WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[TN_Guest1523]

No the game is not over and there is no checkmate until someone digs up the treasure to prove it. If you can take someone's word over 113 years ago as the truth then you are very gullible. There has got to more facts out there to make the Beale Papers real. We need three sources. Is that not what your self-proclaim doctrine teaches?

1. Beale's letters
2. Mr Morriss's testimony
3. Ward statement on the copyright
4. Hart confirming with with Ward in 1903 that it if fact was real
5. JLP's decoding of the Beale Ciphers to prove the Ciphers are if fact real

 

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[ECS]

So, the only person ( Hart ) who talk to Ward, the person that copyrighted The Beale Papers in 1885 to find out if they are real, is not proof ?
And how is finding out that the story was in fact real from Ward who was the person you say wrote the Beale Papers as a novel, not proof ?

Checkmate end of this thread !


View attachment 1322942

If you read further down in the HART PAPERS you will find:
"That Ward... created a suspicion that the story might HAVE BEEN MADE UP instead of being founded on fact".
So the Hart brothers were not totally convinced that the story was true.
Also Clayton Hart was married to Issac Otey's daughter, a 2nd cousin of Ward's wife, which makes the HART PAPERS (Beale Papers part II), still a part of that "all in the family" connection.

 

[ECS]

A simple chain of connections that relate to the creation of the Beale Papers:
Ward's grandfather fought a duel with Thomas Beale- notice the missing "J".
Ward's wife was born and raised 4 miles from Buford's.
Ward's uncle, by marriage, was Robert Morris.
Ward's great uncle was killed by Indians while inspecting gold and silver mines out west, 1882.
Ward had cousins that used Confederate ciphers during the 2nd year of the Confederate War.
Ward had cousins that started a mercantile business in St Louis, 1817.
Ward inherited his grandfather's library, which contained the journals of Pike, Carson, and Lewis & Clark.
Ward's father was co-owner of a bookstore, that sold E F Beale's journal, Poe's THE GOLD BUG, and Blair's "Writing In Ciphers".
Ward's cousin, who was sub-editor of the Lynchburg Virginian, and printer of the job pamphlet, was also a thespian, versed in Shakespeare, from which the line "game is worth the candle" originated.
While sub-editor, the Lynchburg Virginian ran the story of the discovered treasure of Kentucky farmer, Robert O Willis, found in a cave, that mirrors the Beale treasure of "gold, silver, and jewelry".

The above "chain of connections" are all FACT, and references can be found in the job pamphlet.
Other basic facts are those involved with the Beale Papers in 1885 who knew the truth behind the job pamphlet:
James Beverly Ward-copyright holder and publisher
Harriet Otey Buford Ward- Ward's wife
John William Sherman - Ward's cousin, printer of the job pamphlet, sub-editor of LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN
Charles W Button- owner of LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN, the only paper that ran adds for the BEALE PAPERS
Max Guggenheimer- old and valued friend mentioned in the pamphlet, sold copies at his Lynchburg store
AND:
There is the fact that Vincent A Witcher (former CSA Lt Col 34th Virginia Battalion), along with other descendants of those mentioned in the Beale Papers (Coles, Clay, Witcher) objected to their use in a dime novel, which caused the withdrawal of future sales of the job pamphlet (a fire is presented as the reason), and NO future copies were produced.
AN ADDITIONAL THOUGHT:
Ward's cousin, F C Hutter, a CSA Major, was well versed in Confederate codes, and was most likely involved in creating the DOI "solved" C2 cipher, but passed away before completion, which would explain the errors found in the numbering, and the totally unsolvable C1 & C3, which would have been pieced together by others involved with the Beale Papers.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

If you read further down in the HART PAPERS you will find:
"That Ward... created a suspicion that the story might HAVE BEEN MADE UP instead of being founded on fact".
So the Hart brothers were not totally convinced that the story was true.
Also Clayton Hart was married to Issac Otey's daughter, a 2nd cousin of Ward's wife, which makes the HART PAPERS (Beale Papers part II), still a part of that "all in the family" connection.

You can have suppression about what you want but he still asked Ward and Ward said they were real . That is proof from the person that copyrighted the Beale Papers from someone who was there in person talking to him as he stated they were real .

From Mr Morriss Deposition of the Beale adventure, to Mr Ward putting it into a Pamphlet form, to Mr Hart asking Mr Ward for confirmation as to the Beale Papers are real . The fact that most people in that area are related in one way or another if you go back far enough .

P.S. Here are the 4 parts that have Ward name in them .

 

[ECS]

So you accept the reading given by the medium in the HART PAPERS as fact?
Previously you have dismissed the HART PAPERS as fiction because of that medium reading, but now you accept it as truth because of the Ward mention?
Notice -"That Ward by accident..." the Hart's allude to the fact that James Beverly Ward was the "unknown author".
...and the first paragraph you posted above does feel similar to the description of Morriss in Ward's Beale Papers.
So the Hart Papers, fact or fiction, or a combination of both?

 

[TN_Guest1523]

So you accept the reading given by the medium in the HART PAPERS as fact?
Previously you have dismissed the HART PAPERS as fiction because of that medium reading, but now you accept it as truth because of the Ward mention?
Notice -"That Ward by accident..." the Hart's allude to the fact that James Beverly Ward was the "unknown author".
...and the first paragraph you posted above does feel similar to the description of Morriss in Ward's Beale Papers.
So the Hart Papers, fact or fiction, or a combination of both?

Just looking at were Mr Hart talks to Mr Ward not all that other crap !

 

[ECS]

Just looking at were Mr Hart talks to Mr Ward not all that other crap !

Please clarify. Are you saying that the part of the HART PAPERS where Hart met with Ward is TRUE, but the rest of the HART PAPERS are NOT TRUE?

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Please clarify. Are you saying that the part of the HART PAPERS where Hart met with Ward is TRUE, but the rest of the HART PAPERS are NOT TRUE?

Did you have a bad day or what Bro ?

Did Mr Hart talk to Mr Ward ? YES
Did Mr Ward tell Mr Hart the Papers were real ? YES
We have a witness confirming with Mr Ward the whole thing ( Beale Papers ) is real !

Nuff Said Bro !

 

[Old Silver]

Please clarify. Are you saying that the part of the HART PAPERS where Hart met with Ward is TRUE, but the rest of the HART PAPERS are NOT TRUE?

I ask the same question to you. You seem to believe a certain part of it, but not the rest, so are YOU saying the part about someone believing that Ward was the author is true, but the other parts are not true?

 

[ECS]

Its like using the novel HUCKLEBERRY FINN to prove that the novel TOM SAWYER is a true story.
As with the account of Beale meeting with Morriss is ONLY found in the BEALE PAPERS, the account of the Harts meeting with Ward and his son is found ONLY in the HART PAPERS.

 

[Old Silver]

Its like using the novel HUCKLEBERRY FINN to prove that the novel TOM SAWYER is a true story.
As with the account of Beale meeting with Morriss is ONLY found in the BEALE PAPERS, the account of the Harts meeting with Ward and his son is found ONLY in the HART PAPERS.

So why did you quote from the source you then put down?

 

[ECS]

Why not?

 

[ECS]

Just looking at were Mr Hart talks to Mr Ward not all that other crap !

The medium's account is an important part of the HART PAPERS.
So, is that the "other" of which you refer?
It does appear that you just "cherry pick" the facts that fit your agenda du jour.
If you accept the Hart's account of meeting Ward and son as fact, then you must accept as fact, the story of the medium concerning the Beale Party.
Is that not so as you are wont to say?

 

[jeff of pa]

Old Silver, ECS was not talking to You !

 

[TN_Guest1523]

The medium's account is an important part of the HART PAPERS.
So, is that the "other" of which you refer?
It does appear that you just "cherry pick" the facts that fit your agenda du jour.
If you accept the Hart's account of meeting Ward and son as fact, then you must accept as fact, the story of the medium concerning the Beale Party.
Is that not so as you are wont to say?

The medium's account is an important part of the HART PAPERS. I just see it as a failed attempt to find a treasure without doing the work needed on the cipher . As you guys say, not as I believe, if the Harts had not come along the Beale Papers would have been lost . So we have The Hart Papers, as I see it just a documentary of two people that were attempting to find a treasure . Looks like they had the right idea to ask Ward to confirm the whole as a true history of what took place to the best of his knowledge . But at some point gave up on the ciphers and were looking for a Easy Money way to find the treasure .

To me all that spooky spiritual satanic crap is about the same, just crap ! But you can learn from them yet, they did look at this as a true history of Beale and his associates . So lets not throw out the Baby with the tub water, we can glean from The Hart Papers without sucking up the corrupt data !

 

[ECS]

Still, the source of the Beale Party "history" given in the HART PAPERS must be considered, because, as with the "letters" of Beale in Ward's pamphlet, it forms the basis of the Hart story.
If you discount it as "spooky spiritual satanic crap" then you make the entire work suspect.

 

[bigscoop]

When one weighs the various accounts and various details regarding the Beale papers then it becomes obvious that there exist some deceptive elements. For instance, why did Ward's daughter feel that her father had written the narration? This most certainly conflicts with what Ward allegedly told Hart. So why then did Ward's own daughter feel that her father had written the tale? This is just one example of how the various accounts and details often clash. In the end there are few constants in all of this secondhand information so I think it wise to discard all of it beyond simple interesting sidebars rather then to pick and choose from these conflicts out of convenience.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Still, the source of the Beale Party "history" given in the HART PAPERS must be considered, because, as with the "letters" of Beale in Ward's pamphlet, it forms the basis of the Hart story.
If you discount it as "spooky spiritual satanic crap" then you make the entire work suspect.

Just a failed attempt at finding the treasure without doing the work of the ciphers . Most everyone doing this today is just searching for a nedle in the haystack .
You must do the work ! If you can learn from others failed attempts you are ahead of the game .

Seems what they did do is to confirm the whole thing with Mr Ward as true to the best of his knowledge .

 

[TN_Guest1523]

When one weighs the various accounts and various details regarding the Beale papers then it becomes obvious that there exist some deceptive elements. For instance, why did Ward's daughter feel that her father had written the narration? This most certainly conflicts with what Ward allegedly told Hart. So why then did Ward's own daughter feel that her father had written the tale? This is just one example of how the various accounts and details often clash. In the end there are few constants in all of this secondhand information so I think it wise to discard all of it beyond simple interesting sidebars rather then to pick and choose from these conflicts out of convenience.

We do not have access to the story of his daughter, just hearsay of what was said . He did wright the pamphlet and put the text into it final form, if she said anything I'm sure that is what she was referring to .

It would be nice to see the news story, but no one has access to it that I have seen .

 

[ECS]

Then there is John William Sherman's boss at the Lynchburg Virginian newspaper, Charles W Button, who stated that Sherman was the Beale Papers author.