Wagon Train Attacked by Indians (1858)

[King Canslaw]

This is where I get suspicious and have to ask a logistics question. When attacked by Indians, why further diminish your defensive power by tasking people to bury your gold and silver? If you win the battle, you still have it. If you lose the battle, it doesn't matter. Plus, the manpower needed to bury the gold and silver increases proportionally to how much gold and silver there is. And if the Indians are attacking in the desert near Las Vegas, wouldn't they see the people who are digging the hole for the gold and silver, kill them after the battle and investigate the hole?

I'm not saying it didn't happen. I just try to put myself in that situation and reason out what I would do. And with, "Don't get dead" being the primary rule I would either fight if I thought I could win, or cut the gold and silver loose and hightail it out of there if I thought I could get away. As a last resort you fight to the death if your chances are slim, but slightly better than escaping. The last thing I would do it lower my chances of winning or escaping even further by expending manpower to bury gold and silver.

One other thing to consider is what was the outcome of the Indian attack? If the Mormons won, chances are they did the Jen Psaki thing and circled back at some point to retrieve the cache. If the Mormons were wiped out and no one survived, there is still a chance the cache is still there if it existed and was buried. But if even one Mormon survived, we circle back to the circle back thing.

I lick your lojic hear. I donut wanna say this didnt not happen but you make alot, a hole lot of cents.

 

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[boogeyman]

We have no idea what happen or how the Mormons reacted, just a story handed down from generations. If I figure out the location of the attack, I'll leave no stone unturned and hit every natural landmark with the MD. Coming up short with internet searches related to this event, next step, scouring the massive 240,000 sqft public library in Salt Lake City.

As for the mob in Las Vegas, they didn't exist here in 1858.

I actually like that there is very little info regarding this attack, it make for betting odds finding something at the site. I would be thrilled to find ferrous artifacts as well.

Don't limit yourself to only area papers! You'd be amazed how much stuff isn't mentioned locally but turns up in San Francisco papers. (Hint hint)

 

[MiddenMonster]

How old are you son?

That's a very odd question. Are you saying that the reasons you believe these artifacts are from the Indian attack on the Mormons are dependent on my age?

 

[boogeyman]

That's a very odd question. Are you saying that the reasons you believe these artifacts are from the Indian attack on the Mormons are dependent on my age?

I don't get that either hmmmmm

 

[boogeyman]

I lick your lojic hear. I donut wanna say this didnt not happen but you make alot, a hole lot of cents.

Huh!?!

 

[Rooster 777]

ok I have been reading these posts, and now is the time for the truth. In the mid 90's, I read the same story. I am a professional treasure FINDER from Fla. and the Caribbean. I lived in LV at the time, and decided to look this up. I traced the story to the Red Rock Canyon area west of LV.
I found the burned wagons in the desert slightly west of the canyon. I searched the area with no other find. BUT, I told a neighbor about the story, and guest what? He told me that a lady friend of his found a gold Mormon coin very near to where i found the wagons. That area is now a park.

I've been on vacation and just now seeing these additional posts. I live at the mouth of Red Rock Canyon, there would be no reason for a wagon train to enter Red Rock as its essentially a cul-de-sac in this valley. If the wagon train was on their way to Southern California, that would clearly be a waste of time.

 

[MiddenMonster]

I live at the mouth of Red Rock Canyon, there would be no reason for a wagon train to enter Red Rock as its essentially a cul-de-sac in this valley.

Just curious, but would this be the same thing as a "box canyon"?

 

[Rooster 777]

Just curious, but would this be the same thing as a "box canyon"?

You are probably referring to Ice Box Canyon which is in Red Rock. It's a difficult hike through a narrow canyon, it doesn't get much light which keeps it cool, hence it's name.

 

[MiddenMonster]

You are probably referring to Ice Box Canyon which is in Red Rock. It's a difficult hike through a narrow canyon, it doesn't get much light which keeps it cool, hence it's name.

Actually I was thinking about the term "box canyon" in the general sense, based on your use of the term cul-de-sac. I remember reading about a plane crash back in the 1970's that killed a college sports team after flying into a box canyon and smacking into the side of a mountain when they lost room to navigate. The canyon you describe sounds like a similar setup to the plane crash situation, which would mean that if the Mormons did go into Red Rock Canyon they made a serious tactical error.

 

[Rooster 777]

Actually I was thinking about the term "box canyon" in the general sense, based on your use of the term cul-de-sac. I remember reading about a plane crash back in the 1970's that killed a college sports team after flying into a box canyon and smacking into the side of a mountain when they lost room to navigate. The canyon you describe sounds like a similar setup to the plane crash situation, which would mean that if the Mormons did go into Red Rock Canyon they made a serious tactical error.

If you knew this valley the way I do, you would understand how difficult it would be to make that type of navigational error. If you are traveling from Utah, heading to Southern California, you would be moving from North to South at the lowest part of the valley, this would be close to where the Las Vegas strip is located today. Red Rock Canyon is at the Western rim of this valley at a much higher elevation with 8,000 ft mountains at the back of the canyon, it would be like running into a wall. I also find it hard to believe that a wagon train, in 1858 could even make it into Red Rock canyon. That guys story makes zero sense to me.

 

[King Canslaw]

Huh!?!

i sad you make cents wit what ya sad, a hole lotta cents.i agree withya.

 

[boogeyman]

Huh

 

[Rooster 777]

Come on guys, I'm hoping someone can add value to this thread, please don't drink and type.

 

[Dirt1955]

Rooster, you hit on the only good point earlier...research. For this story,
you need to go to the source...the Mormon church. Find someone connected to the church archives, willing to confirm the story. There are a ton of treasure hunters from Utah, seek them out. They all have connections. Also, I have gotten invaluable information from local historical societies. Both their archives and personal testimony from employees. The Mormon church has the largest database for geneology in the world. If there was a wagon train commisioned by Brigham Young, the men who saddled up had names, families, and were brought back to Utah for burial. Search for deaths at the date you are targeting. Look up the names in the database, and keep digging.
There was an established trail between Salt Lake and San Bernadino that the Mormons pioneered. The wagon train would have stayed on that route, they needed water for horses, mules. Check publications for pioneer trails during time frame. lastly, indians had no use for gold. They wanted mules, horses, and rifles. As stated earlier, the gold was probally abandoned, maybe concealed in a ravine or rocks, but not buried. Easier to retrieve for anyone who survived. Good luck and hope you enjoy the hunt!
Dirt

 

[Rooster 777]

Rooster, you hit on the only good point earlier...research. For this story,
you need to go to the source...the Mormon church. Find someone connected to the church archives, willing to confirm the story. There are a ton of treasure hunters from Utah, seek them out. They all have connections. Also, I have gotten invaluable information from local historical societies. Both their archives and personal testimony from employees. The Mormon church has the largest database for geneology in the world. If there was a wagon train commisioned by Brigham Young, the men who saddled up had names, families, and were brought back to Utah for burial. Search for deaths at the date you are targeting. Look up the names in the database, and keep digging.
There was an established trail between Salt Lake and San Bernadino that the Mormons pioneered. The wagon train would have stayed on that route, they needed water for horses, mules. Check publications for pioneer trails during time frame. lastly, indians had no use for gold. They wanted mules, horses, and rifles. As stated earlier, the gold was probally abandoned, maybe concealed in a ravine or rocks, but not buried. Easier to retrieve for anyone who survived. Good luck and hope you enjoy the hunt!
Dirt

Great points! It all takes time, will eventually get to Salt Lake. Thanks!

 

[cw0909]

Rooster, I looked into the story some, didnt look at all of the material, just a few scans of some of it
here are the links you can do more research

went to the online BYU library, under tab, digital materials

search word gold
Showing Records: 1 - 10 of 96

Records | BYU Library - Special Collections

archives.lib.byu.edu

Utah Expedition
Showing Records: 1 - 10 of 32

Records | BYU Library - Special Collections

archives.lib.byu.edu

some wiki history on the Utah war/Utah Expedition

Utah War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

forgot one
73 results containing “the phrase "Massacre"
years,1858-1858 State, California

Search Results « Chronicling America « Library of Congress

Search America's historic newspaper pages from 1756-1963 or use the U.S. Newspaper Directory to find information about American newspapers published between 1690-present.

chroniclingamerica.loc.gov

 

[Rooster 777]

Rooster, I looked into the story some, didnt look at all of the material, just a few scans of some of it
here are the links you can do more research

went to the online BYU library, under tab, digital materials

search word gold
Showing Records: 1 - 10 of 96

Records | BYU Library - Special Collections

archives.lib.byu.edu

Utah Expedition
Showing Records: 1 - 10 of 32

Records | BYU Library - Special Collections

archives.lib.byu.edu

some wiki history on the Utah war/Utah Expedition

Utah War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

forgot one
73 results containing “the phrase "Massacre"
years,1858-1858 State, California

Search Results « Chronicling America « Library of Congress

Search America's historic newspaper pages from 1756-1963 or use the U.S. Newspaper Directory to find information about American newspapers published between 1690-present.

chroniclingamerica.loc.gov

Just got home to the family, will look at all the links tonight! Thanks a bunch, you're awesome!

 

[Tanneyhill]

I'm still looking for the Mexican gold that Emperor Maximilian sent north into the States so it wouldn't fall into the hands of his enemies. Nobody really knows what happened to the gold of Imperial Mexico after the government collapsed, some think it was found by Indians and hidden in caves but then the US government found it and turned the land into a bombing range so no civilians could ever venture to find any more secret caches the government might have missed.

Could that be the billions in gold bars extracted from Victorio Peak by the US military on behalf of the CIA & the sitting US President? It is near the US white sands missile range & national park? Assuming that Maximilian moved Mexican Treasury loot. I doubt his personal wealth amounted to what was found at Victorio Peak thereby making the Victorio Peak loot less likely to be Maximilian. But just some interesting connections. Could also be Church wealth moved across the border during those tumultuous times as Benito Juarez's reforms prevented the Church from owning property in Mexico. What would you do if you were responsible for Church wealth and afraid of confiscation? Move it across the border into AZ, NM, TX and CA or parts of Central America perhaps? 🤔

Gold! The Mystery of the $30 Billion Treasure

I have Not been Following this One, So I do not know if it's Here already. You are about to read a story that strains the imagination. It is about the disappearance of a fortune of up to $30 billion in gold bullion. When it was first presented as a “tip” to a Freedom Magazine reporter in El...

www.treasurenet.com

 

[UnderMiner]

Could that be the billions in gold bars extracted from Victorio Peak by the US military on behalf of CIA & the sitting US President? It is near the US white sands missile range & national park?

Gold! The Mystery of the $30 Billion Treasure

I have Not been Following this One, So I do not know if it's Here already. You are about to read a story that strains the imagination. It is about the disappearance of a fortune of up to $30 billion in gold bullion. When it was first presented as a “tip” to a Freedom Magazine reporter in El...

www.treasurenet.com

I believe so, I was really into this particular treasure story long ago, but haven't really looked into it for a long time now. If I'm not mistaken it is said that in the waning day's of Maximilian's grasp on power, after the French withdrew their troops back to Europe, he sent several wagons full of Mexican treasure North across the Rio Grande under the protection of several Ex-Confederate soldiers. (Many Confederates fled south of the Rio Grand after they lost the war, some even founded towns in South America where they continued their tradition of having slave-run plantations well into the 1880's, but I digress.)

Sympathetic to the idea of a Euro-centric Mexico, they were tasked with safeguarding the gold. If there was a Knights of the Golden Circle connection between Imperial Mexico and the scattered remnants of the collapsed Confederacy in 1867 I wouldn't be surprised. Perhaps the Emperor and the Confederate holdouts dreamed of using the funds to re-ignite the war, to transform both the US South and Mexico into one nation or a Confederacy of nations.

Whatever their plan was it didn't get far. It is said the Confederate wagons were attacked by Natives who took all the gold and hid it in the caves of the mountains, then many years later, the US government caught wind of it, turned the area around the mountains into a bombing range, and extracted all the loot, or so this version of the story goes.

I was very fascinated by this story many years ago and bought many books on the history of Imperial Mexico, but now I don't remember everything too well.

Here is my Imperial Mexican Peso from 1867, it was the last and lowest mintage of the silver coins produced under Maximilian if I recall correctly. The gold 1867 Imperial Mexican 20 Peso, which sported the same face and reverse as the silver 1 peso, only had a mintage of 3,500 or so. You can sometimes find 1866 Imperial Mexican 20 pesos for sale, but rarely the 1867. I imagine alot of the 1867 gold pesos were on the doomed wagons that made it to the US, or perhaps, there were alot more minted than we think and the US government melted them down.

 

[eyemustdigtreasure]

Someone just brought this to my attention. In March of 1858, Brigham Young received word that the U.S. Cavalry, commanded by General Albert Sidney Johnston was en route to invade Salt Lake City. Young loaded-up all the Mormon gold and silver to escape the government headed for San Bernardino, CA. Young's wagon train full of gold and silver was attacked by Indians somewhere near Las Vegas. I'm guessing that some of the Mormons hastily buried some of the bullion in the vicinity of the attack. I'm trying to figure out where this attack took place, does anyone have any info on this event? Thanks!

Well, here is a.Mormon gold coin, so at least this one didn’t get Stashed…! 👍