasting relationships and treasured friends through the bay and the forums. I've sold thousands of dollars and hundreds of items on both and can count on one hand bad dealings. Yes, they are out there, but a thief is just that, and he'll manage a way to get to you no matter what. As for pay pal, I have used it for years, hate the fees but on the other hand I don't expect them to work for nothing. Payment is instant and in my experiences they have come through for me in mediation and refunds when a transaction through them goes south. I had a person sell me an item on the bay, paid through pay pal and then the person would not answer any e-mails, phone calls or anything. Total silence. Reported it to paypal, they did their thing, money was returned. I even had my paypal debit card stolen, the thieves used it for several purchases before I could contact paypal. they froze my account for a period which was unpleasant but necessary, refunded the entire amount that had been taken from my account and saved me a lot of hassle. Just my opinion, they are just another way of completing a transaction satisfactorily. Everyone hang in there, you new members don't get scared off by a few lowlifes (could be your next door neighbor, you never know, that's why they are so good. If you knew who they are no one would deal with them) and enjoy the great people in the world, many of whom are right here on this forum! Happy trails!

 

[RustyRelicHunter]

No method of sending or accepting payment is perfect but using U.S. Postal Service money orders have several advantages; you can take them to your local post office where they will verify and cash them. I have seen people on this and other sites say they can't accept money orders or checks because they don't have a bank account and can't cash them but the USPS MO solves that problem.

There still is really no protection against sending someone a payment and then them not shipping your item. As several members have already stated you have to trust the seller so it helps to deal with long-standing forum members and those who others are willing to vouch for.