WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[Old Silver]

Laffitte is an interesting character and his mysterious ability to stay out of trouble with authorities and to always be on the front lines of important events only adds to the mysteries of his known involvement with the French refugees. We don't believe he was directly attached to the refugees though he certainly provided them aid. There is also mystery surrounding his involvement with the U.S. and other high ranking citizens of the era who were likewise involved with the refugees and U.S. politics. Through the slave trade there is also evidence to suggest that he was intimate with Lynchburg/Bedford region. There is also evidence suggesting that several people from the Lynchburg/Bedford region were in attendance at Galveston Island and Bolivar. And the real kicker, many of these people were in Richmond in 1829 & 1830 concluding "important business affairs". We also know several of these same French interest were in Richmond in 1861 through 1863.

As for Beale, personally, at this point I think as far as the pamphlet is concerned, the name was perhaps an alias. If he had truly existed he would have been found by now. And I've said this many times before....the duel between Risque and Beale was not over a woman, though that may have been used as a publicly accepted excuse. Politically, there were two distinct factions and causes at work in the region and I think that duel was the result of the growing friction between them.

This growing friction being related to the French/American friction brought about by Napoleon?

 

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[releventchair]

By the way, thanks Scoop for inspiring interest in the goings on at the time. Your info has been a very large part of it.
Intelligence has multiple meanings, but the Lafitte's had them all covered as well as pre established trade routes and distribution, combined with support from multiple parties, some sincere, making their potential involvement in deals a great possibility.

 

[bigscoop]

This growing friction being related to the French/American friction brought about by Napoleon?

Have you ever wondered why so many landmarks in this country are named after Napoleon? Ever wondered why so many Americans who survived in the era named their children after Napoleon? The Buford family even did this, Napoleon Bonaparte Buford and Sidney Algernon Bufurd, Algernon in reference to a famous Frenchmen and the principles he supported. History eventually painted Napoleon as a tyrant but he wasn't always painted that way, a huge amount of support for him in this country during the era. To many folks and influential politicians in the era he was seen as a savior and a hero. This same sentiment being felt all over the world.

The politics of the era changed dramatically and were subject to continued to change, the U.S. even launching extensive campaigns to squelch some of the existing Bonapartism that was still alive and well after the Adams Onis Treaty. One of the the biggest displays being the parade of Lafayette. And the Monroe Doctrine, no doubt this was also aimed at the French who were still trying to colonize in the U.S.

Local lore refuses to pay any mind to any of this even though this Napoleanic support was obvious within many of the residences of the era, such as a the Bufords, and others. This was the basis of the political friction that existed, the exact path of this country's cause still being undecided. At the time of the Louisiana Purchase Britain was still threatening, Spain was threatening to form alliance with them, Napoleon, like it or not, was our only ally and he was actively taking the fight to the enemy. Above all else, he knew how important that Louisiana territory was to the U.S. and his own furture.

 

[Old Silver]

We know Lafitte had lots of money/treasure. He was not called a privateer for nothing.

His quotes: " I gave instructions to the few inhabitants not to reveal the places where my merchandise from our captures was hidden."

" I am said to have silver and gold hidden in the sandy shores of all the islands along the Gulf coast. ... It is true. There are some caches in places, but I do not have the least idea of the exact
locations... I indeed have many valuable articles near New Orleans, buried in some little estuary, tucked away, and unknown by everybody but me."

 

[Old Silver]

Have you ever wondered why so many landmarks in this country are named after Napoleon? Ever wondered why so many Americans who survived in the era named their children after Napoleon? The Buford family even did this, Napoleon Bonaparte Buford and Sidney Algernon Bufurd, Algernon in reference to a famous Frenchmen and the principles he supported. History eventually painted Napoleon as a tyrant but he wasn't always painted that way, a huge amount of support for him in this country during the era. To many folks and influential politicians in the era he was seen as a savior and a hero. This same sentiment being felt all over the world.

The politics of the era changed dramatically and were subject to continued to change, the U.S. even launching extensive campaigns to squelch some of the existing Bonapartism that was still alive and well after the Adams Onis Treaty. One of the the biggest displays being the parade of Lafayette. And the Monroe Doctrine, no doubt this was also aimed at the French who were still trying to colonize in the U.S.

Local lore refuses to pay any mind to any of this even though this Napoleanic support was obvious within many of the residences of the era, such as a the Bufords, and others. This was the basis of the political friction that existed, the exact path of this country's cause still being undecided. At the time of the Louisiana Purchase Britain was still threatening, Spain was threatening to form alliance with them, Napoleon, like it or not, was our only ally and he was actively taking the fight to the enemy. Above all else, he knew how important that Louisiana territory was to the U.S. and his own furture.

This is what I was getting at. Wasn't the man who fought the Duel with Risqué named Thomas Beale?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

This is what I was getting at. Wasn't the man who fought the Duel with Risqué named Thomas Beale?

Thomas Beale, Sr.

 

[bigscoop]

This is what I was getting at. Wasn't the man who fought the Duel with Risqué named Thomas Beale?

Yep. This Thomas Beale also went to New Orleans. There was also a Thomas Beale aboard one of the transport vessles for the refugees. Stephen Girard had a Beale in his employee who was also named Beale, this man only being listed as a runner. A runner was a term used to described an individual who carried important business transactions and information. Girard, of course, was deeply involved with the refugees.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

War of 1812... Thomas Beale, Sr. RIFLES; Paschal Buford ARTILLERY; Battle of New Orleans.

 

[Old Silver]

Yep. This Thomas Beale also went to New Orleans. There was also a Thomas Beale aboard one of the transport vessles for the refugees. Stephen Girard had a Beale in his employee who was also named Beale, this man only being listed as a runner. A runner was a term used to described an individual who carried important business transactions and information. Girard, of course, was deeply involved with the refugees.

So why couldn't one of these Thomas Beales be the one in the Beale papers? One had a direct connection, and the other an indirect connection to the French in New Orleans.

 

[bigscoop]

So why couldn't one of these Thomas Beales be the one in the Beale papers? One had a direct connection, and the other an indirect connection to the French in New Orleans.

Perhaps, but it's very doubtful that anything exist to prove it. If it does exist then it's likely buried very deep in mountains of private papers, which is why Tat and I spend so much time trying to locate these collections, even the foreign collections. If the Beale Papers were in connection to any true event then that smoking gun will be there someplace. But where? Obviously it's not in the easily accessed collections/records. There are still mountains of paper collections that haven't even been gone through yet, they just sit in boxes under various file numbers. Pretty amazing just how much unknown content still exist today. And there are private collections that can't even be accessed or located, many of these still holding unknown content. You're just not going to access many of them on the internet.

 

[bigscoop]

In helping to explain the political picture during the effected era let me pose this question; if the U.S. would have openly allied themselves with Napoleon then who would have had the upper hand during the Civil war, and would that unrest have come earlier? I think as you maul this over you'll get a better feel for the darker political friction here in the U.S. during the effected era. There were two distinct political factions in France, just as there are two distinct political factions here in the US today. At the time Napoleon and his policies ruled France but who did we ultimately support? Now advance to the civil war and ask yourself who was in power in France at the time and which side of the US conflict they supported? Once you evaluate this and understand it you'll have firm grasp on all the mechanics that were at work her in the US.

 

[Old Silver]

In helping to explain the political picture during the effected era let me pose this question; if the U.S. would have openly allied themselves with Napoleon then who would have had the upper hand during the Civil war, and would that unrest have come earlier? I think as you maul this over you'll get a better feel for the darker political friction here in the U.S. during the effected era. There were two distinct political factions in France, just as there are two distinct political factions here in the US today. At the time Napoleon and his policies ruled France but who did we ultimately support? Now advance to the civil war and ask yourself who was in power in France at the time and which side of the US conflict they supported? Once you evaluate this and understand it you'll have firm grasp on all the mechanics that were at work her in the US.

What I read says Napoleon (3) was sympathetic to the southern cause. I think you're somehow referring to slavery here, right?

 

[ECS]

Do you even know who was in Richmond during the second year of the confederate war?

CSA Sec of State,Judah P Benjamin,whose KGC associate from the days of 1857 Pickwick Club KGC meetings in New Orleans,John Slidel,had secured a loan from the Rothchilds Bank in France for the Confederate government.Slidel had a in with Rothchild Bank in his nephew in law,August Belmont,who was a Rothchild banker in New Orleans.
Benjamin also ran the CSA "secret service",and was well versed in codes and ciphers,including the Vigenere Tableau,or the Vicksburg Code as the Confederates called it,Persher codes,book and dictionary codes.Benjamin gave his personal copy of Vattles LAW OF NATIONS,which was used as a Confederate book code,to CSA Major E S Hutter,April 1865 in Danville,Virginia,when the remaining Confederate treasury was also in Danville after the flight from Richmond.
The writers,copyright holder,and publisher of the 1885 Beale were much closer to the events of the Civil War than to Adams-Onis,the Louisana Purchase,the War of 1812,or Jean LaFitte.

 

[bigscoop]

What I read says Napoleon was sympathetic to the southern cause. I think you're somehow referring to slavery here, right?

Don't take the question too literally, but this is the basic notion, that a direct and open alliance with Napoleon would have strengthened the south. As for slavery, that's really tricky ground. What really would have been put at steak is principle differences and a fear of politically fracturing the country further. Remember, those in power at the time were still trying to build a country, the exact boundaries in the west still uncertain. So it was all very complicated.

 

[ECS]

... Stephen Girard had a Beale in his employee who was also named Beale, this man only being listed as a runner. A runner was a term used to described an individual who carried important business transactions and information. Girard, of course, was deeply involved with the refugees.

It should also be noted,that while Stephen Girard loaned the US money for the War of 1812,Stephen Girard made his fortune in the Chinese opium trade,shipping Applachian ginseng to China,and importing opium to the US.

 

[Old Silver]

Don't take the question too literally, but this is the basic notion, that a direct and open alliance with Napoleon would have strengthened the south. As for slavery, that's really tricky ground. What really would have been put at steak is principle differences and a fear of politically fracturing the country further. Remember, those in power at the time were still trying to build a country, the exact boundaries in the west still uncertain. So it was all very complicated.

Interesting indeed.

 

[bigscoop]

It should also be noted,that while Stephen Girard loaded the US money for the War of 1812,Stephen Girard made his fortune in the Chinese opium trade,shipping Applachian ginseng to China,and importing opium to the US.

Girard had many, many interest.

 

[bigscoop]

What I find so interesting in the Beale Papers is that whoever wrote it had a great deal of knowledge about certain things. Ward, Sherman, Hutter,....very doubtful they could have written the story.

Most likely Ward was in fact, just the agent.

[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]"Amongst his guests and devoted personal friends Jackson, Clay, Coles, Witcher, Chief Justice Marshall, and a host of others scarcely less distinguished, might be enumerated. But it was not the wealthy and distinguished alone who appreciated Mr. Morriss; the poor and lowly had blessings for the man who sympathized with their misfortunes, and was ever ready to relieve their distress."[/FONT]

I think these names were entered into the story with purpose as well, though I still have to find more on Witcher and take a closer look at him before I can be sure of that. One other thing here, you would really enjoy learning of the long list of names that were regular guest at Joseph Bonaparte's estate. In all of these names most people don't recognize that Adams was also a favored guest.

 

[bigscoop]

bigscoop, You are doing the very thing you so often post about-------You ignore facts and come up with ideas from historical known facts. You say Thomas J. Beale does not exist and no one has found him yet-------well I have found over 18 Thomas Beale's and two of them foot the bill of the Job Print Pamphlet---that being TJB Sr and TJB Jr. of Botetourt County. Then you take an historical fact about James Beverly Risque and his duel with Thomas J. Beale out of historical fact by changing it to what you believe the duel was over and not exactly what history says the duel was about by past downed historians. Then you say the duel was over two growing factions in the area to support your French Connections. You can change the Beale Mystery any way you want to but if you do not go by the story given then forget about finding anything but history and no treasure.

Franklin, you deal in local lore and myth and call it fact. I don't. Nor do I take the word of a clairvoyant and ghost as fact. You do. End of story. Not even going to enter into that whole thing with you again. Cheers!

 

[ECS]

So why couldn't one of these Thomas Beales be the one in the Beale papers? One had a direct connection, and the other an indirect connection to the French in New Orleans.

Thomas Beale Sr died Sept 1820 in New Orleans
Thomas Beale Jr died Oct 1823 in New Orleans